price pattern: 996 gt3 to follow 993rs and 964rs
Discussion
I haven't heard of gear box or coil problems before to be honest but they are powerful cars that are often tracked. A little over driving or snatched or missed gears will ultimately end up with a potential failure. As a package the GT3 is very well engineered as are The 993 and 964s. The air cooled cars are less stressed in terms of drive train providing they are not over revved. Where the air cooled cars do gain is track day running costs. Being lighter and less powerful that the GT3 they are kinder on consumables so tyres, brakes and discs last a lot longer. That was one of the main reasons that I bought my 993. I can run it on slicks and it's still a lot cheaper to run on the track than my 996RS. Maybe I'll take them to a circuit one day and do some direct comparisons in terms of lap times, handling and over all fun. Would make an interesting article
chfs911 said:
Just seen Gungho's GT3 has sold again on PHs. Seller comments that the gearbox has had another 2nd gear syncro replaced. That's 4 rebuilds in 40K miles plus another 2 rads. Jason replaced these when he had the car 2 years ago and fitted Cup grills.
What with the coil packs going too, I see that I was right to avoid the GT3 in this case.
Maintenance must be significantly more than the 64 and 93 cars.
Get a Mk2 with the stronger box and spend £5k fitting PF or Alcon brakes, upgraded gearbox oil and brake fluid, cup rear toe links and KW suspension and go Mk1 bashing and RS chasing. And it's a comfortable drive home / useable every day.What with the coil packs going too, I see that I was right to avoid the GT3 in this case.
Maintenance must be significantly more than the 64 and 93 cars.
erics said:
Charles, i actually know a guy in France who raced these when they were new in the late 1980's, in the porsche cup. He still has his original car, and got it reg' d for the road! This was before the carrera cup etc... He was relatively famous in the Porsche circles at the time. Nowadays he races contemporary gt3 cups that do not even go on the road.
He actually offered to sell it (the 944 turbo cup) to me, before I bought the 64rs... I think he still has it. You reckon it is worth a bid?
"On dry tracks, the Cup cars were run on Magnesia alloys (8/9 X 16”) equipped with Slicks (245/255 ZR 16). The cars weighed in at 1160kg’s and put down 305bhp @ 5900rpm and 420Nm @ 3800rpm resulting in serious performance figures: The sprint from a standstill to 100 km/h (60mph) was done in only 4.4 s, a kilometer from standstill took 22.8s and top speed was 300+ km/h (The cars were clocked at 305km/h on the famous Hunaudières in Le Mans).He actually offered to sell it (the 944 turbo cup) to me, before I bought the 64rs... I think he still has it. You reckon it is worth a bid?
chfs911 said:
The history of the Turbo Cup Cars is unknown to many Porsche enthusiasts although the Turbo Cup was the first of the nowadays very popular one make race series that Porsche carried out and although the French Cup cars outperformed the 964 Carrera Cup cars which are extremely popular and getting more and more expensive nowadays."
Makes a GT3 feel heavy and slow!
Craig, me too re: the 964....
The guy who now owns it in France is very nice and he will love the car. I have first refusal if he sells it... He sends me pics regularly to let me know how the car is going. I can pass them on if you want?
This strd 964c2 was far more pleasant to drive all around and 99% of the time than my 964rs.
It had all the things that the rs frustrated me with.
I think a 964c2 could be made a close thing to its rs contemporary.
This statement is less true of a standard 996 versus gt3/gt3rs.
I already have a good feedback on the gt3 but will update the pics when i am back from Nice where i am now. I live just by the best roads in Europe (route Napoleon) and i do not have the gt3 with me. AAArghhh.
The guy who now owns it in France is very nice and he will love the car. I have first refusal if he sells it... He sends me pics regularly to let me know how the car is going. I can pass them on if you want?
This strd 964c2 was far more pleasant to drive all around and 99% of the time than my 964rs.
It had all the things that the rs frustrated me with.
I think a 964c2 could be made a close thing to its rs contemporary.
This statement is less true of a standard 996 versus gt3/gt3rs.
I already have a good feedback on the gt3 but will update the pics when i am back from Nice where i am now. I live just by the best roads in Europe (route Napoleon) and i do not have the gt3 with me. AAArghhh.
