Discussion
jackal said:
slow depreciation or lack of it
I lost about 1k a month on mine. Bought for 55k from OPC, owned for 16 months, sold for less than 40. Had I have sold it privately I could have got more although it would still be in my garage and I'd have taken about 100 phone calls from tyre kickers. Not an easy car to sell on.
996GT2 said:
jackal said:
slow depreciation or lack of it
I lost about 1k a month on mine. Bought for 55k from OPC, owned for 16 months, sold for less than 40. Had I have sold it privately I could have got more although it would still be in my garage and I'd have taken about 100 phone calls from tyre kickers. Not an easy car to sell on.if you buy now at 40k.. will they be 30k in a few years time ? I doubt it.
also, if you buy from OPC, sell to OPC .. thats overall mindbendingly more expensive than buying private, selling private I would have thought
jackal said:
nice post slippy
for me, the looks/cache/specialness would be everything as would the slow depreciation or lack of it
i probably wouldn't bother chucking it around lanes
i have my 993 for that or i could pick up an old elise
and tbh. I dont really do that sort of driving anymore
If I'm totally honest that's one (probably THE main) reason I've only ever owned GT 911s (except a 964 C2 which I hated and sold withing a month)for me, the looks/cache/specialness would be everything as would the slow depreciation or lack of it
i probably wouldn't bother chucking it around lanes
i have my 993 for that or i could pick up an old elise
and tbh. I dont really do that sort of driving anymore
In the past I've accepted the trade off in ultimate road usability of the GT models when compared with the "mainstream" versions of the 964, 993, 996 and 997, knowing that the residuals will remain stronger with the GT variants.
However twelve months ago I discovered (and I mean this genuinely, not as an incitement to stir things up) that ownership of the CSL blurred that long held belief that you couldn't own something special, quick, really fun to drive and comfortable that didn't depreciate at the same rate as the mainstream version.
It's true that only the cognoscenti will know what the CSL is. That doesn't bother me, in it's own way it is JUST as "special" as my MK1 GT3. There were after all only 422 RHD cars built IIRC.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Mk1 GT3, it's (IMO) the most raw 996 of the lot. A modern day 964 RS that's quicker, more modern (and still full of character) that's always an experience to drive.
The CSL however is more modern, better suspended and more usable on our pot-hole strewn roads.
Is it "better" than a GT3 ? I guess that depends on your criteria. For pure cross country speed over poorly surfaced undulating roads. Yes undoubtedly. But for pure invovement in the driving process. No.
The GT2 and the Turbo when judged by the same criteria, are no different than the CSL and the MK1 GT3.
AS I said earlier in the thread, if you can live with the GT2s "shortcomings" (and it sounds like you can) buy one, you'll love it, of that I have no doubt.
996GT2 said:
jackal said:
slow depreciation or lack of it
I lost about 1k a month on mine. Bought for 55k from OPC, owned for 16 months, sold for less than 40. Had I have sold it privately I could have got more although it would still be in my garage and I'd have taken about 100 phone calls from tyre kickers. Not an easy car to sell on.I don't think there's many so called supercars you could run for that mileage and length of time so cheaply.
As can be seen by the cars for sale on PH, most punters don't like buying cars like the GT2 off private sellers. Mine was in the classifieds for ages, I gave up and sold it to the two ever-helpful gents at 911 Virgin
I still feel I have "unfinished business" with the GT2. As you'll have guessed I'm incredibly frustrated that Porsche AG signed the car off with such hopeless suspension (for the kind of road use I wanted the car for)
My car had brake and suspension issues which blighted my ownership experience. They were all eventually sorted, but I felt that the dream car I'd wanted since first seeing one at an OPC in 2001 was a rough diamond.
I know now it could be honed to something MUCH more enjoyable to drive on the road (more compliant basically) but by the time I'd sorted the issues on my car I'd bought a 997 GT3. My first proper drive in that car highlighted just what a pigs ear the GT2s bodyshell and suspension was. . . . .
Evening All,
I`m a changed man........Well I was as soon as I drove a 997 GT3 and then even more so a 997 GT3 RS. OK they are never going to be as quick in a straight line as a 996 GT2 , but for overall abiltiy and useability the 997 GT3/RS knocks spots off it IMO.....
Someone mentioned on another thread, through modding and tunning you could make a 996 GT2 handle and feel like a 997 GT3, how much would that cost? ..Is it not just cheaper in the long run to buy a 997 GT3 first of all and just leave it alone, what does the 997 GT3/RS actually need ??
Thats my thoughts anyhow.
Cheers
Stevie F
B16 FYS
I`m a changed man........Well I was as soon as I drove a 997 GT3 and then even more so a 997 GT3 RS. OK they are never going to be as quick in a straight line as a 996 GT2 , but for overall abiltiy and useability the 997 GT3/RS knocks spots off it IMO.....
Someone mentioned on another thread, through modding and tunning you could make a 996 GT2 handle and feel like a 997 GT3, how much would that cost? ..Is it not just cheaper in the long run to buy a 997 GT3 first of all and just leave it alone, what does the 997 GT3/RS actually need ??
Thats my thoughts anyhow.
