964RS....the return of the PIG ?
Discussion
ruane said:
Congratulations to you porsche enthusiasts and dealers for your input in discrediting and judging the car before viewing it.
To be fair it appears that a few people HAVE viewed the car, before you bought it.You yourself have stated that it has only had routine servicing.
So unless we all believe in elves and fairies, the bodywork must be the same as when last inspected - correct?
Your best course of action - if you are confident of the bodywork - is to take some decent digital photos of the pertinent panel gaps (perhaps people can remember which ones?), and post them up here for us to see. Then we can judge on current condition, as well as photos allow. If it is really good, you'll get a really fast sale.
If however you do not feel confident, given the current recessionary climate I'd consider taking one of the offers, and then taking any complaints to the person who you had inspect the car when you bought it. It may also pay to drive it to some specialists and get some trade offers on the spot to see how they stack up.
Ruane the best advice I can give with this is to write an ad something along the lines of the battle scarred post above, if you ask nicely I'm sure one of us will give you a hand, as I've said no one has anything against you at all, I hope you stay on here with whatever Porsche you get next, but just be frank and honest, don't change the price if you don't want to, whether it is too expensive/just right/too cheap will be born out by how many viewers you get and if it sells.
Just put the cars age, mileage, spec, any extra's e.g. suspension, and then without going in to major detail say car has had battle scars over the years, car isn't perfect, but is a solid and most importantly cheap entry on to the rs ladder. That way you won't get someone trekking up the country (or further) and getting a nasty shock when they arrive.
P.s. I can see from the pic of the back end that no remedial work has been done since I saw it last.
Just put the cars age, mileage, spec, any extra's e.g. suspension, and then without going in to major detail say car has had battle scars over the years, car isn't perfect, but is a solid and most importantly cheap entry on to the rs ladder. That way you won't get someone trekking up the country (or further) and getting a nasty shock when they arrive.
P.s. I can see from the pic of the back end that no remedial work has been done since I saw it last.
It's a difficult one this....if you're buying an RS as an "investment", it's unlikely you'll really want to use it on-track, now that the values have risen to the levels they have.
If you're buying one because they are in standard form a pretty sorted track machine, then you'd be looking for a car that is not perfect, but is nonetheless of a standard that ensures that should you decided to "retire" it from the track, you know you can sell it on in the future.
In the '80s at least half a dozen genuine 2.7s raced in the Giroflex series...I saw several big shunts too...those cars are no doubt now nicely restored and their racing history "erased"....
I don't know what the shunt at Oulton was like...if the car sustained just panel damage and didn't need jigging (or conversely did need jigging and was jigged), then at the right price it'd surely fall into the first category.
I sold my RS because it was just too nice to track...the guy who bought it was going to track it but again sold it on because it was too nice...I doubt it's seen a trackday beyond the two I did with it in the late '90s.
So it's all down to price on this car and to just how good the repairs were...I'd be tempted at the right price too...but I'm not going to say what I believe the right price to be!
If you're buying one because they are in standard form a pretty sorted track machine, then you'd be looking for a car that is not perfect, but is nonetheless of a standard that ensures that should you decided to "retire" it from the track, you know you can sell it on in the future.
In the '80s at least half a dozen genuine 2.7s raced in the Giroflex series...I saw several big shunts too...those cars are no doubt now nicely restored and their racing history "erased"....
I don't know what the shunt at Oulton was like...if the car sustained just panel damage and didn't need jigging (or conversely did need jigging and was jigged), then at the right price it'd surely fall into the first category.
I sold my RS because it was just too nice to track...the guy who bought it was going to track it but again sold it on because it was too nice...I doubt it's seen a trackday beyond the two I did with it in the late '90s.
So it's all down to price on this car and to just how good the repairs were...I'd be tempted at the right price too...but I'm not going to say what I believe the right price to be!