Craig said:
Eric
Good luck with the sale - I would advise getting some new photos done though as the current ones are a bit dark.
I too am selling my GT3 as not had a chance to do any trackdays and finding it too hard road use only (I am getting soft in my old age!).
Still wishing I had kept the 964...
Craig
Good luck with the sale - I would advise getting some new photos done though as the current ones are a bit dark.
I too am selling my GT3 as not had a chance to do any trackdays and finding it too hard road use only (I am getting soft in my old age!).
Still wishing I had kept the 964...
Craig
It is 24 Jean Pierre Comte.
His daughter is one of my oldest friends.
He had a very bad accident at Montlery in the 1990s whilst driving a 964cup in training.
He almost stopped driving, but got back into it and now drives porsches factory cups (996 and 997) and only porsches and only on the track. He has zero interest about road cars.
He kept his 944 cup for a very long time and said it was one of the best cars he ever owned.
His daughter is one of my oldest friends.
He had a very bad accident at Montlery in the 1990s whilst driving a 964cup in training.
He almost stopped driving, but got back into it and now drives porsches factory cups (996 and 997) and only porsches and only on the track. He has zero interest about road cars.
He kept his 944 cup for a very long time and said it was one of the best cars he ever owned.
chfs911 said:
DanH said:
jackal said:
very nicely put steve
but i would add that its not necessarily for everyone
a friend was chatting to the Stig the other day who was saying how much he hates racing 911's.. that dynamic is just not his cup of tea
Explains his crap laptimes in 911s on top gear then but i would add that its not necessarily for everyone
a friend was chatting to the Stig the other day who was saying how much he hates racing 911's.. that dynamic is just not his cup of tea
996Weissach said:
The 996 GT3 Mk1 is/will be an icon. The last homologation special (FIA GT Series) hand built by Weissach, 1st ever production car to lap Nurburgring in less than 8 minutes, 3rd in Evo's 100 greatest driver's cars of all time and generally loved by all journos who've ever driven it. Genuine race specificaton componentry, and the chassis IS compliant yet razor sharp. Countless forum entries of owners who cannot praise their GT3 enough.. what more do you need as evidence of a future icon!!!
erics said:
I think a 964c2 could be made a close thing to its rs contemporary.
This statement is less true of a standard 996 versus gt3/gt3rs.
I believe 964RS shares its engine with the standard 964 Carrera (albiet +10bhp through minor tweaks), and is therefore relatively easy to replicate an RS from a base 964. The 964 engine is very strong in stock form though.This statement is less true of a standard 996 versus gt3/gt3rs.
The 993RS is a bored out varioRAM (not CAM as most people write on the internet) unit from the base 993 Carrera. Not sure about the under-bonnet cosmetic differences, perhaps a different intake manifold (I'm sure someone on this thread could provide more detail), but again it is more closely related to the base engine.
The GT3 engine is an air/water cooled hybrid that inherits 964 racecar components, namely the strong crank and air-cooled bottom casings, GT1 water jackets with wet liners (incredibly strong), 959 derived cylinder heads - basically the same but with modified valve angles. The cam drive-train, intermediate shaft etc, is all evolved 959, while the varioCAM mech is similar to the 996 Carrera. The wet liners are bespoke, as are the titanium rods and lightweight forged pistons. All running surfaces are plasma nitrided as per race engines. There is no greater departure from a base engine in a specialised road model than this one. This, to my mind, adds speciality to the GT3 which is unique when compared with former RS models.
996Weissach said:
erics said:
I think a 964c2 could be made a close thing to its rs contemporary.
This statement is less true of a standard 996 versus gt3/gt3rs.
I believe 964RS shares its engine with the standard 964 Carrera (albiet +10bhp through minor tweaks), and is therefore relatively easy to replicate an RS from a base 964. The 964 engine is very strong in stock form though.This statement is less true of a standard 996 versus gt3/gt3rs.
The 993RS is a bored out varioRAM (not CAM as most people write on the internet) unit from the base 993 Carrera. Not sure about the under-bonnet cosmetic differences, perhaps a different intake manifold (I'm sure someone on this thread could provide more detail), but again it is more closely related to the base engine.
The GT3 engine is an air/water cooled hybrid that inherits 964 racecar components, namely the strong crank and air-cooled bottom casings, GT1 water jackets with wet liners (incredibly strong), 959 derived cylinder heads - basically the same but with modified valve angles. The cam drive-train, intermediate shaft etc, is all evolved 959, while the varioCAM mech is similar to the 996 Carrera. The wet liners are bespoke, as are the titanium rods and lightweight forged pistons. All running surfaces are plasma nitrided as per race engines. There is no greater departure from a base engine in a specialised road model than this one. This, to my mind, adds speciality to the GT3 which is unique when compared with former RS models.
bringing back a slightly old thread.
My car went today for full asking price.
There was not just one buyer. But a few.
I said it and i repeat it (i have even less reasons to say this than ever before): these cars (996 gt3) will go up in value. I think the beginning is now.
In my opinion, 996 gt3 rs will be the pick of the bunch, but very nice gt3 mk2 (the best allrounder) will also command strong prices.
The idea is that 996 gt3 and 997 gt3 prices will converge. Only my own humble opinion, but i already had an opinion before and being recently in the shoes of a seller reinforced the idea.
My car went today for full asking price.
There was not just one buyer. But a few.
I said it and i repeat it (i have even less reasons to say this than ever before): these cars (996 gt3) will go up in value. I think the beginning is now.
In my opinion, 996 gt3 rs will be the pick of the bunch, but very nice gt3 mk2 (the best allrounder) will also command strong prices.
The idea is that 996 gt3 and 997 gt3 prices will converge. Only my own humble opinion, but i already had an opinion before and being recently in the shoes of a seller reinforced the idea.
Contango, I started this thread, because I had a hunch.
Similar to the one I had when I sold my 964rs (at the wrong time).
My selling or buying of cars is based on what I like to drive as opposed to what I think will make me money.
So I sold my gt3 to go to something more suited to my current situation regardless of the market condition.
You reply was slightly cynical and maybe rightly so.
Maybe I know nothing. I sell at the worst time and I am an idiot.
But my approach of cars is not based on that.
I try to protect my capital and not buy overly depreciative price, but never buy with a view to make money.
Let us say that I try to loose as little as possible.
Craig, I was initially gonna go 997 gt3, but decided recently that I would get something a little softer for a while.
So 996tt or merc sl55 amg (flame suit on).
In the meantime I am still looking for a 'keeper' air cooled as a replacement of your ex-car. A 993 targa manual would fit the bill nicely.
But I will take time to get this one.
Similar to the one I had when I sold my 964rs (at the wrong time).
My selling or buying of cars is based on what I like to drive as opposed to what I think will make me money.
So I sold my gt3 to go to something more suited to my current situation regardless of the market condition.
You reply was slightly cynical and maybe rightly so.
Maybe I know nothing. I sell at the worst time and I am an idiot.
But my approach of cars is not based on that.
I try to protect my capital and not buy overly depreciative price, but never buy with a view to make money.
Let us say that I try to loose as little as possible.
Craig, I was initially gonna go 997 gt3, but decided recently that I would get something a little softer for a while.
So 996tt or merc sl55 amg (flame suit on).
In the meantime I am still looking for a 'keeper' air cooled as a replacement of your ex-car. A 993 targa manual would fit the bill nicely.
But I will take time to get this one.
no worries mate...
I saw a stunning midnight blue 996 tt manual today and that might just tip the scale..
Tomorrow am seeing a 12k miles merc sl 55 amg in black for v good value.
We' ll see.
I would have happily kept the gt3 for the special days etc.. but living in central London and using the car only at weekends (if at all) makes it unreasonable to have 2 or more cars.. That said am still looking for a nice aircooled-keeper!
I saw a stunning midnight blue 996 tt manual today and that might just tip the scale..
Tomorrow am seeing a 12k miles merc sl 55 amg in black for v good value.
We' ll see.
I would have happily kept the gt3 for the special days etc.. but living in central London and using the car only at weekends (if at all) makes it unreasonable to have 2 or more cars.. That said am still looking for a nice aircooled-keeper!
contango said:
erics said:
Contango, I started this thread, because I had a hunch.
Similar to the one I had when I sold my 964rs (at the wrong time).
My selling or buying of cars is based on what I like to drive as opposed to what I think will make me money.
So I sold my gt3 to go to something more suited to my current situation regardless of the market condition.
You reply was slightly cynical and maybe rightly so.
Maybe I know nothing. I sell at the worst time and I am an idiot.
But my approach of cars is not based on that.
I try to protect my capital and not buy overly depreciative price, but never buy with a view to make money.
Let us say that I try to loose as little as possible.
Craig, I was initially gonna go 997 gt3, but decided recently that I would get something a little softer for a while.
So 996tt or merc sl55 amg (flame suit on).
In the meantime I am still looking for a 'keeper' air cooled as a replacement of your ex-car. A 993 targa manual would fit the bill nicely.
But I will take time to get this one.
Erics, just banter note the smilies......,,,,it seems after owning both 64Rs & Gt3 for a few months each they are not to your taste, hope you find what you are looking for.....Lets see what rates, the economy and perhaps more importantly future legislation do to the potential use and values of these cars going forward...who knows? Similar to the one I had when I sold my 964rs (at the wrong time).
My selling or buying of cars is based on what I like to drive as opposed to what I think will make me money.
So I sold my gt3 to go to something more suited to my current situation regardless of the market condition.
You reply was slightly cynical and maybe rightly so.
Maybe I know nothing. I sell at the worst time and I am an idiot.
But my approach of cars is not based on that.
I try to protect my capital and not buy overly depreciative price, but never buy with a view to make money.
Let us say that I try to loose as little as possible.
Craig, I was initially gonna go 997 gt3, but decided recently that I would get something a little softer for a while.
So 996tt or merc sl55 amg (flame suit on).
In the meantime I am still looking for a 'keeper' air cooled as a replacement of your ex-car. A 993 targa manual would fit the bill nicely.
But I will take time to get this one.
I drove my 96RS at a track day at brands GP a few weeks ago. It's very rarely tracked these days but I needed to do so lap rides for a sponsor. I was stunned at just how good it was and how quick. 1.39 on old cup tyres is stupid fast for a road car. It would have put me half way up the grid in last year's GT cup round! It's not just the sheer pace of the car, it's the feedback it gives and sheer driving enjoyment. So close to the 996 cup car. No active, no traction, no driver aids, just a beautifully balanced chassis, fantastic brakes and a stunning engine. It is a true driver's car, very rare in the 21st century. There is no doubt in my mind that it is up there with the 964 ann 993 RS's in terms of driving fun. Maybe a little more intimidating and a little less forgiving but probably a little more rewarding for it in some ways. Peach of a car that deserves it's place as one of the ultimate driver's 911's. It's the suspension geometry that mainly separates it from the Gt's3 Mk1 and MK2 but this benefit is only really pronounced at high speeds, on the road very little separates them. The GT3's MK1 and MK2 are lovely cars and very good value at the moment. Pick one up soon before they fall into the wrong hands.
Are there any gt or rs model over 15 years old which have not increased in value? it is obvious the 996 gt and rs will follow along with all the other gt and rs cars in fact i think it is a iconic shape different to all the other models and will become much more desirable with age and as good examples decrease in number.
996Weissach said:
erics said:
I think a 964c2 could be made a close thing to its rs contemporary.
This statement is less true of a standard 996 versus gt3/gt3rs.
I believe 964RS shares its engine with the standard 964 Carrera (albiet +10bhp through minor tweaks), and is therefore relatively easy to replicate an RS from a base 964. This statement is less true of a standard 996 versus gt3/gt3rs.
Good post Jason have to say that I was impressed with Andy Tim's Mk1 996GT3 club sport , LHD car that might well start to appreciate. Sharp turn-in , enough grunt to be scary and a relaxing drive to Spa and back . Not sure about comfort spec GT3 models though , if all you intend to do is the odd track day then carrying that front splitter about on UKs finest roads or even negotiating Eurotunnel feeder road is fraught.
have to say that I was impressed with Andy Tim's Mk1 996GT3 club sport , LHD car that might well start to appreciate. Sharp turn-in , enough grunt to be scary and a relaxing drive to Spa and back . Not sure about comfort spec GT3 models though , if all you intend to do is the odd track day then carrying that front splitter about on UKs finest roads or even negotiating Eurotunnel feeder road is fraught.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff