RE: Porsche Cayenne
Discussion
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I think they should make a new 911 with the engine on a small trailer behind the car, just to annoy all the 'can't have an engine in the back' brigade.
Now you're talking - waterproofed and open to the elements - none of that Ferrari plexiglass rubbish - completely aircooled - but hold on a second - the engine had better be behind the trailer's axle.....
I can see some of your points of view here about selling out to tasteless Americans to pull in extra cash, resulting in more revenue for better sports cars, but I think it's still going to be a compromise. The v8 lump for the suv will end up in the 911 turbo. End of the flat 6 forever in the ultimate 911. Porsche 911 will be Americanised and loose it's unique layout. I'm sure this won't bother the fat cat directors who will see their shares rocketing though. The 911 will soon be as longer than a Maybach with more cupholders than a UCI.
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Apologies Ted, reply ought to have been aimed at Robert - no byline on the thread copy of article - that'll teach me to bookmark the last 24hrs......
Sorry it was misleading, depending how you got to the article Robert's byline wasn't displayed. Apologies to Mr Farago too! Can't have people thinking we're one and the same person!
>> Edited by PetrolTed (moderator) on Monday 18th February 18:24
I have an order on one it will be changed for the Wife's ML, I own a 996 now and really don't care about the wrongs and rights of wether Porsche should build one, I also certainly don't care about the fact that the only off roading it will do will be to mount the kerb on the school run.
All I know is that it will put £65-70k back to Porsche rather that BMW or Mercedes, this means that my next Porsche will be better than my present one which must be good.
All I know is that it will put £65-70k back to Porsche rather that BMW or Mercedes, this means that my next Porsche will be better than my present one which must be good.
I'm no big fan of Farago's writing but this is one of the best motoring articles I have read this year.
Even though I think the Cayenne will be a tremendously capable machine (whatever it's supposed to do) I donðt like the idea of a Porsche "SUV". Then again I'm no great fan of their current range...
Even though I think the Cayenne will be a tremendously capable machine (whatever it's supposed to do) I donðt like the idea of a Porsche "SUV". Then again I'm no great fan of their current range...
quote:
I can see some of your points of view here about selling out to tasteless Americans to pull in extra cash, resulting in more revenue for better sports cars, but I think it's still going to be a compromise. The v8 lump for the suv will end up in the 911 turbo. End of the flat 6 forever in the ultimate 911. Porsche 911 will be Americanised and loose it's unique layout. I'm sure this won't bother the fat cat directors who will see their shares rocketing though. The 911 will soon be as longer than a Maybach with more cupholders than a UCI.
Not sure if you're right Roadrunner - the "V8 Lump" may be quite an engine - no reason to expect a poor design. The Ultimate Flat 6 911 will still continue I think - the V8 will power a more touring version of the 911 - a chance for the sporting / touring compromise of the existing single 911 to be ditched perhaps and allow the flat 6 version to be more hardcore....
As for the Directors lining their pockets - I think it's the family that stand to gain most and their pockets have been pretty well tailored for a while. If there was any way however, to guarantee the Director's share values going through the roof, it would be via a sale to one of the big boys - they don't seem to be going down that route do they?
The real agonising decision for them with the new 911 design will be engine position not cylinder size - dare they pull the thing back towards the centre of the car - how far are they brave enough to go.....??
A return to the front engine Porsche's was inevitable. The last true production front engine Porsche, the 928GTS, was and still is a truly fabulous GT car, with its 5.4 V8, successfully produced up till 1996. It's interesting to note that the 928 was only dropped from the Porsche production range, as the 'Zeffenhausen' production factory was required to produce the Boxster range. I'm glad to see that Porsche have finally realised that dropping the front engine range was a mistake, and I hope that Porsche embark on producing another front engine supercar, such as the 928.
I've heard roomers from Official Porsche Centres on the continent of a return to a front engines supercar. Does anyone know of any information of this kind?
I've heard roomers from Official Porsche Centres on the continent of a return to a front engines supercar. Does anyone know of any information of this kind?
I'm inclined to agree Robert. At present, Porsche North America is deluging me with brochures and video tapes at my home in an attempt to whip me into a lather about the Cayenne. I guess they figure they have a live one, inasmuch as I've bought three new 911s from them in the last decade. But guess what: I wouldn't spend a nickel on an SUV, even if it is a Porsche. What their tactic does succeed in doing is turn me off to a company that I thought was focused on building sportscars. Porsche is realizing plenty of profit with the 911 and Boxter, and I agree that greedy expansion into a new product sector (in a market already glutted) is a recipe for disaster. Porsche is no longer a manufacturer soley dedicated to building enthusiast cars, but becomes (with the Cayanne) just another BMW or Mercedes or Jaguar or whomever. Enthusiasts have always supported Porsche (I was one of the handfull that bought a new 911 in 1991, when they were on the brink) and monsters like the Cayanne will do nothing to enhance Porsche's image and owner loyalty. The Cayanne merely serves to dilute the Porsche brand.