Lemon yella RS said:
Loach your buying or so you say a 964RS not a peugeot 106! by it's very nature a limited edition special car.They don't pop up down the dog & duck or the local ford dealer. A fair bit of leg work IS required if you want to look for yourself! The very best way to do this is to actually look at 964RS's for sale a revaltion to you maybe, but true. If you can't do that You could of course pay someone you TRUST to find a suitable car for you but still the ultimate decision to buy will be yours and I'd guess for most sensible people that means looking at the thing too. There are a few well regarded specialists who i'm sure would be happy to help you along for financial reward. What you should not do is make a decision about a car from a wave of internet chatter. Several people have viewed this car in the past (including myself I think a long time ago)they have not viewed it now. Even then there is nothing stopping the viewer acting on there own interests or agenda's. There is also virtually no way of telling just how bent a vehicle is just by looking at it (unless of course it's folded in half 
) that's the job of a good chassis alignment rig and a trained eye.
So back to square one the only way to judge this car as it is now is go and look at it YOuRSELF or your trusted specialist. To get first hand knowledge.
Getting a bit irritating now. You looked at this and dismissed it as did a load of others here but it might be OK for me? Given that it's been established between the lines that the car is unchanged since it was viewed last year, just what is my going to see it going to establish? In principle, you're correct in what you're saying. In reality, though, in this instance, I think you're wrong, and I don't actually need to go to Pisa to see that the tower leans. If this guy was dropping his price instead of lowering it, I might feel it was worth a look. But given how this is all going, despite your point of principle, I'm 100% confident that the internet has saved me a load of bother here. It's the last I'll say on this. I don't have an RS yet, but it's worrying that most of those jumping to this guy's defence are RS owners. I don't mind a battle scarred 964RS. But there are battle scars, and then there are field hospital amputations. ) that's the job of a good chassis alignment rig and a trained eye. So back to square one the only way to judge this car as it is now is go and look at it YOuRSELF or your trusted specialist. To get first hand knowledge.
Lemon yella RS said:
Loach your buying or so you say a 964RS not a peugeot 106! by it's very nature a limited edition special car.They don't pop up down the dog & duck or the local ford dealer. A fair bit of leg work IS required if you want to look for yourself! The very best way to do this is to actually look at 964RS's for sale a revaltion to you maybe, but true.If you can't do that You could of course pay someone you TRUST to find a suitable car for you but still the ultimate decision to buy will be yours and I'd guess for most sensible people that means looking at the thing too. There are a few well regarded specialists who i'm sure would be happy to help you along for financial reward. What you should not do is make a decision about a car from a wave of internet chatter. Several people have viewed this car in the past (including myself I think a long time ago)they have not viewed it now. Even then there is nothing stopping the viewer acting on there own interests or agenda's. There is also virtually no way of telling just how bent a vehicle is just by looking at it (unless of course it's folded in half ) that's the job of a good chassis alignment rig and a trained eye.
So back to square one the only way to judge this car as it is now is go and look at it YOuRSELF or your trusted specialist. To get first hand knowledge.
) that's the job of a good chassis alignment rig and a trained eye. So back to square one the only way to judge this car as it is now is go and look at it YOuRSELF or your trusted specialist. To get first hand knowledge.
do you know what loach does for a living?
Since the car is in the North West, if there are any serious buyers out there who want a completely independent expert view on the car can I suggest that the owner drops it in to us for my business partner Marc to have a look at the bodywork? Marc has judged the Porsche Club NW concours for the last 8 years and I can guarantee that he will miss nothing in apraising the car professionally.
As an aside Him and Miles (our painter) are the only people I know who are more anal about their jobs than myself, so if you do want to get it 100 point they can do it, nomatter how badly it has been damaged/repaired in the past.
Can I also add that to my knowledge we have never seen the car in our shop, so these and my previous comments have been offered merely as a generic guide to a hypothetically damaged/repaired car, ok?
As an aside Him and Miles (our painter) are the only people I know who are more anal about their jobs than myself, so if you do want to get it 100 point they can do it, nomatter how badly it has been damaged/repaired in the past.
