cant afford a 964 rs
Discussion
uktrailmonster said:
My only regret is not buying a 2.7RS when they were around the £40K mark! But the 2.4S is a pretty good consolation 
I bought an SC in 1986 for circa £6k. Choice of cars for that money at that time? DB5, 2.7RS, 246 Dino....prices now:- DB5 £150-£200k, 2.7 £100-£150k, Dino £55-75k, SC - £7k.....rubystone said:
I bought an SC in 1986 for circa £6k. Choice of cars for that money at that time? DB5, 2.7RS, 246 Dino....prices now:- DB5 £150-£200k, 2.7 £100-£150k, Dino £55-75k, SC - £7k.....
I was still at school back then, but I remember lusting over a 2.7RS for sale at a car show. I think from memory it was up for around £8K (a viper green RST, totally original). I recognised its potential future value, but sadly didn't have the £8K! At least I got hold of the 2.4S before prices went silly. Buying an SC back then would be similar to buying a bog standard 996 today instead of a 964RS. uktrailmonster said:
rubystone said:
I bought an SC in 1986 for circa £6k. Choice of cars for that money at that time? DB5, 2.7RS, 246 Dino....prices now:- DB5 £150-£200k, 2.7 £100-£150k, Dino £55-75k, SC - £7k.....
I was still at school back then, but I remember lusting over a 2.7RS for sale at a car show. I think from memory it was up for around £8K (a viper green RST, totally original). I recognised its potential future value, but sadly didn't have the £8K! At least I got hold of the 2.4S before prices went silly. Buying an SC back then would be similar to buying a bog standard 996 today instead of a 964RS. 
SS7
Forget all that nonsense about buying a "standard car"and throwing money away modifying it....stetch to the RS and make your own mind up.....and then if for some strange reason its not the car for you, then sell it on safe in the knowledge that you are going to get your money back! Seems like common sense to me......sick of blowing money on "normal cars"!
Edited by 65 mat on Friday 7th September 21:30
uktrailmonster said:
My wife's VW Lupo was faster on your average UK B-road and I'm really not joking!
my RS on cup suspension is a damn sight stiffer than most. if your missus can keep up with me down my local b roads she can have it. i think just maybe my car is safe. you've just got to grab it by the scruff of the neck and wring it out, keep it nailed no matter what, then it all comes together and its brilliant. unless its wet. when i stay indoors
Edited by fbrs on Friday 7th September 21:51
the idea is not to have a replica rs,but the driving experience of a razor sharp,driver orientated trackday machine.add a rollcage...throw out as much weight as possible,not necessarily original,but lite seats,suspension mods,brake mods,engine mods...just looking for value for my buck...
uktrailmonster said:
shoestring7 said:
And on the road it was a damn sight better than a 964RS I tried.
My Lupo was the most agriculturally awful car I have ever owned --- and it understeered from a standstill !
964RS' each have their own character, and it is very easy to ruin the feel of a good one.
But well set-up, on 17"mags and with their relatively high shouldered tyres (PSCups have been good for me), they are absolutely fantastic. And did I mention the rifle bolt gearchage and the bomb proof build quality ?
You may not know it, but many specialist Porsche dealers choose to drive their own 964RS, and many racing drivers covet such cars --- though at £60k and stepping into 996RS territory, the best are I agree becoming toppy --- unless one applies a collectors valuation !
(I recently attended an Audi R8 day at Oulton Park, and one one the German developemnet drivers asked if I wanted to sell him my RS --- maybe he saw how gently I was driving his R8!)
However, and this is where I get myself into trouble. The RHD 964RS cars are in my view rather nicer than the more common LHD cars. The power steering loses none of the feel of the non-power steering LHD cars and is much better on really tight and slow twisties, and the pedal box on the RHD cars is much closer together making -- for myself --- heel and toeing astonishingly secure and easy. With only 70 + in the World, these are, in my view, the rising stars.
sambaman said:
i know of a carrera america RS $33,000.....any takers ????
I'll give you the oxygen of publicity, but the Carrera RS was based on a stripped down C2 and was never an RS.G T 3 said:
I fancy this also, cheap 964,strip out, respray, total rebuild of necessary parts.Would be pricy, but I would worry about using an RS to much. May be about £30-35k though, plus not worth it when sold,but RHD, but poss get LHD RS for similar dosh,dont know,help!!!
The yanks may quite like them, but they were sold at $10k less than a standard C2 and are an unworthy contender for the 964RS crown. Beware.
That stone grey 964 with the 3.8 conversion, as refered to by Ultra violet, shoestring and leosayer, is mine!! Thanks for the weblink to it!
