964RS....the return of the PIG ?
Discussion
I have watched this entertaining debate for a while now and still am not quite sure what to make of it all.
Clearly with any sort of RS there are only a limited number out there and so with values rising people are , rightly, concerned that their cash does not end up in a melon.
For what it is worth my view is clearly that if you want an RS there are enough out there to be able to be quite choosy and acquire what floats your boat. Once you know what that is then you might have the skill to find that yourself or need help. By " what floats your boat" I mean from trackday warrior that has lived , wears its scars with pride to factory fresh shrink wrapped and all the other permutations in between.
Lets be clear that beyond the shrink wrap special there is a chance that a road going vehicle will have been damaged, or broken bodily or mechanically. If it has been fixed properly then there is no issue in my view. It was after all made up from component parts in the first place. Would we castigate some of the well used Ferrari GTOs in existence because the tub was not original? Would we castigate a 60s single seater because the chassis tubes were not original? I doubt it. I would not be that up for racing either if it had most of its original bits in place!!
I do not see how that is contentious. What bugs me is when people, dealers or otherwise use these forums to pass on comment which is not factually correct or designed to obtain commercial advantage and that includes talking up the prices.
On the flip side it is good to know the history of a car. So perhaps the point is that we all need to be less upset to know cars may have a past, value them on the condition they are today and to judge that condition the car needs to be seen as is and what work it has had done to it taken into account.
Clearly with any sort of RS there are only a limited number out there and so with values rising people are , rightly, concerned that their cash does not end up in a melon.
For what it is worth my view is clearly that if you want an RS there are enough out there to be able to be quite choosy and acquire what floats your boat. Once you know what that is then you might have the skill to find that yourself or need help. By " what floats your boat" I mean from trackday warrior that has lived , wears its scars with pride to factory fresh shrink wrapped and all the other permutations in between.
Lets be clear that beyond the shrink wrap special there is a chance that a road going vehicle will have been damaged, or broken bodily or mechanically. If it has been fixed properly then there is no issue in my view. It was after all made up from component parts in the first place. Would we castigate some of the well used Ferrari GTOs in existence because the tub was not original? Would we castigate a 60s single seater because the chassis tubes were not original? I doubt it. I would not be that up for racing either if it had most of its original bits in place!!
I do not see how that is contentious. What bugs me is when people, dealers or otherwise use these forums to pass on comment which is not factually correct or designed to obtain commercial advantage and that includes talking up the prices.
On the flip side it is good to know the history of a car. So perhaps the point is that we all need to be less upset to know cars may have a past, value them on the condition they are today and to judge that condition the car needs to be seen as is and what work it has had done to it taken into account.
dawsongr said:
Lets be clear that beyond the shrink wrap special there is a chance that a road going vehicle will have been damaged, or broken bodily or mechanically. If it has been fixed properly then there is no issue in my view. It was after all made up from component parts in the first place. Would we castigate some of the well used Ferrari GTOs in existence because the tub was not original? Would we castigate a 60s single seater because the chassis tubes were not original? I doubt it. I would not be that up for racing either if it had most of its original bits in place!!
I agree. So a 16 year-old car has had a new wing, and a respray - so what (if it's been repaired properly) If it's been seriously bent, repaired badly and the seller is lying - then I've got a problem with that. There are people out there that will only buy completely mint original, untouched, undriven cars, that's fine, each to their own.
ruane said:
Going to keep it now, lot of time and effort to getting it right.
Seeing as the car took such a pounding on this thread, will you be noting what you have had done to it? I'm guessing you've spent a fair bit getting it right, if thats the case, it might (and thats up to you) be worth making the repairs/realignments/whtever a matter of record. i was more thinking that seeing as both your name and the cars reg are on this thread, anyone who may consider buying the car at some point in the future and who googles the car may well get to read this. In which case you might want to document whats been done to the car to sort it out.
TBH, it seems a shame to see some dealers being so actively involved in the caning of someone's car here. I would be interested to see what their response was if someone had posted a thread complaining about one of their cars. But of course that would not be allowed under N&S policy.
It's all well and good pretending to be polite etc. but the bottom line is it still smacks of s
gging someone-elses car off. Seems a little unfair given that the seller is being reasonably upfront about the car. And let's be honest, we all know that not all dealers are 100% upfront ALL the time.
So where is the difference? Place a private ad and you are "fair game" for the delaers, but place an ad as a trader and you are safe under the no N&S policy. Not right IMHO.
It's all well and good pretending to be polite etc. but the bottom line is it still smacks of s
gging someone-elses car off. Seems a little unfair given that the seller is being reasonably upfront about the car. And let's be honest, we all know that not all dealers are 100% upfront ALL the time. So where is the difference? Place a private ad and you are "fair game" for the delaers, but place an ad as a trader and you are safe under the no N&S policy. Not right IMHO.
scotal said:
i was more thinking that seeing as both your name and the cars reg are on this thread, anyone who may consider buying the car at some point in the future and who googles the car may well get to read this. In which case you might want to document whats been done to the car to sort it out.
I agree with Scotal. Pistonheads has a very long memory and any future prospective buyer will probably ask on here what people know about the car. If the car has a history it will all be dug up again - the so-called Dubai GT3 and the car which ended up on its roof at the ring have been discussed many times here - with each new potential owner getting the next version of the story.Ruane, I viewed your car when it was for sale in Harrogate (and walked away). Of course it's up to you, but I would highly recommend you keep receipts and photograph everything you have done to make the car good again. That way you can be upfront about the car when you come to sell, and your buyer can see where you've put in the hours to get the car right again.
In future I imagine our RSs will increase further in value and buyers will not necessarily be put off by a car with a history - as long as it has been properly repaired (look at a lot of 73 RSs, their history and the prices they are getting).
It will be good to see your car brought back to the standard these cars deserve.
There's a very lively 964RS forum over at PCGB. Come and introduce yourself and post some pics of the RS.
rubystone said:
ChrisW. said:
That was the very one.
..the one that Paul McLean stated had filler in the doorshuts...which was post the Autofarm work?...At the time I thought that was a little odd given their reputation....There was no work done post Autofarm or whilst I owned the car ...
Edited by ChrisW. on Monday 1st December 19:12
Edited by ChrisW. on Monday 1st December 19:12
sjm18 said:
TBH, it seems a shame to see some dealers being so actively involved in the caning of someone's car here. I would be interested to see what their response was if someone had posted a thread complaining about one of their cars. But of course that would not be allowed under N&S policy.
It's all well and good pretending to be polite etc. but the bottom line is it still smacks of sgging someone-elses car off. Seems a little unfair given that the seller is being reasonably upfront about the car. And let's be honest, we all know that not all dealers are 100% upfront ALL the time.
So where is the difference? Place a private ad and you are "fair game" for the delaers, but place an ad as a trader and you are safe under the no N&S policy. Not right IMHO.
I think if you look around at these track focussed cars, there isn't a single one without a history.It's all well and good pretending to be polite etc. but the bottom line is it still smacks of s
gging someone-elses car off. Seems a little unfair given that the seller is being reasonably upfront about the car. And let's be honest, we all know that not all dealers are 100% upfront ALL the time. So where is the difference? Place a private ad and you are "fair game" for the delaers, but place an ad as a trader and you are safe under the no N&S policy. Not right IMHO.
What is required is a fair and level playing field, and mutual respect.
A dealer is allowed to make a profit.
And a car which has been well repaired --- particularly mechanically, may well be better than one that has ever had serious work done.
But naming and shaming should, in my opinion, play no part in this --- even if it may be a little fun.
Who, in their right mind, would buy a car which may have been tracked senseless, without getting it checked ??
Buyer beware is always a maxim --- even from a dealer --- because there are sometimes things that even they do not know.
And as a matter of interest (since I commented on Paul Mc's old 993CS on another thread) IMHO the warranty offered by Specials Cars in Malton is second to none.
There, conscience salved.
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