Is a 993 twice as good as a 964?
Discussion
I have had my 964 for nearly 5 years, and it is a great car for what I want. It goes out when the only reason for going out is to drive it in a spirited manner.
I have been tinkering with the idea of upgrading to a 993 mainly because of the length of time I have had the 964, but my dilema is that a varioram C2 with 75k miles would cost twice as much as my 964 with 77k miles is worth, assuming my car is worth realistically £13k as it weeps a bit of oil and could probably do with a rebuild.
I have driven 993 pre varioram and varioram cars when my dad had them 10 years ago, and preferred the varioram, but cannot say if they were twice as good as the 964 is.
I don't fancy a 996 as I have wanted a 993 for years, I could get a better 996 for £25k than I could a 993 (that is a debate for another thread).
In a nutshell, is the 993 twice as good as the 964 ? (my head says no but my heart says maybe, as I need to get the engine sorted and some paintwork fettled on the 964 which will cost a few thousand pounds).
I have been tinkering with the idea of upgrading to a 993 mainly because of the length of time I have had the 964, but my dilema is that a varioram C2 with 75k miles would cost twice as much as my 964 with 77k miles is worth, assuming my car is worth realistically £13k as it weeps a bit of oil and could probably do with a rebuild.
I have driven 993 pre varioram and varioram cars when my dad had them 10 years ago, and preferred the varioram, but cannot say if they were twice as good as the 964 is.
I don't fancy a 996 as I have wanted a 993 for years, I could get a better 996 for £25k than I could a 993 (that is a debate for another thread).
In a nutshell, is the 993 twice as good as the 964 ? (my head says no but my heart says maybe, as I need to get the engine sorted and some paintwork fettled on the 964 which will cost a few thousand pounds).
Not twice as good if any better...slightly cheaper servicing on 93 as hydraulic tappets rather than manual on 64.....drive one to see wht you think.
Hard to quantify value.....is a 93 3 times as good as an '83 SC???? Is a 997GT3 twice as good as mk1 Gt3 ????
I would think 64 definitely there and 93 close to low in depreciation curve, then it comes down to the all important condition and provenence of the individual car...a doggy, uncared for 993 may well be 1/2 the car a nigh on perfect 964 is to drive!
Fidgits, have you driven many 911 through the years....you seem very opinionated on pre 996 cars.
Hard to quantify value.....is a 93 3 times as good as an '83 SC???? Is a 997GT3 twice as good as mk1 Gt3 ????
I would think 64 definitely there and 93 close to low in depreciation curve, then it comes down to the all important condition and provenence of the individual car...a doggy, uncared for 993 may well be 1/2 the car a nigh on perfect 964 is to drive!
Fidgits, have you driven many 911 through the years....you seem very opinionated on pre 996 cars.
What you're really looking for is a change. Even if you did swap you could still end up forking out for other stuff that needs attention - the 993 will still be a 10+ year old car. As was said above - go for the rebuild, upgrade the dampers and give it a bit of a pamper (maybe even a miracledetail 
). A much wiser move methinks.
and the 964 is a far better looking car
). A much wiser move methinks. and the 964 is a far better looking car
If you're heart is set on a 993 and you can afford one without problems then i can see no good reason not to go ahead and upgrade.
Having said that I think you'll find the driving experience of a 993C2 very similar to your 964. The 993 was hardly a giant leap forward in performance, handling or anything else.
As others have said a nice 964 is better than a doggy 993 so for you it might be a case of better the devil you know.
Having said that I think you'll find the driving experience of a 993C2 very similar to your 964. The 993 was hardly a giant leap forward in performance, handling or anything else.
As others have said a nice 964 is better than a doggy 993 so for you it might be a case of better the devil you know.
imo if both cars are in good condition, I would say there is not much between them. I think the 993 is aesthetically the far better option (although of course, beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder or something like that). However, overall I definately wouldn't say that the 993 was twice the car.
No way twice as good, driven both and had a 965 Turbo 2.
Stick with the oldun and spend a little money on the lump, albeit an oil weeps no big deal, my 965 leaked but didn't need a rebuild it had only done 45k. At the end of the day not many Porkers are bone dry underneath, in fact the one i have now is the first that hasn't bloody leaked a drop. So i'm keeping it!
Stick with the oldun and spend a little money on the lump, albeit an oil weeps no big deal, my 965 leaked but didn't need a rebuild it had only done 45k. At the end of the day not many Porkers are bone dry underneath, in fact the one i have now is the first that hasn't bloody leaked a drop. So i'm keeping it!
By my calculations, a 993 is 3.00829% better than a 964. So, you won't really notice much difference by 'upgrading'.
The 993s look different - some say better, others prefer the 993.
When I had my 964, the difference in driving was not enough for me to 'upgrade' to a 993. I eventually got a GT3, which is noticably different to drive than my 964 was.
Unless you have the cash burning a hole in your pocket, spend the money on something better - like a holiday or investments - especially if you still enjoy driving the 964. There are much better things to spend £££ on than upgrades.
The 993s look different - some say better, others prefer the 993.
When I had my 964, the difference in driving was not enough for me to 'upgrade' to a 993. I eventually got a GT3, which is noticably different to drive than my 964 was.
Unless you have the cash burning a hole in your pocket, spend the money on something better - like a holiday or investments - especially if you still enjoy driving the 964. There are much better things to spend £££ on than upgrades.
, OK, forget itIMO a 993 is a more accomplished car than a 964. The rear suspension is noticably better, the brakes instill more confidence, a varioram engined 993 is noticably more torquey (pre-varioram very similar to 964 engine in feel), it has the extra gear and it still has that oil cooled feel, smell etc.
Both drive and steer in the same old 911 way (except the 993 is somewhat more forgiving on lift off mid corner) so if you like the way a 964 drives you'll feel the same about a 993. However both a 993 and 964 need setting up correctly. Especially 993 rear suspension. Drive a badly set 993 and you'll think the 964 is better. The opposite applies too.
As for twice the car, no not at all.
BTW huge 964 fan myself. Drive one everyday. Own a 993 too so can directly compare. Both cars will become some sort of classic.
Ian.
Both drive and steer in the same old 911 way (except the 993 is somewhat more forgiving on lift off mid corner) so if you like the way a 964 drives you'll feel the same about a 993. However both a 993 and 964 need setting up correctly. Especially 993 rear suspension. Drive a badly set 993 and you'll think the 964 is better. The opposite applies too.
As for twice the car, no not at all.
BTW huge 964 fan myself. Drive one everyday. Own a 993 too so can directly compare. Both cars will become some sort of classic.
Ian.
Edited by ian_uk on Thursday 25th January 18:57
Bit harsh PP. I took the thread to be a "Top Gear like" question/hypothesis to start a bit of debate. And in the context of this forum I reckon it is a cracking question.
As to the answer I've got no idea having never driven a 964.
However, judging by aesthetics alone I'd say that the 993 is overall a better looking car (except from the front where the traditional 911 look of the 964 wins out).
As to the answer I've got no idea having never driven a 964.
However, judging by aesthetics alone I'd say that the 993 is overall a better looking car (except from the front where the traditional 911 look of the 964 wins out).
IMHO I'd spend the money on your 964.
993 has more power (upgrade the 964 and it will be a lot quicker than the 993, varioram engine is very difficult to tune, 993RS's never made the 308bhp I believe that was quoted)
Rear suspension was an improvement (fit the 964RS set up loosing the rubber bushes in the rear trailing arms)
Air con was better (thats life)
Looks. Well personally the 964 over the 993 anyday. A 993 from some angles looks ungainly, that said a 993RS or GT2 does look the b***ocks
993 has more power (upgrade the 964 and it will be a lot quicker than the 993, varioram engine is very difficult to tune, 993RS's never made the 308bhp I believe that was quoted)
Rear suspension was an improvement (fit the 964RS set up loosing the rubber bushes in the rear trailing arms)
Air con was better (thats life)
Looks. Well personally the 964 over the 993 anyday. A 993 from some angles looks ungainly, that said a 993RS or GT2 does look the b***ocks
Noooooooooooo !!!!!!!
Paul,
Step away from the 993, get your monkeychequebook out and get the engine fettled with you know you dont want to go newer.
If you need your 993 fix borrow your fathers I am sure he wont mind just dont get it dirty though
Also listen to fidgits. I have a beard so I should be right!
Neil
Paul,
Step away from the 993, get your monkeychequebook out and get the engine fettled with you know you dont want to go newer.
If you need your 993 fix borrow your fathers I am sure he wont mind just dont get it dirty though
Also listen to fidgits. I have a beard so I should be right!
Neil
Edited by neil964 on Thursday 25th January 23:05
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