Can I also add that to my knowledge we have never seen the car in our shop, so these and my previous comments have been offered merely as a generic guide to a hypothetically damaged/repaired car, ok?
rubystone said:
In the '80s at least half a dozen genuine 2.7s raced in the Giroflex series...I saw several big shunts too...those cars are no doubt now nicely restored and their racing history "erased"....
Rubystone...my 2.7rs was one of those shunted in '89 in the Giroflex. Don't suppose you have any pics of the shunts you saw (or just pics of good old racing from the era for that matter?) I'd love a pic of it completely fecked for my wall!Been away for a few days and have missed all the fun on this thread, but I'm a little uneasy with some of the attitudes. It would appear that in the future, if we want to sell our cars, we have to have it photographed and put on display here, so that a few 'experts' can give it a valuation and then we can put it on the market. I don't believe that photos should be posted here just to satisfy a few people's curiosity. 
Maybe the seller is being a bit optomistic with his assessment of his cars value, but if people are serious about buying this car ( any rare car?), they should view it, drive it, take Ninemeister's offer to have it professionally checked out and if they're still interested, they should negotiate a price or make an offer ....maybe it'll be accepted, maybe not. I thought that's how one went about buying a used car. Not trying to patronise but surely the market will dictate what price it achieves.... it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it. All IMHO... I ain't a dealer! Best of luck to vendor and future owner. 
Maybe the seller is being a bit optomistic with his assessment of his cars value, but if people are serious about buying this car ( any rare car?), they should view it, drive it, take Ninemeister's offer to have it professionally checked out and if they're still interested, they should negotiate a price or make an offer ....maybe it'll be accepted, maybe not. I thought that's how one went about buying a used car. Not trying to patronise but surely the market will dictate what price it achieves.... it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it. All IMHO... I ain't a dealer! Best of luck to vendor and future owner. 
carreraboy said:
PhilRS said:
Sooner or later , a track car driven in anger will suffer and many 2.7 RSs, 964 RSs and 993 RSs have been seriously bent!
If this was my car, I'd keep it, drive it, have fun, wait and see how the market goes and then decide what to do...
RSs can wear their battle scars proudly! And if they are not prepared to do so, maybe they should stay under cover (no, this micro-scratches the paint, under a carcoon), in a thermo-regulated garage, with a dehumidifier, winterized for posterity.
Anthym to 633 Squadron comes to mind ... can someone post a link....If this was my car, I'd keep it, drive it, have fun, wait and see how the market goes and then decide what to do...
RSs can wear their battle scars proudly! And if they are not prepared to do so, maybe they should stay under cover (no, this micro-scratches the paint, under a carcoon), in a thermo-regulated garage, with a dehumidifier, winterized for posterity.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nNytCr0qbhM
loach said:
fluffer
nervous said:
i was going to say 'hes a dentist'. i thought it might confuse him
Globulator said:
Oh - I thought you were in gloves..
sleep envy said:
Michael Jackson impersonator?
Now that's just weird... I mean...I'm all that stuff. Get out of my head you guys. Out. ruane said:
thank you for the advice yes I will take it to a specialist in body work ninemister being the first choice or should I bring it back to TECH 9?
Without wishing to diss Tech 9, the limitation would be that they use Lloyds Autobody for their repairs and paintwork, and although Lloyds are Porsche accredited repair shop they could never repair a 964 (or 993/996/997 for that matter) as well as Marc. Come over and have a look at our work if you are not convinced, then just make your decision on what you see.epoch911 said:
rubystone said:
In the '80s at least half a dozen genuine 2.7s raced in the Giroflex series...I saw several big shunts too...those cars are no doubt now nicely restored and their racing history "erased"....
Rubystone...my 2.7rs was one of those shunted in '89 in the Giroflex. Don't suppose you have any pics of the shunts you saw (or just pics of good old racing from the era for that matter?) I'd love a pic of it completely fecked for my wall!Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff