First 911 - Carrera 3.2 or 993 ?
Discussion
In my humble opinion, they are different cars best suited to different uses.
The problem is that when we may have wanted one (when we couldn't afford it perhaps) 10 to 20 years ago - they were reasonably comfortable and similar in spec to most cars of the era. Since then ordinary family cars have been so refined (but gradually) that many 3.2 owners find they are dissapointed with the crudity of the car once they get over the initial excitement of ownership. They have been spoilt by the gradual improvements in the cars they have driven in the meantime.
I therefore have feed back that my customers find the 3.2 is more raw, noisy, uncomfortable and old fashioned than they expected and we know it will become expensive when the interior rear body sections rot, and the piston rings are worn out etc and you find you need a top end rebuild. However they are exciting to drive, sound great, and are ideal for occasional "Sunday" use because without driving to fast they feel twitchy and responsive. If you seek an occasional blast from the past they are ideal - but although to date most have been relatively inexpensive to own, they are reaching an age where they will become increasingly expensive to run.
The 993 on the other hand is much more modern, more comfortable, much faster, handles better and can be used every day as well as on a track etc. It will cost more to buy but will probaly cost less in the next 5 years to own and probably depreciate less. It is the last air cooled 911 and by far the best ever made and is in huge demand. Because it drives better - if you seek raw excitement you will have to drive extremely fast to reproduce the thrill of driving the 3.2 less quickly and in that fact the different useage becomes an issue.
So in my view - if yoyu can afford a 993 it is the best buy unless you want old fashioned occasional thrills but if you cannot stretch to it - you need to be very careful to choose the right 3.2 - to avoid increasing costs in the years ahead.
Good luck,
Baz Hartech
The problem is that when we may have wanted one (when we couldn't afford it perhaps) 10 to 20 years ago - they were reasonably comfortable and similar in spec to most cars of the era. Since then ordinary family cars have been so refined (but gradually) that many 3.2 owners find they are dissapointed with the crudity of the car once they get over the initial excitement of ownership. They have been spoilt by the gradual improvements in the cars they have driven in the meantime.
I therefore have feed back that my customers find the 3.2 is more raw, noisy, uncomfortable and old fashioned than they expected and we know it will become expensive when the interior rear body sections rot, and the piston rings are worn out etc and you find you need a top end rebuild. However they are exciting to drive, sound great, and are ideal for occasional "Sunday" use because without driving to fast they feel twitchy and responsive. If you seek an occasional blast from the past they are ideal - but although to date most have been relatively inexpensive to own, they are reaching an age where they will become increasingly expensive to run.
The 993 on the other hand is much more modern, more comfortable, much faster, handles better and can be used every day as well as on a track etc. It will cost more to buy but will probaly cost less in the next 5 years to own and probably depreciate less. It is the last air cooled 911 and by far the best ever made and is in huge demand. Because it drives better - if you seek raw excitement you will have to drive extremely fast to reproduce the thrill of driving the 3.2 less quickly and in that fact the different useage becomes an issue.
So in my view - if yoyu can afford a 993 it is the best buy unless you want old fashioned occasional thrills but if you cannot stretch to it - you need to be very careful to choose the right 3.2 - to avoid increasing costs in the years ahead.
Good luck,
Baz Hartech
yes sorry have found a fair bit searching the archives .. still useful advice ..
other factors will be it must be a daily driver with some motorway commuting from time to time, and the wife will also be using it ...really looks 993 is the way to go ...also, is there a 'hierachy' in terms of desirable colours ?
other factors will be it must be a daily driver with some motorway commuting from time to time, and the wife will also be using it ...really looks 993 is the way to go ...also, is there a 'hierachy' in terms of desirable colours ?
I agree with the Hartech comments. I've had a Polar Silver 993 for the last 6 months. Although I was also looking at a Carrera 3.2 as well. The decision was simple in that I loved the looks of the 993, it was modern(ish), and more importantly I waited and became in budget for the 993 and I love it to bits. Although a Carrera 3.2 would have been desirable as well....but chalk and cheese really.
