Where are all the 964 lovers?
Discussion
Henry will know much more about ruining costs than me but based on my findings from the other forums (Yahoo 964 group and Rennlist) and my own experiences maintenance costs for a fairly sorted 964 (i.e. minimal oil leaks and a fairly recent clutch) seem to be about £1500-£2000 a year.
Henry has hit the nail on the head regarding prices, if like me you can work on them on your own prices to maintain are barely higher than any other car, £500 ish a year, but £2000-£2500 a year seem sensible for dealer servicing.
Only weak spot on the cars that annoys me is the front (and if later 964 c2 or any C4 rear) calipers, after time the stainless pad plates get pushed away from the alloy by corrosion, however if its already been done, or if you don't mind getting it sorted its a minor irritation and certainly doesn't come back again for a long time.
Only weak spot on the cars that annoys me is the front (and if later 964 c2 or any C4 rear) calipers, after time the stainless pad plates get pushed away from the alloy by corrosion, however if its already been done, or if you don't mind getting it sorted its a minor irritation and certainly doesn't come back again for a long time.
magic torch said:
You're all bad people, I'm going to look at one tomorrow...
Sorry. However it gets worse once you buy. Its like a drug addiction. hence you will have to endure the following 7 ages of Porsche ownership.
1. You know its wrong but you still want one. The longer this inner battle goes on the worse it get latter.
2. You finally sample the produce. OH WOW!! Immediate high - how can you live without it, you must have one - now hooked.
3. You try lots of product and decide on the one you want (once you have had the product inspected and know it will not kill you). You justify to yourself that its only money, you can't take it with you, your wife does not really need new shoes, etc and that you will be able kick the habit anytime.
4. You buy and start suffering strange symptoms including: Taking the long way home, locking the car after a run - walking away, but then stopping to look at the car again, looking at the car in shop windows, finding tunnels on the way home, opening the window and hitting the loud peddle, just to hear the sound, you have a permant stupid grin on your face everytime you get in to or out of the car, checking the oil every weekend, and spending shit loads of money on Zymo. Mobil One, etc, etc. - an addict for life.
5. After a few weeks/months you find your car NEEDS stuff like aero mirrors, lowered springs, 17" wheels, cup-pipe, strut brace, etc. Not expensive or actually required, but needed all the same!! You now start to obsess about your car.
6. Its now starts getting really bad. How can you get more out of the product - a bit like free-basing or main lining and you need to find a new pusher like 9M, GT One, RUF, etc who can deliver a bigger hit, i.e. more Power, better brakes and handling. This is the most dangerous phase, especially for your wallet and health. You will actually look forward to taking your car in for servicing or getting new tires. Even the MOT becomes an important event in your life as it might also provide an excuse to spend more on the product.
7) The final phase - at this point all hope is lost - you start suffering withdrawal if the weather has been bad and you do not get to really drive the car for a couple of weeks. You also start thinking that one P car is NOT enough and you really need 2 - one for work and one for the high days and holidays. At this point you just have to surrender yourself completely and blow the kids college funds - after all they can have your Porsche when you croke. You will start looking at rarer and rarer machines, it will start with a 964RS, then perhaps a 964Turbo before moving to 964 Cup Cars, 3.6 Turbos and RSR - none of which you can afford - or can you??
This sickness will remain for the rest of your life, however providing you have a means to support your habbit WTF.
Or you can "just say NO!!"
Hope this cautionary tale helps.
Andy
meno-porsche said:
1)...2...)...3)...4)...5)...6)...
7) The final phase - at this point all hope is lost - you start suffering withdrawal if the weather has been bad and you do not get to really drive the car for a couple of weeks. You also start thinking that one P car is NOT enough and you really need 2 - one for work and one for the high days and holidays. At this point you just have to surrender yourself completely and blow the kids college funds - after all they can have your Porsche when you croke. You will start looking at rarer and rarer machines, it will start with a 964RS, then perhaps a 964Turbo before moving to 964 Cup Cars, 3.6 Turbos and RSR - none of which you can afford - or can you??
oh my god. all hope is lost
francisb said:
meno-porsche said:
1)...2...)...3)...4)...5)...6)...
7) The final phase - at this point all hope is lost - you start suffering withdrawal if the weather has been bad and you do not get to really drive the car for a couple of weeks. You also start thinking that one P car is NOT enough and you really need 2 - one for work and one for the high days and holidays. At this point you just have to surrender yourself completely and blow the kids college funds - after all they can have your Porsche when you croke. You will start looking at rarer and rarer machines, it will start with a 964RS, then perhaps a 964Turbo before moving to 964 Cup Cars, 3.6 Turbos and RSR - none of which you can afford - or can you??
oh my god. all hope is lost
I think you have managed to go to stage 10..fairly quickly
The 964 is the absolute essence of all (non-Turbo'd) 911's IMO. A Classicly shaped, lightweight thoroughbred demanding of a learned driving style and ongoing care and attention. I am transfixed by mine (1990 C2). The reason you're finding it hard to get a good one is because us lot won't sell 'em I'm afraid!!.