I was going to order a new Turbo, but honestly, the front of that gaddawful Cayanne looks like a bloated cartoon version of the car, complete with squinty headlamps and air intakes. The 911 will never look the same to me and it's aesthetic value is severely compromised because of its similarity to such an ugly cousin.
I was going to order a new Turbo, but honestly, the front of that gaddawful Cayanne looks like a bloated cartoon version of the car, complete with squinty headlamps and air intakes. The 911 will never look the same to me and it's aesthetic value is severely compromised because of its similarity to such an ugly cousin.
Excellent post robertr!
I wonder if the marketing bods at Porsche are paying attention...or perhaps they did some research that showed that they'd lose x number of people like you, and gain y number of housewives who would love a Porsche SUV (and y turned out to be a bigger number)...
Even if they make money this way, you are right in that it has suddenly changed into just another BMW/Mercedes/whatever.
I wonder if the marketing bods at Porsche are paying attention...or perhaps they did some research that showed that they'd lose x number of people like you, and gain y number of housewives who would love a Porsche SUV (and y turned out to be a bigger number)...
Even if they make money this way, you are right in that it has suddenly changed into just another BMW/Mercedes/whatever.
RobertR, when you say that you wouldn't spend a nickel on an SUV, then as an American I would venture that you are the exception rather than the rule. I can only imagine that the SUV type vehicle has been so successful in the US is mostly due to the fact that gas is so cheap. That's why you don't see too many in the UK (he said with a hint of bitterness)
To me, Porche's intentions are clear. They think that they have a positive contribution to make to the SUV market in the Cayenne. I wish them luck. Will it succeed ? Time will tell. Obviously, some people won't look any further than the bonnet badge and buy it solely on that basis.
I can guess that the car will be a cash cow and generate huge income for the company that will fund development of new cars. They're still independent remember - they don't have the luxury (or parts bin) of a sugar daddy like Ford or VAG.
As for the front of the Cayenne - come on ! Do you get a shudder down your back every time you see a Boxster, complete with it's 911 light cluster ? The air dams are probably there for a damn good reason - in that when braking you've got some proper cooling going to the discs.
Most SUV's on the market have the stopping distance of an ocean liner.
To me, Porche's intentions are clear. They think that they have a positive contribution to make to the SUV market in the Cayenne. I wish them luck. Will it succeed ? Time will tell. Obviously, some people won't look any further than the bonnet badge and buy it solely on that basis.
I can guess that the car will be a cash cow and generate huge income for the company that will fund development of new cars. They're still independent remember - they don't have the luxury (or parts bin) of a sugar daddy like Ford or VAG.
As for the front of the Cayenne - come on ! Do you get a shudder down your back every time you see a Boxster, complete with it's 911 light cluster ? The air dams are probably there for a damn good reason - in that when braking you've got some proper cooling going to the discs.
Most SUV's on the market have the stopping distance of an ocean liner.
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I can guess that the car will be a cash cow and generate huge income for the company that will fund development of new cars. They're still independent remember - they don't have the luxury (or parts bin) of a sugar daddy like Ford or VAG.
Dead right Greg, they need another proftable platform to guarantee independance. The economics of car production in terms of investment in development, tooling etc is mindblowing.
This is not greed - for heavens sake it's just sound business sense - of the kind that was sadly lacking in the late 80's. The Cayenne has been funded by existing profits and a share issue and leaves them with no debts. Sure the money could have been pumped into a different project - but which segment that would make more sense than the SUV route?
Robert, I respect your unhappiness that the marque is being diluted by a non sports car project but would argue that Porsche has had it's name on all sorts of engineering projects over the years that were not sports car related. I would urge you to judge Porsche on the individual cars they produce - I will happily eat all my previous words on this subject if the next era of Porsche sports cars are no longer at the top of their game.
I couldn't give two hoots if they produced buses alongside sports cars - If the next range of sports cars are good vehicles in their own right I'll buy one regardless of whatever else they make.
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I couldn't give two hoots if they produced buses alongside sports cars - If the next range of sports cars are good vehicles in their own right I'll buy one regardless of whatever else they make.
For gods sake Lamborghni built Tractors ,if this funds the future of the company more power to them i doubt they would stray too far from the core business
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