I wouldn't go for a 964....I know I might get slapped for this, but there are lots of considerations when buying these...dual mass flywheels, gasketless cylinder heads, belts on distributors etc. Although by as late a model as possible is my advice as most issue are ironed out.
Don't make any sort of speed comparison between the Carrera 3.2 and the 993 and the 10K difference...it's madness....is everything really about speed...can't be in cars this age anyway. If so go and buy a Caterham with a massive engine. I would never make that type of comparison.
I wouldn't go for a 964....I know I might get slapped for this, but there are lots of considerations when buying these...dual mass flywheels, gasketless cylinder heads, belts on distributors etc. Although by as late a model as possible is my advice as most issue are ironed out.
Don't make any sort of speed comparison between the Carrera 3.2 and the 993 and the 10K difference...it's madness....is everything really about speed...can't be in cars this age anyway. If so go and buy a Caterham with a massive engine. I would never make that type of comparison.
Colour is a very difficult one to decide. As boring as it may sound to some individuals it seems that the various blue colours (dark) are popular...ocean blue for example and the silvers. For some this can be boring and they go for a yellow or a red. But from my experience, red or adventurer green in a 993 is usually a tad cheaper to buy but that is reflected when you sell as well.
If it helps, Peter Morgans guide suggests Polar Silver and the dark blues. I'd also recommend his guide for a 993 if that's what you decide to go for.
If it helps, Peter Morgans guide suggests Polar Silver and the dark blues. I'd also recommend his guide for a 993 if that's what you decide to go for.
I've had an '89 3.2 Carrera for the last 3 years and use it as a daily driver, 50 miles a day, on the motorway and I love it!! Okay it is not overly refined, does mist up in the winter and gets dang hot in the summer etc etc but there is no better feeling hooning past everyone in a car that most people expect to be drawing its pension. Live a little, get a good one, spend £2k on the missus and pocket the spare £8k then everyones a winner!
I have to say there's a lot to be said from being able to use the car on a daily basis. My 993 is a second car and doesn't get used enough at the moment. There are certainly times when I feel I should have got a Carrera 3.2 and use it as a daily driver...that was the plan at one stage.
Yup different cars suit different people but have those that love and propose the 3.2 actually driven a 993 as well? and don't forget that there is a good chance that the difference will not be £10K by the end of three years ownership and depreciation and anyway - having driven them all - I think the 993 is well sorth the extra cost.
Colours - yes silver and dark blues are great.
A strange colour is the burgundy mettalic which everyone admires but I have always found slow to sell, and red and white have few takers. The dark green and purple also cost less but are difficult to sell and the ocean jade takes for ever to sell. This is not in itself a criticism of the colours but if they take time to sell you will never get a good price because at this age demand drives prices more than anything else.
Good luck,
Baz Hartech
Colours - yes silver and dark blues are great.
A strange colour is the burgundy mettalic which everyone admires but I have always found slow to sell, and red and white have few takers. The dark green and purple also cost less but are difficult to sell and the ocean jade takes for ever to sell. This is not in itself a criticism of the colours but if they take time to sell you will never get a good price because at this age demand drives prices more than anything else.
Good luck,
Baz Hartech
I have owned both as second or third cars. There is no comparison between them, because you are talking a gap of 5 years in refinement terms.
Everyday driving demands a few more mundane features like decent heating and demisting. You will find the whole 993 package is more suited to everyday use, but in terms of character I would say the 3.2 wins.
In terms of colour... 3 years ago I couldn`t shift a GP White SSE and couldn`t find a SY 993 Coupe for love nor money.
Oh! how times change. Happy hunting.
Everyday driving demands a few more mundane features like decent heating and demisting. You will find the whole 993 package is more suited to everyday use, but in terms of character I would say the 3.2 wins.
In terms of colour... 3 years ago I couldn`t shift a GP White SSE and couldn`t find a SY 993 Coupe for love nor money.
Oh! how times change. Happy hunting.