Good luck anyhoo!!Keep looking, something will show up!
Good luck anyhoo!!
Keep looking, something will show up! Edited by kibosh on Monday 27th November 12:57
Sounds very familar. I have been through these 7 stages twice and no doubt will go through them again if the opportunity arises. Problem is the stable does need extended to house the new buys!
Pick wisely and it will be cheaper experience than changing your ford/vauxhall every 2 years or so.
Pick wisely and it will be cheaper experience than changing your ford/vauxhall every 2 years or so.
wildoliver said:
Well fuel is good, i average about 30 to the gallon on all sorts of roads.
Depreciation is nothing anyway as they are at bottom of market at the mo.
Running costs, tyres aren't cheap, £100 a corner.
Oil change and service every 5K, I do my own but dealer would be £300? (I really dont know)
I had to do my clutch shortly after getting it, £400 job.
Not heavy on brakes, clutch or any other component really, just make sure you buy a good one.
Depreciation is nothing anyway as they are at bottom of market at the mo.
Running costs, tyres aren't cheap, £100 a corner.
Oil change and service every 5K, I do my own but dealer would be £300? (I really dont know)
I had to do my clutch shortly after getting it, £400 job.
Not heavy on brakes, clutch or any other component really, just make sure you buy a good one.
Did you fit the clutch yourself or fit a recon on, as IIRC the correct clutch kit is about £300 and then it needs fitting which isnt a 1 hour job??
Edited by POORCARDEALER on Monday 27th November 12:18
I've had my 964 for coming up to 3 years now.
At no time in that period have I wanted to change or sell it, which given my short attention span and penchant for changing cars every 18 months is a miracle.
Every time I open the garage door I smile.
It looks great, the last of the frog eye Porkers without the fussiness of the impact bumpers.
It sounds abso-fecking-lutely fabulous I fitted the fab speed "open" airbox so the induction noise at circa 5,000 rpm has you laughing your head off. When you park it up after thrashing the old girl she sits there tinking and pinging as she cools down.
It smells like petrol and hot oil. It probably shouldn't quite so much and I know there is a cheap and easy filler neck fix but feck it - I like it.
What is more given the fact that she's worth circa 12K and is basically fully depreciated you can drive her without worrying about mileage (108K miles and climbing).
I have her looked after at JZ Machtech who know their stuff and I don't mind paying the bills as the depreciation isn't killing me. In three years she has never failed to fire up first time and has never "broken".
To henry's point about 2.5 K per annum to keep them on the road I've spent circa 7 in three years. Comes out to 2.75K per annum, but I have had to stump up some "big" bills in that time to get some basics right.
I took the big hit on clutch, brakes, dampers and wishbones. Knowing what i know now I'd buy off a proker nutter with a thick pad of recent invoices and these would probably have all be squared away in the last five years or so - Nevermind.
This is what I spent-
350 01-Mar-04 Annual service, MOT
3,000 01-Oct-04 Clutch, rear shocks, starter motor, flywheel, geometry
500 12-Dec-04 Tyres
350 01-Mar-05 Annual service, MOT
1,700 15-Aug-05 Back Discs and front wishbones
1,400 01-Mar-05 24K service, MOT, front discs.
200 08-Jul-06 Pre track day fettling
Buy the car.
At no time in that period have I wanted to change or sell it, which given my short attention span and penchant for changing cars every 18 months is a miracle.
Every time I open the garage door I smile.
It looks great, the last of the frog eye Porkers without the fussiness of the impact bumpers.
It sounds abso-fecking-lutely fabulous I fitted the fab speed "open" airbox so the induction noise at circa 5,000 rpm has you laughing your head off. When you park it up after thrashing the old girl she sits there tinking and pinging as she cools down.
It smells like petrol and hot oil. It probably shouldn't quite so much and I know there is a cheap and easy filler neck fix but feck it - I like it.
What is more given the fact that she's worth circa 12K and is basically fully depreciated you can drive her without worrying about mileage (108K miles and climbing).
I have her looked after at JZ Machtech who know their stuff and I don't mind paying the bills as the depreciation isn't killing me. In three years she has never failed to fire up first time and has never "broken".
To henry's point about 2.5 K per annum to keep them on the road I've spent circa 7 in three years. Comes out to 2.75K per annum, but I have had to stump up some "big" bills in that time to get some basics right.
I took the big hit on clutch, brakes, dampers and wishbones. Knowing what i know now I'd buy off a proker nutter with a thick pad of recent invoices and these would probably have all be squared away in the last five years or so - Nevermind.
This is what I spent-
350 01-Mar-04 Annual service, MOT
3,000 01-Oct-04 Clutch, rear shocks, starter motor, flywheel, geometry
500 12-Dec-04 Tyres
350 01-Mar-05 Annual service, MOT
1,700 15-Aug-05 Back Discs and front wishbones
1,400 01-Mar-05 24K service, MOT, front discs.
200 08-Jul-06 Pre track day fettling
Buy the car.
