Ruf CTR VS Bugatti Veyron
Discussion
Hi guys,
In answer to track demon the lack of competence of the NSX is because it lacks HP. As PH123 has already stated up to 120mph its fine but above it don't cut the mustard. You may well find that it does have an lsd but set at very low lock levels to prevent the tail end being a little unwieldy whilst accelerating out of corners and I guess as being mid engined those little japanese chappies did not want too many NSX's dive bombing for cover into the scenery. It may well have a far larger percentage of lock under deceleration to help stabalise the back end under braking.
In answer to Francisb you are correct in the assumption that I normally prefer and would only purchase cars that are perhaps deemed to be a bit of a handful. I've driven and raced a number of 964RS's and a 993 GT2 and they are magnificent cars. In fact AdamT's yellowbird would come very high on my wish list. I believe there is currently a chap in Guernsey that has a yellowbird for sale but his £90,000 asking price I personally believe is a little bit to optimistic especially when he said that the printed £80,000 was incorrect.
Now lets look at the magic 1000 bhp figure. I'll exclude the Koni Shockabsorber thingy with 880 bhp as I have yet to see it prove anything other than you need the optional rear spoiler and as far as reliability goes I reckon it will remain very suspect for some time to come. (styling is a matter of opinion but the roof line looks somewhat remeniscent of a WW2 german bomber). For £75,000 I can commision a very nice chap in Sweden to build me a flat fan engine capable of producing over 1000 bhp for my 965 3.6 turbo. Lets add another £25,000 to sort out gearbox, brake and suspension issues so for 100 bags of sand (rhyming slang) I can have a very very fast 911 turbo. The chances are I have just made my 911 turbo almost undriveable. Ask 935 if he fancied goofing around on the road in his 911 if it were limited to running road legal tyres. This is where the Veyron becomes a very clever car because it allows you to purchase a very complete package all be it for a very vast some of money. That said the sum is nowhere near as vast as some people are willing to pay for technically inferior historic vehicles but then they are being sought with an entirely different set of parameters in mind.
Apart from the fear of being car jacked depending upon where you live the Veyron is the only super car that I have ever driven that I would have no qualms in letting my other half drive. That does not make it a mundane supercar to drive as harnessing 1000bhp in a car that is user friendly is no mean achievement. If I am reading this right we are saying that unless the car has some form of flaw in its personality then the car is not an envolving car or supercar to drive. To an extent and under normal circumstances I would agree. Invariably we are talking about traction and therefore the cars ability to make best use of its power as I am sure that none of us like to boast about the fact our car has shit brakes. (and yes I have driven a 1993 Diablo to Le Mans and back in one piece).
I am sure that 935 would not be winning races if the car had traction issues. My F150 lightning pick up truck has 380 bhp with 450 ft lb of torque which I could quite easily tweak to 550bhp and beyond but would it be any quicker a to b, probably not on road tyres. The trick with driving the lightning is to drive it 911 style and use the power to squat the rear and gain the traction. With more power you would overcome the traction gained from the squat that you have achieved and therefore be far less willing to get on the throttle that much earlier out of the corner and therefore much slower. This is where the Veyron is so good. As I have said previously I know the electronics on the Veyron are probably working overtime but they are never intrusive or obvious and that allows you just to enjoy the experience. If I were rounding a bend on a French motorway at around the 200 mph mark with my right foot firmly planted but fearing that at any moment we could be in a very serious snap oversteer position I might have driven somewhat slower. Far from detracting from the experience I can only say in this particular instance it enhances it. Agreed I am lucky enough to no a very nice chap that let myself and a few close friends come along on an experience of a lifetime. None of us where sure that we would get to drive the Bugatti for me it was going to be the icing on the cake, To have had the opportunity to hit and exceed the double ton was the cherry on the top with wipped cream and sprinkles
In answer to track demon the lack of competence of the NSX is because it lacks HP. As PH123 has already stated up to 120mph its fine but above it don't cut the mustard. You may well find that it does have an lsd but set at very low lock levels to prevent the tail end being a little unwieldy whilst accelerating out of corners and I guess as being mid engined those little japanese chappies did not want too many NSX's dive bombing for cover into the scenery. It may well have a far larger percentage of lock under deceleration to help stabalise the back end under braking.