Cheers
Stevie F
B16 FYS
Slippydiff said:
Come on Stevie F. 'fess up, tell us why you really ended up in 7GT3RS . . . . . 
Come on, I'm waiting . . . . taps fingers on desk . . . .
Hello Henry,Come on, I'm waiting . . . . taps fingers on desk . . . .
Ok I`ll come clean, "certain" people in the "know" from this particular forum have guided me into my purchase of the IMO the best car I have ever drove. These "certain" forum people have always pointed out the short comings of the 996 GT2 but none ever seem to arise with the 997 GT3/RS, can you actually use the straight line pace of the 996 GT2 on our UK roads was there usual tone, and then they would go on to say, you need to spend straight away on the 996 GT2 to get it right and perfom as it should have done..again they would not fault the 997 GT3/RS...........From those opinions I got myself a test drive of a 997 GT3 then RS and I was well and truly hooked, words cannot describe how good IMO the 997 GT3/RS is In My Opinion.........The reviews I got from people off this forum on the 997 GT3/RS were spot on............I AM NOW NOT JUST AN ONLOOKER WITHOUT A PORSCHE, I AM NOW THE OWNER OF A WORK OF ART, ITS f
kING AMAZING, THE 997 GT3 RS......Henry (Slippydiff), Thanks again, you are a true petrol head, speak sense and are a gent !!
YOU WERE ALWAYS RIGHT ON ALL COUNTS, IT JUST TOOK ME A WHILE TO LISTEN (We got there in the end)
Cheers
Stevie F
B16 FYS
Edited by B16 FYS on Thursday 19th November 19:04
jackal said:
nice post slippy
for me, the looks/cache/specialness would be everything as would the slow depreciation or lack of it
i probably wouldn't bother chucking it around lanes
i have my 993 for that or i could pick up an old elise
and tbh. I dont really do that sort of driving anymore
...i get lots of my ownership pleasure at 0 mph which is as safe as it gets and this wobbly chassis bfor me, the looks/cache/specialness would be everything as would the slow depreciation or lack of it
i probably wouldn't bother chucking it around lanes
i have my 993 for that or i could pick up an old elise
and tbh. I dont really do that sort of driving anymore
ks doesn't even come into the equation (by the way, not something i have ever noticed, any stiffer and my fillings would be rattled out!). I love the way it looks and just openning the garage and seeing it there gives me lots of pleasure. I wouldn't think if abusing it on a track (an old elise would be much better for that) as i love it so dearly, I know i will get chastised about not getting the most from it, however i get enormous driving pleasure knowing that it is me, the car and the road. No safety aids to help out, more than enough power to get you into trouble very easily and a chassis and steering that is constantly chatting to you letting you know what the tyre/road interface is like. I know that i would make quicker progress in a turbo or such like but the essence of the drive would be completely different and wouldn't appeal to me. On a wet day on a poorly surfaced bumpy b road a 1.1 clio would drive around me, however i would still be getting my ownership pleasure. To the general public it looks like a chaved up turbo but to the discerning driver who recognises it for what it is you feel genuine levels of appreciation...that makes you feel good about your choice of car. As i have already posted, it is the sort of car that you just want to keep. It has slow depreciation, it is rare, looks great, performance to match 99.9% of cars out there, ownership costs are tiny compared to other supercars and it is the last of a breed of 911's without driver aids. I grew up dreaming of owning a Ferrari, now those dreams have faded. Jackel...you sound like a man whose mind is made up, go for it you will love it.
welshnobby said:
jackal said:
nice post slippy
for me, the looks/cache/specialness would be everything as would the slow depreciation or lack of it
i probably wouldn't bother chucking it around lanes
i have my 993 for that or i could pick up an old elise
and tbh. I dont really do that sort of driving anymore
...i get lots of my ownership pleasure at 0 mph which is as safe as it gets and this wobbly chassis bfor me, the looks/cache/specialness would be everything as would the slow depreciation or lack of it
i probably wouldn't bother chucking it around lanes
i have my 993 for that or i could pick up an old elise
and tbh. I dont really do that sort of driving anymore
ks doesn't even come into the equation (by the way, not something i have ever noticed, any stiffer and my fillings would be rattled out!) I love the way it looks and just openning the garage and seeing it there gives me lots of pleasure. I wouldn't think if abusing it on a track (an old elise would be much better for that) as i love it so dearly, I know i will get chastised about not getting the most from it, however i get enormous driving pleasure knowing that it is me, the car and the road. No safety aids to help out, more than enough power to get you into trouble very easily and a chassis and steering that is constantly chatting to you letting you know what the tyre/road interface is like. I know that i would make quicker progress in a turbo or such like but the essence of the drive would be completely different and wouldn't appeal to me. On a wet day on a poorly surfaced bumpy b road a 1.1 clio would drive around me, however i would still be getting my ownership pleasure. To the general public it looks like a chaved up turbo but to the discerning driver who recognises it for what it is you feel genuine levels of appreciation...that makes you feel good about your choice of car. As i have already posted, it is the sort of car that you just want to keep. It has slow depreciation, it is rare, looks great, performance to match 99.9% of cars out there, ownership costs are tiny compared to other supercars and it is the last of a breed of 911's without driver aids. I grew up dreaming of owning a Ferrari, now those dreams have faded. Jackel...you sound like a man whose mind is made up, go for it you will love it.