POORCARDEALER said:
wildoliver said:
Well fuel is good, i average about 30 to the gallon on all sorts of roads.
Depreciation is nothing anyway as they are at bottom of market at the mo.
Running costs, tyres aren't cheap, £100 a corner.
Oil change and service every 5K, I do my own but dealer would be £300? (I really dont know)
I had to do my clutch shortly after getting it, £400 job.
Not heavy on brakes, clutch or any other component really, just make sure you buy a good one.
Depreciation is nothing anyway as they are at bottom of market at the mo.
Running costs, tyres aren't cheap, £100 a corner.
Oil change and service every 5K, I do my own but dealer would be £300? (I really dont know)
I had to do my clutch shortly after getting it, £400 job.
Not heavy on brakes, clutch or any other component really, just make sure you buy a good one.
Did you fit the clutch yourself or fit a recon on, as IIRC the correct clutch kit is about £300 and then it needs fitting which isnt a 1 hour job??
Edited by POORCARDEALER on Monday 27th November 12:18
Yes did it myself, also replaced a few other bits and bobs while I was in there. CV boots etc.
No its not a 1 hour job, but to be fair its not the nightmare that is made out by people either!
Just got back from a 2 hour country lane drive in mine and spotted this thread...
I have spent nearly 3K on mine this year, stuff like service, brakes sorting etc. The latest was a starter motor which left me stranded (big thanks to the AA & Michael at Sports & Classics for fixing that)
The earlier cars feel lighter and certainly just as powerful. However for me the 964's more reliable heating system and wheel arch liners which stops those inner rear wing/kidney bowl & sills from rotting is a worthwhile consideration.
Strangely this is the first 911 i've owned that does not drip oil or smoke on startup!
cheers
Andy
I have spent nearly 3K on mine this year, stuff like service, brakes sorting etc. The latest was a starter motor which left me stranded (big thanks to the AA & Michael at Sports & Classics for fixing that)
The earlier cars feel lighter and certainly just as powerful. However for me the 964's more reliable heating system and wheel arch liners which stops those inner rear wing/kidney bowl & sills from rotting is a worthwhile consideration.
Strangely this is the first 911 i've owned that does not drip oil or smoke on startup!
cheers
Andy
Go here....www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=1&f=48&t=302157&h=0&hw=dougie
To see why it's a MUST do!
To see why it's a MUST do!
henry-f said:
Budget £2000 - £2500 a year to keep a 964 (or indeed any other 911 variant) on the road properly. Don`t think you can keep a Porsche 911 on the road for £500 a year. You can`t. It will keep running but be going downhill when ideally you want to maintain it at the same level or even improve it as you go along.
Henry
Henry
I think henry is spot on here - have a look at my old car which I've kept detailed running costs on.
I want one again already, and the guy hasn't even picked it up yet
i believe there is no such thing as a 'cheap' 911 - you'll either pay high up front, or run a pre-depreciated modern classic, which will need care and attention to keep it in top form.
I sold mine for £11k and the fella got a bargain
do it!
Recently purchased a 964 c2 rhd, Touch wood the engine seems as dry as a bone. Most major jobs have been carried out in last year (brakes, starter motor, suspension, tyres alternator) Drives great, only a little dissapointed in noise need to have window down to really get the roar. all in all though get one a good one and I'm sure you wont regret it.
i had a mint 965 Turbo for a couple of years with about 48k on the clock.
Fantastic looking beast with the speedlines etc, but bloody expensive to keep on the road, i had a clutch an oil leek and a service all at the same time and the bill come to 3k.
If i was buying this era of a 911 again, i would go with the non turbo'd possibly even the 30yr anniversary turbo bodied variant.
i think they are all nice.........HEY ALL PORKERS ARE NICE!
Fantastic looking beast with the speedlines etc, but bloody expensive to keep on the road, i had a clutch an oil leek and a service all at the same time and the bill come to 3k.
If i was buying this era of a 911 again, i would go with the non turbo'd possibly even the 30yr anniversary turbo bodied variant.
i think they are all nice.........HEY ALL PORKERS ARE NICE!
Edited by ED965 on Monday 27th November 16:16
henry-f said:
Budget £2000 - £2500 a year to keep a 964 (or indeed any other 911 variant) on the road properly. It isn`t a science as different car will require different work to be carried out but over say 5 years you probably won`t be too far away at that.
Henry
Henry
Cheers Henry. And thanks to everyone for their comments.
I've done a huge amount of research on the 996 and Boxster - both of which are lovely cars - but my heart really says I want a 964 (which until this thread I'd done no proper research on - simply read enough scary stuff to suggest buying one would be a bad idea ). Will begin absorbing more info on one.
From the numbers quoted (and I'd no prior idea on how much owning an older car might cost) and I see nothing frightening.
And to answer other questions:
May try a LHD but the idea really, really doesn't appeal. Appreciate they are often better maintained.
And sadly it would be a weekend toy only. Does that mean it would need additional fiddling with like a trickle charger?
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