In answer to Francisb you are correct in the assumption that I normally prefer and would only purchase cars that are perhaps deemed to be a bit of a handful. I've driven and raced a number of 964RS's and a 993 GT2 and they are magnificent cars. In fact AdamT's yellowbird would come very high on my wish list. I believe there is currently a chap in Guernsey that has a yellowbird for sale but his £90,000 asking price I personally believe is a little bit to optimistic especially when he said that the printed £80,000 was incorrect.
Now lets look at the magic 1000 bhp figure. I'll exclude the Koni Shockabsorber thingy with 880 bhp as I have yet to see it prove anything other than you need the optional rear spoiler and as far as reliability goes I reckon it will remain very suspect for some time to come. (styling is a matter of opinion but the roof line looks somewhat remeniscent of a WW2 german bomber). For £75,000 I can commision a very nice chap in Sweden to build me a flat fan engine capable of producing over 1000 bhp for my 965 3.6 turbo. Lets add another £25,000 to sort out gearbox, brake and suspension issues so for 100 bags of sand (rhyming slang) I can have a very very fast 911 turbo. The chances are I have just made my 911 turbo almost undriveable. Ask 935 if he fancied goofing around on the road in his 911 if it were limited to running road legal tyres. This is where the Veyron becomes a very clever car because it allows you to purchase a very complete package all be it for a very vast some of money. That said the sum is nowhere near as vast as some people are willing to pay for technically inferior historic vehicles but then they are being sought with an entirely different set of parameters in mind.
Apart from the fear of being car jacked depending upon where you live the Veyron is the only super car that I have ever driven that I would have no qualms in letting my other half drive. That does not make it a mundane supercar to drive as harnessing 1000bhp in a car that is user friendly is no mean achievement. If I am reading this right we are saying that unless the car has some form of flaw in its personality then the car is not an envolving car or supercar to drive. To an extent and under normal circumstances I would agree. Invariably we are talking about traction and therefore the cars ability to make best use of its power as I am sure that none of us like to boast about the fact our car has shit brakes. (and yes I have driven a 1993 Diablo to Le Mans and back in one piece).
I am sure that 935 would not be winning races if the car had traction issues. My F150 lightning pick up truck has 380 bhp with 450 ft lb of torque which I could quite easily tweak to 550bhp and beyond but would it be any quicker a to b, probably not on road tyres. The trick with driving the lightning is to drive it 911 style and use the power to squat the rear and gain the traction. With more power you would overcome the traction gained from the squat that you have achieved and therefore be far less willing to get on the throttle that much earlier out of the corner and therefore much slower. This is where the Veyron is so good. As I have said previously I know the electronics on the Veyron are probably working overtime but they are never intrusive or obvious and that allows you just to enjoy the experience. If I were rounding a bend on a French motorway at around the 200 mph mark with my right foot firmly planted but fearing that at any moment we could be in a very serious snap oversteer position I might have driven somewhat slower. Far from detracting from the experience I can only say in this particular instance it enhances it. Agreed I am lucky enough to no a very nice chap that let myself and a few close friends come along on an experience of a lifetime. None of us where sure that we would get to drive the Bugatti for me it was going to be the icing on the cake, To have had the opportunity to hit and exceed the double ton was the cherry on the top with wipped cream and sprinkles
Nah, this debate is too vital. It is life forming.
Is the modern world dumbing down, or taking performance to a higher plain?
Craft vs progress.
Madagascan vanilla or triple chocolate? (For me, bit of both, Belgian chocolate and Kirsch & cherries.)
EVO’s cross-country blast, staying in touch with the Veyron:
Carrera GT – bit limp but alive, highly strung, handful at limit, corners - clinical process.
Zonda – involving, obstructive gearbox, you can feel the grip.
Enzo – brilliant power delivery, sensational brakes, light on feedback, edgy & out of it’s comfort zone.
Separatelty, EVO on Flemke’s McLaren:
Performance above CGT, Enzo, Zonda et al, engine all invasive/consuming, pinnacle of road car development, mind-bending involvement, intimidating to drive quickly, threatening, intoxicating conundrum.
On Veyron – crazily monumentally fast, gives you super-powers, never dream of provoking it, doesn’t like UK bumps, cold, more than a one trick pony – devastating pace, wieldy steering, responsive brakes, cornering agility.
One inescapable and most pertinent conclusion is that Flemke’s worked over F1 is one of the greatest cars thorough petrolheads have ever driven so super-congratulations on that. And it sounds as though it’s rekindled Gordon’s interest in his vision of producing an improved power-to-weight ratioed supercar. Bravo.
Me? Personally I’ve still keen on new horsepower though, and opening it up to a wider market for a few years yet …
Is the modern world dumbing down, or taking performance to a higher plain?
Craft vs progress.
Madagascan vanilla or triple chocolate? (For me, bit of both, Belgian chocolate and Kirsch & cherries.)
EVO’s cross-country blast, staying in touch with the Veyron:
Carrera GT – bit limp but alive, highly strung, handful at limit, corners - clinical process.
Zonda – involving, obstructive gearbox, you can feel the grip.
Enzo – brilliant power delivery, sensational brakes, light on feedback, edgy & out of it’s comfort zone.
Separatelty, EVO on Flemke’s McLaren:
Performance above CGT, Enzo, Zonda et al, engine all invasive/consuming, pinnacle of road car development, mind-bending involvement, intimidating to drive quickly, threatening, intoxicating conundrum.
On Veyron – crazily monumentally fast, gives you super-powers, never dream of provoking it, doesn’t like UK bumps, cold, more than a one trick pony – devastating pace, wieldy steering, responsive brakes, cornering agility.
One inescapable and most pertinent conclusion is that Flemke’s worked over F1 is one of the greatest cars thorough petrolheads have ever driven so super-congratulations on that. And it sounds as though it’s rekindled Gordon’s interest in his vision of producing an improved power-to-weight ratioed supercar. Bravo.
Me? Personally I’ve still keen on new horsepower though, and opening it up to a wider market for a few years yet …
graeme73s said:
I believe there is currently a chap in Guernsey that has a yellowbird for sale but his £90,000 asking price I personally believe is a little bit to optimistic especially when he said that the printed £80,000 was incorrect.
Can you tell me where this car is advertised please
rubystone said:
graeme73s said:
I believe there is currently a chap in Guernsey that has a yellowbird for sale but his £90,000 asking price I personally believe is a little bit to optimistic especially when he said that the printed £80,000 was incorrect.
Can you tell me where this car is advertised please
If you're looking for one, the one I had a spin in in this thread
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=294164&f=48&h=0&hw=ruf
is for sale at the moment for £99,950!!!
Edited to say the pictures aren't working, but its a Viper Green one, absolutely stunning.
Edited by tiga84 on Friday 15th December 10:59
Edited by tiga84 on Friday 15th December 11:01
tiga84 said:
Thanks - did they salvage those seats from a Golf GTI Mk 3?
rubystone said:
tiga84 said:
Thanks - did they salvage those seats from a Golf GTI Mk 3?
I know, a trifle sudden to say the least. Very cool car, looks amazing in Viper as well.
trackdemon said:
graeme73s said:
In answer to track demon the lack of competence of the NSX is because it lacks HP.
LOL, what an insightful and well constructed POV. And you have no driving experience of the car. I'll switch on my graeme73s filter.....
Apologies but I just have not got around to driving everything yet
and to rubystone it is advertised in 911 and Porsche World and it is yellow
cheers Graeme
Boxing Day boredom has led to nice BUMP
Very eloquently put Graeme, makes me want to just grab my keys and....
Thanks - did they salvage those seats from a Golf GTI Mk 3?
My thoughts exactly R , beat me to the post.
I'm off for a look this week with my d20,post to follow.
graeme73s said:
is to drive it 911 style and use the power to squat the rear and gain the traction.
Very eloquently put Graeme, makes me want to just grab my keys and....
rubystone said:
tiga84 said:
Thanks - did they salvage those seats from a Golf GTI Mk 3?
My thoughts exactly R , beat me to the post.
I'm off for a look this week with my d20,post to follow.
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