I went to see it as it looked interesting, thinking that it wouldn't do any harm.....wrong. I bought it and haven't looked back since.
I can't give a direct comparison to an RS as I have never driven one, the only other one I've been in recently was a 997GT3 RS at Bedford (not just a differant ball game, a differant county!). What I would say though, is that I can't afford an RS and from a driving piont of view (as opposed to a puerly commercial investment) probably isn't worth it. What I could afford was the one I got which has already had everything I would want to do to it, done (and documented) litterally saving me thousands (in not tens of) both of expenditure and depreciation.
It's not an RS and doesn't pretend to be but goes extreemely well and can suprise what on the face ot it would apear to be much faster machinery, it'll be even better when I get more experience and tuition in it.
I might just pop out to the garage and have a look at it now...............
I went to see it as it looked interesting, thinking that it wouldn't do any harm.....wrong. I bought it and haven't looked back since.
I can't give a direct comparison to an RS as I have never driven one, the only other one I've been in recently was a 997GT3 RS at Bedford (not just a differant ball game, a differant county!). What I would say though, is that I can't afford an RS and from a driving piont of view (as opposed to a puerly commercial investment) probably isn't worth it. What I could afford was the one I got which has already had everything I would want to do to it, done (and documented) litterally saving me thousands (in not tens of) both of expenditure and depreciation.
It's not an RS and doesn't pretend to be but goes extreemely well and can suprise what on the face ot it would apear to be much faster machinery, it'll be even better when I get more experience and tuition in it.
I might just pop out to the garage and have a look at it now...............
paul0843 said:
the idea is not to have a replica rs,but the driving experience of a razor sharp,driver orientated trackday machine.add a rollcage...throw out as much weight as possible,not necessarily original,but lite seats,suspension mods,brake mods,engine mods...just looking for value for my buck...
If you know what you want and intend to keep the car for some time and track it regularly than what you suggest is a sound idea. In fact I'd go as far to say that if you want "a razor sharp,driver orientated trackday machine" then you're better off starting with a C2 and modifying it in any case. there are a number of such modified C2s that a standard RS wouldn't get near on track.The 964RS is simply a factory modified car and everything the factory did can be copied but would you really want to? The RS was a well judged package, - "was" in 1990 but things have moved on. Most tracked regularly cars are modified so if you need to modify an RS why not just start with a C2. The RS may make sound finacial sense on a collector/emotional basis but performance per £ it's poor value.
tony.t said:
paul0843 said:
the idea is not to have a replica rs,but the driving experience of a razor sharp,driver orientated trackday machine.add a rollcage...throw out as much weight as possible,not necessarily original,but lite seats,suspension mods,brake mods,engine mods...just looking for value for my buck...
If you know what you want and intend to keep the car for some time and track it regularly than what you suggest is a sound idea. In fact I'd go as far to say that if you want "a razor sharp,driver orientated trackday machine" then you're better off starting with a C2 and modifying it in any case. there are a number of such modified C2s that a standard RS wouldn't get near on track.The 964RS is simply a factory modified car and everything the factory did can be copied but would you really want to? The RS was a well judged package, - "was" in 1990 but things have moved on. Most tracked regularly cars are modified so if you need to modify an RS why not just start with a C2. The RS may make sound finacial sense on a collector/emotional basis but performance per £ it's poor value.
I had a lovely LHD 993 which had the original build spec of a GT3 --- had such a thing been available --- it even had an original 3.8 blueprinted engine, but in the end, it was just another C2 come sale time. So I ended up buying an RS !
anonymous said:
[redacted]
'fraid so - you're more likely to suffer from rust perforation than the shell losing it's stiffness from weak welds. Remember spot welding holds together most of the cars on the road today. If welds weaken in the way you imply then we'd be suffering from chassis legs falling off
One of the disadvantages of seam welding is that weak points suffer - this is probably a severe example but I've seen seam welded cars crack their screens from hitting a bump.
HTH
tony.t said:
paul0843 said:
the idea is not to have a replica rs,but the driving experience of a razor sharp,driver orientated trackday machine.add a rollcage...throw out as much weight as possible,not necessarily original,but lite seats,suspension mods,brake mods,engine mods...just looking for value for my buck...
If you know what you want and intend to keep the car for some time and track it regularly than what you suggest is a sound idea. In fact I'd go as far to say that if you want "a razor sharp,driver orientated trackday machine" then you're better off starting with a C2 and modifying it in any case. there are a number of such modified C2s that a standard RS wouldn't get near on track.The 964RS is simply a factory modified car and everything the factory did can be copied but would you really want to? The RS was a well judged package, - "was" in 1990 but things have moved on. Most tracked regularly cars are modified so if you need to modify an RS why not just start with a C2. The RS may make sound finacial sense on a collector/emotional basis but performance per £ it's poor value.
Edited by PolarExpress on Sunday 9th September 06:39
You will never be truly satisfied with a converted 964 to 964RS. The value invested will never be recouped.
If you must - there are converted C2s and even Carreras (!) for £20k with all the hard work done.
With a low budget better to buy a 968CS with LSD. Could just be the next big thing.
With a higher budget seek out a 1988 Carrera Clubsport.
If you must - there are converted C2s and even Carreras (!) for £20k with all the hard work done.
With a low budget better to buy a 968CS with LSD. Could just be the next big thing.
With a higher budget seek out a 1988 Carrera Clubsport.
fbrs said:
my RS on cup suspension is a damn sight stiffer than most. if your missus can keep up with me down my local b roads she can have it. i think just maybe my car is safe. you've just got to grab it by the scruff of the neck and wring it out, keep it nailed no matter what, then it all comes together and its brilliant. unless its wet. when i stay indoors
Maybe your B-roads are smoother than ours (Northamptonshire)? The driving style you mention above would see you crash and burn along for example the Welsh Lane near Silverstone (although I admit this particular road is smooth enough after it was last resurfaced to comfortably beat a Lupo!). But try the smaller B-roads in the same area (eg. around Stowe school) and a 964RS is practically undriveable and I would be confident of driving any ordinary small hatch quicker. I really enjoyed my RS and miss it sometimes, but it was crap on bumpy roads. All the road tests at the time agreed, so it's not just me.ChrisW. said:
964RS' each have their own character, and it is very easy to ruin the feel of a good one.
No doubt they do now after 15 years of repairs and meddling! But mine was barely 5 years old and 20K miles when I owned it. It was standard factory lightweight spec with 17" mag wheels. Very stiffly sprung and damped (especially the front). Magnificent on smooth roads or track, horrendous over braking or mid-corner bumps. Just a step too far for road use. Take a detour onto the circuit around your way and you can take a class win in a 24 hour race and finish in the top 10.
They are stiff sprung cars, but what Chris_W is saying is spot on. Obviously these sorts of debates are relative to what someone finds acceptable, but a lot of the German cars I bring over have had their suspension dropped to floor. This makes them feel much much stiffer and crashy, with heavier steering and less roll / forgiveness. In the uk raising the ride heights (especially the front) makes them much more forgiving and usable on the road.
Regarding seam welding, this is in addition to the normal spot welding, so the shell will be stiffer and cope more with the loads generated by stiffer suspension and bushings and stickier tyres. The shells (any shells) will lose stiffness through constant loading and stress from use. A better start point is for the additional seam welding. For any given budget on top of a 964 I can build you as close as you want to go to a 964 RS experience, including replacement of the roof skin with factory non-sunroof and all shell seam welding. There's not actually that much of it.
Depending on what you want to achieve I'm not sure the best start point is a C2 as the brake components needed to replicate the full RS brakes is significant. After all in my opinion the 964 RS brakes are the most astonishing bit, you don't just want to do the disks and calipers.
They are stiff sprung cars, but what Chris_W is saying is spot on. Obviously these sorts of debates are relative to what someone finds acceptable, but a lot of the German cars I bring over have had their suspension dropped to floor. This makes them feel much much stiffer and crashy, with heavier steering and less roll / forgiveness. In the uk raising the ride heights (especially the front) makes them much more forgiving and usable on the road.
Regarding seam welding, this is in addition to the normal spot welding, so the shell will be stiffer and cope more with the loads generated by stiffer suspension and bushings and stickier tyres. The shells (any shells) will lose stiffness through constant loading and stress from use. A better start point is for the additional seam welding. For any given budget on top of a 964 I can build you as close as you want to go to a 964 RS experience, including replacement of the roof skin with factory non-sunroof and all shell seam welding. There's not actually that much of it.
Depending on what you want to achieve I'm not sure the best start point is a C2 as the brake components needed to replicate the full RS brakes is significant. After all in my opinion the 964 RS brakes are the most astonishing bit, you don't just want to do the disks and calipers.
gt2-r said:
In the uk raising the ride heights (especially the front) makes them much more forgiving and usable on the road.
That's what I would have done to mine if I'd decided to keep it. Would have re-valved the front dampers with less rebound too. But that was my earlier point. The RS is bascially a big (and successful) weight saving exercise, with stiffened and lowered suspension. Not too difficult to replicate from a performance point of view if you're not bothered about copying all the trim details etc. Also easy to make it a better road car too. But it's only worth paying £45-50K for as a collector's item and I think that's a big risk as the market is currently on a high.Agreed, the brakes are one of the best features of the RS.
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