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997 Engine Fail

Original PosterOriginal Poster

1 posts

11 months

[news] 
Thursday 19th March 2009 quote
I write on behalf of my boss who has instructed me to spend a day a week researching this subject. I would like to hear from anyone who has suffered a similar problem. Legally he accepts he has no leg to stand on, but morally he is furious at how dismissive Porsche have been on what is increasingly appearing to be a fault with the engine of the 997 and wishes to build a case for professional presentation in the media based on the facts collected from this exercise. Had it not been for my initial research on the Web then he was pretty much accepting that he was an "unlucky one off" but my initial research has unearthed numerous identical cases accross the world. He is not internet "savvy" and is convinced there are many more 997 owners out there who are not "internet savvy" and will be unaware thier case is is not isolatated. As such, he has agreed a budget for me to place notices mainly in national journals and "High Net Worth" publications for owners past and present who have suffered similar problems to come forward.

The problem:

He purchased a Porsche 997 as they came out in 2004. It has been serviced exclusively by Porsche. He does very little mileage and as a result did not extend the warranty. It was last serviced in October 2008 when the mileage was aproximately 19,000 miles. A full service was carried out including full oil change. 1,000 miles later, during a drive the management system requested a visit to the workshop.

Porsche have diagnosed a fault with the sixth cylinder compression. The net result is a new engine. Like many other owners whom I have liased with the left hand exhaust is very black apparently from excessive oil being passed through a "score" in the sixth cylinder.

There seems to be huge inconsistencies as to how Porsche deal with thier customers depending upon where the car was bought and how it was serviced but the under lying fault appears entirely consistent.

It is the facts I wish to concentrate on and would be very grateful to hear from anybody who has had a similar, or most likely EXACT problem with the engine of thier 997 ONLY.

Should you wish to remain anonoymous then that is understood but the intention is to build a fully researched and accurate case and therefore your full support would be gratefully recieved.

He will be funding this research entirely from his own pocket and while initially the only costs involved are my time and publication of notices, ultimately the professional presentation to the media could prove costly. Should anyone who feels sufficiently strongly about this issue wish to donate towards this project thier donations will be greatly recived but the primary objective is to gather as many cases as is possible and it is in this regard that I would be most grateful to hear from you.

Like so many Porsche owners his loyalty and commitment to the Porsche brand has been total and it is only the dismissive and unsupportive response from Porsche when a clear fault on thier part is materialising that has shattered this commitment and led to this project.

Thank you for your time.

Mr Phish

55 posts

54 months

[news] 
Thursday 19th March 2009 quote
Your boss is "porschedisgrace" from the other failure thread?

For what it's worth, here's some advice:

Try and find a few similarly affected owners and start a class action, but that might be exactly what you are doing...

You will not get far trying to take on Porsche alone. Their lawyers are way too expensive for you to compete.

Establish the facts first by employing an independent engineer to write a report on the engine failure.

Be prepared for a long and potentially expensive battle if you decide to go a legal route.

Don't expect the press to be interested or, even if they are, to stick their necks out and run a story. They will be scared of Porsche's lawyers too and they won't want to be taken off the new model launch trips list.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Housey

1,280 posts

57 months

[news] 
Thursday 19th March 2009 quote
There is a lawyer on here I think, he's good and should be free once he has bh slapped his car washer.

getmecoat

Edited by Housey on Thursday 19th March 22:47

drmark

478 posts

16 months

[news] 
Thursday 19th March 2009 quote
You are reinventing the wheel. It's a five year old car, these things happen (not as often as forums suggest) and Porsche will rebuff any claim. The press won't be interested. Tell your boss to suck it up and pay for a repair with someone like Baz at Hartech, or get a full replacement engine (not as madly expensive as you might think).
And before you flame me, I speak from experience. I had exactly the same problem at 7500 miles when my 997s was still under new car warranty and Porsche wanted to repair it with a new block etc. Had to fight for a new engine, which I got but only thanks to the intervention of my dealer (OPC Bristol).
Oh, and I work for a national newspaper.
Sometimes life is too short.....

Burnham

1,364 posts

89 months

[news] 
Thursday 19th March 2009 quote
drmark said:
You are reinventing the wheel. It's a five year old car, these things happen (not as often as forums suggest) and Porsche will rebuff any claim. The press won't be interested. Tell your boss to suck it up and pay for a repair with someone like Baz at Hartech, or get a full replacement engine (not as madly expensive as you might think).
And before you flame me, I speak from experience. I had exactly the same problem at 7500 miles when my 997s was still under new car warranty and Porsche wanted to repair it with a new block etc. Had to fight for a new engine, which I got but only thanks to the intervention of my dealer (OPC Bristol).
Oh, and I work for a national newspaper.
Sometimes life is too short.....
OP, while I feel for your boss, I'm not so sure this is an inherent fault (I'm not a mechanic)..I'd imagine there are many happy owners with no issues at all. Porsche generally seem to be pretty good when it comes to sorting problems out through goodwill when these thing occur - has he aleady made his intentions and frustration quite clear to Porsche GB already?

Sorry to jump the thread, but Mark, why would you not have been happy with just a new block/fix? Just curious, as if this was suggested to me as being the correct way of sorting the issue out then I would not have questioned it. I'm not a mechanic. again.
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drmark

478 posts

16 months

[news] 
Thursday 19th March 2009 quote
At 7500 miles and still under new car warranty (ie under 2 years old), would you have accepted a repair? It was wrong from new and I felt Porsche should do the right thing - which they did eventually. Very happy now - 20,000 miles later. I am sure a repair is fine but a new engine and ancillaries (it comes with all the bits) is better.

sjn2004

2,468 posts

67 months

[news] 
Thursday 19th March 2009 quote
drmark said:
At 7500 miles and still under new car warranty (ie under 2 years old), would you have accepted a repair? It was wrong from new and I felt Porsche should do the right thing - which they did eventually. Very happy now - 20,000 miles later. I am sure a repair is fine but a new engine and ancillaries (it comes with all the bits) is better.
Out of interest how did you check that you actually got a new engine?

drmark

478 posts

16 months

[news] 
Friday 20th March 2009 quote
sjn2004 said:
drmark said:
At 7500 miles and still under new car warranty (ie under 2 years old), would you have accepted a repair? It was wrong from new and I felt Porsche should do the right thing - which they did eventually. Very happy now - 20,000 miles later. I am sure a repair is fine but a new engine and ancillaries (it comes with all the bits) is better.
Out of interest how did you check that you actually got a new engine?[/quote

I was unlucky, not daft!

thegoose

3,564 posts

40 months

[news] 
Friday 20th March 2009 quote
drmark said:
sjn2004 said:
drmark said:
At 7500 miles and still under new car warranty (ie under 2 years old), would you have accepted a repair? It was wrong from new and I felt Porsche should do the right thing - which they did eventually. Very happy now - 20,000 miles later. I am sure a repair is fine but a new engine and ancillaries (it comes with all the bits) is better.
Out of interest how did you check that you actually got a new engine?
I was unlucky, not daft!
I'm not doubting they replaced it but were you informed of the new engine number and have you updated the DVLA with this information?

IMI A

980 posts

31 months

[news] 
Friday 20th March 2009 quote
Surely first people to speak to are Porsche Customer Service? If the car has been serviced exclusively and within the service schedule at OPC Porsche generally always make some sort of contribution.

Wanta996Gotta

3,929 posts

37 months

[news] 
Friday 20th March 2009 quote
This will all come back to haunt Porsche as the 996's fall under £20k enabling more and more of the public to sample the Porsche experience which includes engines that fail. I laugh at the people playing it down as this type of thread is only going to grow. My car has been fine bar two RMS changes that the OPC spotted when the car was in for servicing. Your local garage who are soon going to be servicing 10-15k 996's will not spot these never mind bigger problems leading to more stories of engine failures. Its going to be an embarrassment for Porsche.

2something

2,127 posts

38 months

[news] 
Friday 20th March 2009 quote
Wanta996Gotta said:
This will all come back to haunt Porsche as the 996's fall under £20k enabling more and more of the public to sample the Porsche experience which includes engines that fail. I laugh at the people playing it down as this type of thread is only going to grow. My car has been fine bar two RMS changes that the OPC spotted when the car was in for servicing. Your local garage who are soon going to be servicing 10-15k 996's will not spot these never mind bigger problems leading to more stories of engine failures. Its going to be an embarrassment for Porsche.
More importantly Porsche could definitely afford not to care before, they had pretty much as many customers as they wanted - but now ...

996GT3Trev

106 posts

41 months

[news] 
Friday 20th March 2009 quote
2something said:
Wanta996Gotta said:
This will all come back to haunt Porsche as the 996's fall under £20k enabling more and more of the public to sample the Porsche experience which includes engines that fail. I laugh at the people playing it down as this type of thread is only going to grow. My car has been fine bar two RMS changes that the OPC spotted when the car was in for servicing. Your local garage who are soon going to be servicing 10-15k 996's will not spot these never mind bigger problems leading to more stories of engine failures. Its going to be an embarrassment for Porsche.
More importantly Porsche could definitely afford not to care before, they had pretty much as many customers as they wanted - but now ...
But now?, they earned 5 Billion in dealing VW shares, and 1 Billion building cars last year. Why should they give a toss about a few broken 997 engines?.


drmark

478 posts

16 months

[news] 
Friday 20th March 2009 quote
Good point Goose - didn't think about telling the DVLA!

thegoose said:
drmark said:
sjn2004 said:
drmark said:
At 7500 miles and still under new car warranty (ie under 2 years old), would you have accepted a repair? It was wrong from new and I felt Porsche should do the right thing - which they did eventually. Very happy now - 20,000 miles later. I am sure a repair is fine but a new engine and ancillaries (it comes with all the bits) is better.
Out of interest how did you check that you actually got a new engine?
I was unlucky, not daft!
I'm not doubting they replaced it but were you informed of the new engine number and have you updated the DVLA with this information?

dom9

1,242 posts

39 months

[news] 
Friday 20th March 2009 quote
Plenty fo threads round the world...

Worth looking on the 6 Speed forums:

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/996-11/

And Pelican Parts:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=46...

Edit... And this one: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=45...

Edited by dom9 on Friday 20th March 12:25

Try5t

435 posts

38 months

[news] 
Friday 20th March 2009 quote
Cases like this are a legal can of worms - before even thinking about issuing proceedings anybody really needs to get a number of people together, some very good / respected engineering evidence and some very good statistical analysis of the market showing something is not right - and then, just maybe Porsche may have no option other than to sit up and take Notice. If they don`t then that kind of sets the precedent for where you are going next.

Litigation is very risky, very costly and very emotional - the key is to take that emotion and the perceptions that you have out of the equation and let the facts or evidence do the talking.

From what I have read on various forums - there is definitely something not right with the quality of the Porsche engine since the 993 days - whilst all manufacturers have problems, it is my personal view that Porsche should be doing more here to work with their customers on sorting the problems - whether to purely uphold the future perception of the brand or if to just ensure that they try and recoup that "quality" tag they seem to have lost over recent years.

I hope Porsche do read these Forums as I think that sometimes there is a misconception on their part of where their duties lie. Yes they are a business and yes they make a luxury product - but if you pay a premium for a product, you expect a premium service and Porsche should remember this. Porsche customers tend to be repeat customers, and given the current climate and their strong financial position, perhaps it might be time to give a little something back to those who support you through difficult times as well as the good times?

scratchchin

Wanta996Gotta

3,929 posts

37 months

[news] 
Friday 20th March 2009 quote
Try5t said:
Cases like this are a legal can of worms - before even thinking about issuing proceedings anybody really needs to get a number of people together, some very good / respected engineering evidence and some very good statistical analysis of the market showing something is not right - and then, just maybe Porsche may have no option other than to sit up and take Notice. If they don`t then that kind of sets the precedent for where you are going next.

Litigation is very risky, very costly and very emotional - the key is to take that emotion and the perceptions that you have out of the equation and let the facts or evidence do the talking.

From what I have read on various forums - there is definitely something not right with the quality of the Porsche engine since the 993 days - whilst all manufacturers have problems, it is my personal view that Porsche should be doing more here to work with their customers on sorting the problems - whether to purely uphold the future perception of the brand or if to just ensure that they try and recoup that "quality" tag they seem to have lost over recent years.

I hope Porsche do read these Forums as I think that sometimes there is a misconception on their part of where their duties lie. Yes they are a business and yes they make a luxury product - but if you pay a premium for a product, you expect a premium service and Porsche should remember this. Porsche customers tend to be repeat customers, and given the current climate and their strong financial position, perhaps it might be time to give a little something back to those who support you through difficult times as well as the good times?

scratchchin
yesyes Well Said.

hartech

971 posts

47 months

[news] 
Friday 20th March 2009 quote
I agree but would they be bothered after making so much money they control Volkswagen and now have bigger fish to fry and a more secure base?

Baz

bennno

5,323 posts

99 months

[news] 
Friday 20th March 2009 quote
997 Engine Fail said:
I write on behalf of my boss who has instructed me to spend a day a week researching this subject. I would like to hear from anyone who has suffered a similar problem. Legally he accepts he has no leg to stand on, but morally he is furious at how dismissive Porsche have been on what is increasingly appearing to be a fault with the engine of the 997 and wishes to build a case for professional presentation in the media based on the facts collected from this exercise. Had it not been for my initial research on the Web then he was pretty much accepting that he was an "unlucky one off" but my initial research has unearthed numerous identical cases accross the world. He is not internet "savvy" and is convinced there are many more 997 owners out there who are not "internet savvy" and will be unaware thier case is is not isolatated. As such, he has agreed a budget for me to place notices mainly in national journals and "High Net Worth" publications for owners past and present who have suffered similar problems to come forward.

The problem:

He purchased a Porsche 997 as they came out in 2004. It has been serviced exclusively by Porsche. He does very little mileage and as a result did not extend the warranty. It was last serviced in October 2008 when the mileage was aproximately 19,000 miles. A full service was carried out including full oil change. 1,000 miles later, during a drive the management system requested a visit to the workshop.

Porsche have diagnosed a fault with the sixth cylinder compression. The net result is a new engine. Like many other owners whom I have liased with the left hand exhaust is very black apparently from excessive oil being passed through a "score" in the sixth cylinder.

There seems to be huge inconsistencies as to how Porsche deal with thier customers depending upon where the car was bought and how it was serviced but the under lying fault appears entirely consistent.

It is the facts I wish to concentrate on and would be very grateful to hear from anybody who has had a similar, or most likely EXACT problem with the engine of thier 997 ONLY.

Should you wish to remain anonoymous then that is understood but the intention is to build a fully researched and accurate case and therefore your full support would be gratefully recieved.

He will be funding this research entirely from his own pocket and while initially the only costs involved are my time and publication of notices, ultimately the professional presentation to the media could prove costly. Should anyone who feels sufficiently strongly about this issue wish to donate towards this project thier donations will be greatly recived but the primary objective is to gather as many cases as is possible and it is in this regard that I would be most grateful to hear from you.

Like so many Porsche owners his loyalty and commitment to the Porsche brand has been total and it is only the dismissive and unsupportive response from Porsche when a clear fault on thier part is materialising that has shattered this commitment and led to this project.

Thank you for your time.
Imho - He would be better off paying for a new engine than wasting the money on adverts.

The car came with a 3 year warranty, he didn't renew the warranty, its now 5yrs old and he expects porsche to pay. If a 5yr old TV or Washing machine needed a repair that cost 8% of its new value (eg say £25) most people would consider it good value.

Bennno

drmark

478 posts

16 months

[news] 
Friday 20th March 2009 quote
Hear hear...

bennno said:
997 Engine Fail said:
I write on behalf of my boss who has instructed me to spend a day a week researching this subject. I would like to hear from anyone who has suffered a similar problem. Legally he accepts he has no leg to stand on, but morally he is furious at how dismissive Porsche have been on what is increasingly appearing to be a fault with the engine of the 997 and wishes to build a case for professional presentation in the media based on the facts collected from this exercise. Had it not been for my initial research on the Web then he was pretty much accepting that he was an "unlucky one off" but my initial research has unearthed numerous identical cases accross the world. He is not internet "savvy" and is convinced there are many more 997 owners out there who are not "internet savvy" and will be unaware thier case is is not isolatated. As such, he has agreed a budget for me to place notices mainly in national journals and "High Net Worth" publications for owners past and present who have suffered similar problems to come forward.

The problem:

He purchased a Porsche 997 as they came out in 2004. It has been serviced exclusively by Porsche. He does very little mileage and as a result did not extend the warranty. It was last serviced in October 2008 when the mileage was aproximately 19,000 miles. A full service was carried out including full oil change. 1,000 miles later, during a drive the management system requested a visit to the workshop.

Porsche have diagnosed a fault with the sixth cylinder compression. The net result is a new engine. Like many other owners whom I have liased with the left hand exhaust is very black apparently from excessive oil being passed through a "score" in the sixth cylinder.

There seems to be huge inconsistencies as to how Porsche deal with thier customers depending upon where the car was bought and how it was serviced but the under lying fault appears entirely consistent.

It is the facts I wish to concentrate on and would be very grateful to hear from anybody who has had a similar, or most likely EXACT problem with the engine of thier 997 ONLY.

Should you wish to remain anonoymous then that is understood but the intention is to build a fully researched and accurate case and therefore your full support would be gratefully recieved.

He will be funding this research entirely from his own pocket and while initially the only costs involved are my time and publication of notices, ultimately the professional presentation to the media could prove costly. Should anyone who feels sufficiently strongly about this issue wish to donate towards this project thier donations will be greatly recived but the primary objective is to gather as many cases as is possible and it is in this regard that I would be most grateful to hear from you.

Like so many Porsche owners his loyalty and commitment to the Porsche brand has been total and it is only the dismissive and unsupportive response from Porsche when a clear fault on thier part is materialising that has shattered this commitment and led to this project.

Thank you for your time.
Imho - He would be better off paying for a new engine than wasting the money on adverts.

The car came with a 3 year warranty, he didn't renew the warranty, its now 5yrs old and he expects porsche to pay. If a 5yr old TV or Washing machine needed a repair that cost 8% of its new value (eg say £25) most people would consider it good value.

Bennno
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