If you can push to 20-25k, no brainer
Get a 930 or 965 Turbo, proper weekend hoon and look the bollox, this is what 911's are all about.
Downside is service/parts costs. But if its just for small miles why not have miles with proper smiles and let your heart rule your head
If you like the Turbo look but don't want servicing costs get a wide bodied 3.2 Supersport or 964.
Get a 930 or 965 Turbo, proper weekend hoon and look the bollox, this is what 911's are all about.
Downside is service/parts costs. But if its just for small miles why not have miles with proper smiles and let your heart rule your head
If you like the Turbo look but don't want servicing costs get a wide bodied 3.2 Supersport or 964.
Must agree with Baz, wise words mate.
Ive got a 3.2 and had it about 3 years.
Costs about 1 to 1,5K to run.
Ive had a couple of big bills from Paragon, but what's the plastic for ?
Ill remember a fantastic gearbox and clutch a lot longer than the £3700
It is fantastic to drive, but its well sorted.
They do really fly.
Ive looked at buying a 993, and driven one.
Much much more refined. Tunnel's a bit high, and footspace is a bit more cramped. Gearbox feels totally diferent, with the selector moving in a sort of linear fashion. Gearknob also felt a bit high, you sort of reach down with the 3.2, feels like your grabbing the car by the scuff of the neck.
993 Exhaust sounds beautiful outside, but inside you feel more cossetted, which on a long motorway run is much better, but if you're out to cane it- much worse.
You're definitely right to buy as late a 3.2 if you want one of these. The later cars have a lot of improvements, one piece rubbers etc. Lots has been posted on the different gearboxes, either 915 or G50. You need a strong leg for the 915 clutch in traffic.When they're sorted they're fine. A knackered G50's not a lot of good.
Loads of examples out there, but plenty have been bought and suffered a lack of investment. Its a testimony to the Zuffenhausen build quality that they age quite well.
No matter what anyone says, you cant run a 3.2 for £450 a year.
I feel 3.2's are now going to go one way or the other. If they've being looked after and have a good history will hold their value, but if they aren't will become a sort of maintenance write off. Cost of repairs precluding it becoming financially viable, so cars just dying.
3.2's also getting converted into 70's look a likes. I like this idea, means the standard cars become rarer.
Buy on condition as Henry F professes. [911Virgin]
Drive as many as you can, history is everything.
Im in the market for an aventura green 993, I must be the only pher to love that colour. Reminds me of VW Lhasa green. Im keeping my 3.2 though, can't let that go.
The one thing I thought when I drove the 993 was, "why am I getting 15 bags extra out, the interior had less curvaceous seats, and apart from a few extra lights in the dash, and different heater controls, the cabin looked the same. 993's don't feel as involving, so raw and Im not sure if I want that. I do know I want a later air cooled Porsche, but Im not risking feeling regret in selling my car, took far to long to find it.
Fortunately the wife agrees.
This books good if you want to look for a nice 3.2
Buy Porsche 911 buyers guide by Randy Leffingwell
ISBN0-7603-0947--7
This ones excellent and what Im using for the 993 purchase.
Porsche 993 'King of Porsche' - The Essential Companion
by Adrian Streather
Don't know the isbn, its around a McGarrett though. [five o]
Good luck.
Ive got a 3.2 and had it about 3 years.
Costs about 1 to 1,5K to run.
Ive had a couple of big bills from Paragon, but what's the plastic for ?
Ill remember a fantastic gearbox and clutch a lot longer than the £3700
It is fantastic to drive, but its well sorted.
They do really fly.
Ive looked at buying a 993, and driven one.
Much much more refined. Tunnel's a bit high, and footspace is a bit more cramped. Gearbox feels totally diferent, with the selector moving in a sort of linear fashion. Gearknob also felt a bit high, you sort of reach down with the 3.2, feels like your grabbing the car by the scuff of the neck.
993 Exhaust sounds beautiful outside, but inside you feel more cossetted, which on a long motorway run is much better, but if you're out to cane it- much worse.
You're definitely right to buy as late a 3.2 if you want one of these. The later cars have a lot of improvements, one piece rubbers etc. Lots has been posted on the different gearboxes, either 915 or G50. You need a strong leg for the 915 clutch in traffic.When they're sorted they're fine. A knackered G50's not a lot of good.
Loads of examples out there, but plenty have been bought and suffered a lack of investment. Its a testimony to the Zuffenhausen build quality that they age quite well.
No matter what anyone says, you cant run a 3.2 for £450 a year.
I feel 3.2's are now going to go one way or the other. If they've being looked after and have a good history will hold their value, but if they aren't will become a sort of maintenance write off. Cost of repairs precluding it becoming financially viable, so cars just dying.
3.2's also getting converted into 70's look a likes. I like this idea, means the standard cars become rarer.
Buy on condition as Henry F professes. [911Virgin]
Drive as many as you can, history is everything.
Im in the market for an aventura green 993, I must be the only pher to love that colour. Reminds me of VW Lhasa green. Im keeping my 3.2 though, can't let that go.
The one thing I thought when I drove the 993 was, "why am I getting 15 bags extra out, the interior had less curvaceous seats, and apart from a few extra lights in the dash, and different heater controls, the cabin looked the same. 993's don't feel as involving, so raw and Im not sure if I want that. I do know I want a later air cooled Porsche, but Im not risking feeling regret in selling my car, took far to long to find it.
Fortunately the wife agrees.
This books good if you want to look for a nice 3.2
Buy Porsche 911 buyers guide by Randy Leffingwell
ISBN0-7603-0947--7
This ones excellent and what Im using for the 993 purchase.
Porsche 993 'King of Porsche' - The Essential Companion
by Adrian Streather
Don't know the isbn, its around a McGarrett though. [five o]
Good luck.
stuttgartmetal said:
Must agree with Baz, wise words mate.
Ive got a 3.2 and had it about 3 years.
Costs about 1 to 1,5K to run.
Ive had a couple of big bills from Paragon, but what's the plastic for ?
Ill remember a fantastic gearbox and clutch a lot longer than the £3700
It is fantastic to drive, but its well sorted.
They do really fly.
Ive looked at buying a 993, and driven one.
Much much more refined. Tunnel's a bit high, and footspace is a bit more cramped. Gearbox feels totally diferent, with the selector moving in a sort of linear fashion. Gearknob also felt a bit high, you sort of reach down with the 3.2, feels like your grabbing the car by the scuff of the neck.
993 Exhaust sounds beautiful outside, but inside you feel more cossetted, which on a long motorway run is much better, but if you're out to cane it- much worse.
You're definitely right to buy as late a 3.2 if you want one of these. The later cars have a lot of improvements, one piece rubbers etc. Lots has been posted on the different gearboxes, either 915 or G50. You need a strong leg for the 915 clutch in traffic.When they're sorted they're fine. A knackered G50's not a lot of good.
Loads of examples out there, but plenty have been bought and suffered a lack of investment. Its a testimony to the Zuffenhausen build quality that they age quite well.
No matter what anyone says, you cant run a 3.2 for £450 a year.
I feel 3.2's are now going to go one way or the other. If they've being looked after and have a good history will hold their value, but if they aren't will become a sort of maintenance write off. Cost of repairs precluding it becoming financially viable, so cars just dying.
3.2's also getting converted into 70's look a likes. I like this idea, means the standard cars become rarer.
Buy on condition as Henry F professes. [911Virgin]
Drive as many as you can, history is everything.
Im in the market for an aventura green 993, I must be the only pher to love that colour. Reminds me of VW Lhasa green. Im keeping my 3.2 though, can't let that go.
The one thing I thought when I drove the 993 was, "why am I getting 15 bags extra out, the interior had less curvaceous seats, and apart from a few extra lights in the dash, and different heater controls, the cabin looked the same. 993's don't feel as involving, so raw and Im not sure if I want that. I do know I want a later air cooled Porsche, but Im not risking feeling regret in selling my car, took far to long to find it.
Fortunately the wife agrees.
This books good if you want to look for a nice 3.2
Buy Porsche 911 buyers guide by Randy Leffingwell
ISBN0-7603-0947--7
This ones excellent and what Im using for the 993 purchase.
Porsche 993 'King of Porsche' - The Essential Companion
by Adrian Streather
Don't know the isbn, its around a McGarrett though. [five o]
Good luck.
Ive got a 3.2 and had it about 3 years.
Costs about 1 to 1,5K to run.
Ive had a couple of big bills from Paragon, but what's the plastic for ?
Ill remember a fantastic gearbox and clutch a lot longer than the £3700
It is fantastic to drive, but its well sorted.
They do really fly.
Ive looked at buying a 993, and driven one.
Much much more refined. Tunnel's a bit high, and footspace is a bit more cramped. Gearbox feels totally diferent, with the selector moving in a sort of linear fashion. Gearknob also felt a bit high, you sort of reach down with the 3.2, feels like your grabbing the car by the scuff of the neck.
993 Exhaust sounds beautiful outside, but inside you feel more cossetted, which on a long motorway run is much better, but if you're out to cane it- much worse.
You're definitely right to buy as late a 3.2 if you want one of these. The later cars have a lot of improvements, one piece rubbers etc. Lots has been posted on the different gearboxes, either 915 or G50. You need a strong leg for the 915 clutch in traffic.When they're sorted they're fine. A knackered G50's not a lot of good.
Loads of examples out there, but plenty have been bought and suffered a lack of investment. Its a testimony to the Zuffenhausen build quality that they age quite well.
No matter what anyone says, you cant run a 3.2 for £450 a year.
I feel 3.2's are now going to go one way or the other. If they've being looked after and have a good history will hold their value, but if they aren't will become a sort of maintenance write off. Cost of repairs precluding it becoming financially viable, so cars just dying.
3.2's also getting converted into 70's look a likes. I like this idea, means the standard cars become rarer.
Buy on condition as Henry F professes. [911Virgin]
Drive as many as you can, history is everything.
Im in the market for an aventura green 993, I must be the only pher to love that colour. Reminds me of VW Lhasa green. Im keeping my 3.2 though, can't let that go.
The one thing I thought when I drove the 993 was, "why am I getting 15 bags extra out, the interior had less curvaceous seats, and apart from a few extra lights in the dash, and different heater controls, the cabin looked the same. 993's don't feel as involving, so raw and Im not sure if I want that. I do know I want a later air cooled Porsche, but Im not risking feeling regret in selling my car, took far to long to find it.
Fortunately the wife agrees.
This books good if you want to look for a nice 3.2
Buy Porsche 911 buyers guide by Randy Leffingwell
ISBN0-7603-0947--7
This ones excellent and what Im using for the 993 purchase.
Porsche 993 'King of Porsche' - The Essential Companion
by Adrian Streather
Don't know the isbn, its around a McGarrett though. [five o]
Good luck.
Pretty well said Paul.
save 10k and get a good 3.2?
still like my suggestion, but i would be tempted to save the money and opt for a good 3.2 and as you say they are becoming rare (nice examples) and i beleive the values will go North without a doubt
Edited by ED965 on Thursday 11th January 16:41
truckpdt said:
I wouldn't go for a 964....I know I might get slapped for this, but there are lots of considerations when buying these...dual mass flywheels, gasketless cylinder heads, belts on distributors etc. Although by as late a model as possible is my advice as most issue are ironed out.
Think you'd find it very difficult to find a faulty dual mass fly wheel still in place and any significat gasket problem 964's would have broke or been fixed by now. For some reason the bad reputation from its early niggles has stuck with the model, suits me as it makes it one of the better value 911 options. It drives nearly as well as the 993 (certainly easy to use as a daily drive) and looks nearly as good as the 3.2 (the girly curves of the 993 leave me cold). It certainly doesn't seem popular on PH and for buyers and like the 996 that make it great VFM. But go with the other two and get less for your money, after all 100,000 lemmings cant be wong can they ?
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