But we're ALL entitled to our opinions. I do however congratulate you on your candour. Try making similar comments to yours about the 1.1 Clio on a wet bumpy road to SOME of the 964 RS diehards and you'd be excused for thinking you'd insulted them personally !
I accept my views on the 996 shells stiffness may not concurr with all GT2 owners experiences. I did have the 997 GT3 and the GT2 in the garage side by side and thus had the opportunity to compare how they coped with certain stretches of road in N.Wales. MY experiences showed the GT2 in a poor light when compared to its younger cousin. You'll be aware my car experiemced some geometry issues that were finally put to bed by CG.
Even then the 997 GT3 was a far more biddable car on any road.
But I'm NOT disputing they are a great car from many perspectives !
Slippydiff said:
Overly harsh I think WN But we're ALL entitled to our opinions.
...very true, maybe i should have added a candid eyewink smilie. To be fair i think if you have cars to test side by side then that isn't how most people will bench mark their car. It sounds to me as though i should never step foot inside a 997gt3(rs), mind you i don't think my ability would be finely tuned enough to notice the difference. But we're ALL entitled to our opinions. jackal said:
996GT2 said:
jackal said:
slow depreciation or lack of it
I lost about 1k a month on mine. Bought for 55k from OPC, owned for 16 months, sold for less than 40. Had I have sold it privately I could have got more although it would still be in my garage and I'd have taken about 100 phone calls from tyre kickers. Not an easy car to sell on.if you buy now at 40k.. will they be 30k in a few years time ? I doubt it.
also, if you buy from OPC, sell to OPC .. thats overall mindbendingly more expensive than buying private, selling private I would have thought
As slippydiff just said he has 'unfinished business' with the GT2 I kind of feel like that too, they really are very special, if I had enough space and money I'd have one in the garage as a keeper. As I can only have one 'fun' car at a time I'm trying out as many as I can before getting back into another 911.
I am used to driving cars that are not perfect, my GT2 is std does not have a cage and the dampers have done 41K, but you know what, if you drive one enough you can find its limits, even mine lets you know whats going on and at no time does it surprise me. Its great to know that after market dampers can make it feel better but i am used to the set up as it is and dont feel the need to spend a load chasing a handling dream.
As long as a car is predictable you can adjust your driving accordingly. The only think that would improve the car for me on b roads is increased ride height as the large front overhand does make the nose dig in when you get airborne.
Interesting thread but perhaps making too much of its std shortcomings which can be driven around anyway.
As long as a car is predictable you can adjust your driving accordingly. The only think that would improve the car for me on b roads is increased ride height as the large front overhand does make the nose dig in when you get airborne.
Interesting thread but perhaps making too much of its std shortcomings which can be driven around anyway.
Pork_n_Beem said:
I am used to driving cars that are not perfect, my GT2 is std does not have a cage and the dampers have done 41K, but you know what, if you drive one enough you can find its limits, even mine lets you know whats going on and at no time does it surprise me. Its great to know that after market dampers can make it feel better but i am used to the set up as it is and dont feel the need to spend a load chasing a handling dream.
As long as a car is predictable you can adjust your driving accordingly. The only think that would improve the car for me on b roads is increased ride height as the large front overhand does make the nose dig in when you get airborne.
Interesting thread but perhaps making too much of its std shortcomings which can be driven around anyway.
when you hear these comments about 'Widowmaker', 'lethal' etc.. surely you have to take them with a pinch of salt... they are comments formulated to cater for the lowest common denominatorAs long as a car is predictable you can adjust your driving accordingly. The only think that would improve the car for me on b roads is increased ride height as the large front overhand does make the nose dig in when you get airborne.
Interesting thread but perhaps making too much of its std shortcomings which can be driven around anyway.
every car i've driven that has that reputation, turns out that really, you have to be a bit of a numpty to lose it IMO ... someone with a very limited experience & appreciation for RWD physics, poor listening skills or a total lack of car control skills etc..
Agreed, its a powerful rwd car with huge potential. On cold tyres and a cold day you need to plug in the brain to work the car up to get the grip, its not rocket science.
As mentioned before, get the front end right and the nasty oversteer tendency in a straight line is much reduced.
Great car and i would only consider a 997 GT2 next...
As mentioned before, get the front end right and the nasty oversteer tendency in a straight line is much reduced.
Great car and i would only consider a 997 GT2 next...
FactoryPilot said:
Sorry haven't read the whole thread so I'm not sure what your budget is but how about a 997 GT2?
a private sale 96 GT2 is just 42% of the price of the cheapest used 997 GT2 or put another way
i would have to live my entire life all over again and do everything completely differently if i wanted to afford a 97 Gt2 right now, and stomach the depreciation as the 96 has had all the wind taken out but the 97 is right there at the top
with the extra driveability it prolly would be aboutteh perfect car for me though
Edited by jackal on Saturday 21st November 10:11
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff