GT2

[consul]

993rsr said:

consul said:

Slippydiff said:

Ah, ambition and ability, oft mistaken for each other (and pretty much always with expensive consequences) ....
It's always struck me as better to practice this sort of thing in £60k's worth of 997 Cup car or £120k's worth of 991 Cup car

https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/73844/po...

https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/67334/po...

rather than trashing an appreciating rarity like the CGT.

But each to their own I guess.

It was on the cards, he was a really young guy from Monaco who roared into the paddock flashing his pit pass, straight out onto the track without any warm up and bang. The car hit so hard it catapulted the car in the air back onto the track. He was very lucky to walk away with a bruised ego.

He may be young, but he's certainly not short of talent. Bit embarrassing I'd imagine, but shows the GT demands the utmost respect:

http://www.audi-motorsport.com/de/en/wec/team/lott...

I was just relieved to see him walk away because I thought I was about to witness something awful, my instinct so close to the crash was to jump over the fence and help get them out
but they were fine and was able to drive the car very buckled off the track. You can see the skid marks.

[consul]

Slippydiff said:

993rsr said:

He may be young, but he's certainly not short of talent. Bit embarrassing I'd imagine, but shows the GT demands the utmost respect:

http://www.audi-motorsport.com/de/en/wec/team/lott...

Bit of an understatement there JC ! ! ! Cold PS2's rather than Supersports by any chance ???? Or just a big compression at Eau Rouge ?

They were PS2's because I remember comparing them with the Sport Cup 2 which look great. When are they going to release a 315 set ?

[unclepezza]

Jason, will you stop posting photos of green GT3 RS's!

[LaSource]

Slippydiff said:

The suspension is identical to that of the 996 GT3, only the spring, damper and ARB rates differ.
The standard map can be improved upon to improve drivability (primarily boost delivery and threshold), 540+ hp and similar amounts of torque can be delivered in a manner that whilst not quite as benign as it's NA brethren, is entirely manageable.

My initial experiences with my old car (now Consuls) led me to believe that the rear suspension needed Cup toe links (or the equivalent) to ensure the rear toe out/in remained stable under all conditions. But my second car disproved this theory. However for track work I'd suggest that the adjustable rear toe arms (and the lockout kit) would be the minimum requirement.

There are plenty of suspension options available, I've as set of Bilstein PSS9's that were custom sprung for the GT2, they made for the best riding/handling roadgoing GT2 I've driven, though I suspect for serious track work they'd be a tad soft.
I also have my Ohlins remote canister kit :

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=104...

Others have used KW's, Motons and ExeTC, all work admirably.

But I do wonder why you feel the need for something faster than your red 996 GT3/GT3 RS ? Have you considered going the "other" way ? that being air-cooled.
Slower but far more fun to drive, more tactile, more engaging and the right spec car in the right hands will more than quick enough to provide huge amounts of fun. And whilst the 996 does require some weight management to pedal quickly, it's nothing like that required to make a 964/993 (to a lesser degree) or an early car go fast. Food for thought ?

Thanks for the comments - sorry been away from this thread and didn't see the responses.

I have gone the 'other way' recently with a KTM X-Bow apart from a FI engine, its as analogue as they come (no power steering, no brake servo, no anti-lock, no traction control and no stability control system)

But a lovely 996 GT2 CS caught my eye and got me thinking...

Still in the thinking process

[consul]

unclepezza said:

Jason, will you stop posting photos of green GT3 RS's!

Lust is an awful thing to struggle with ! Lol

Hope your well)

[consul]

Food for thought, why buy an RS as a track car when you can have the ultimate, just look at this car !!

Has anyone bought a Cup car before as a track toy?

[consul]

unclepezza said:

Jason, will you stop posting photos of green GT3 RS's!

This RS was stunning, full factory cage the works.

[noneedtolift]

consul said:

Food for thought, why buy an RS as a track car when you can have the ultimate, just look at this car !!

Has anyone bought a Cup car before as a track toy?

I have. As a matter of fact I bought a Cup car, sold it and have bought another one as I thought I could do without but couldn't. I still love driving the road cars (have an RS, R and a GT2) but there's no coming back from the Cup cars really. Logistics can be a hassle but aside from that I can't recommend it highly enough. Am in a 997 Cup but will Change to a 991 in spring.

Steve Rance had a thread somewhere covering the subject quite well. The grey Cup looks the dogs.

[LaSource]

consul said:

Food for thought, why buy an RS as a track car when you can have the ultimate, just look at this car !!

Has anyone bought a Cup car before as a track toy?

That looks SUPERB!!


The only thing putting many of us off are the supposed running costs. Though I understand there are some less thirsty ones to be had

[consul]

noneedtolift said:

consul said:

Food for thought, why buy an RS as a track car when you can have the ultimate, just look at this car !!

Has anyone bought a Cup car before as a track toy?

I have. As a matter of fact I bought a Cup car, sold it and have bought another one as I thought I could do without but couldn't. I still love driving the road cars (have an RS, R and a GT2) but there's no coming back from the Cup cars really. Logistics can be a hassle but aside from that I can't recommend it highly enough. Am in a 997 Cup but will Change to a 991 in spring.

Steve Rance had a thread somewhere covering the subject quite well. The grey Cup looks the dogs.

Thanks for the feed back, I really want a new experience next year but for the track and Cup cars just seem to make sense, its the learning process that appeals to me. I have a friend at Silverstone who stores cars and thats what guys do, they pitch and jump into there Cup cars, have fun all day without worrying about a photo of your car is going to appear being driven on the track etc. 997 Cups are I think around 50-60K now.

[consul]

unclepezza said:

Jason, will you stop posting photos of green GT3 RS's!

Sorry Perry, couldn't help it.

[Slippydiff]

consul said:

Thanks for the feed back, I really want a new experience next year but for the track and Cup cars just seem to make sense, its the learning process that appeals to me. I have a friend at Silverstone who stores cars and thats what guys do, they pitch and jump into there Cup cars, have fun all day without worrying about a photo of your car is going to appear being driven on the track etc. 997 Cups are I think around 50-60K now.

And the 997 sequential 'box accounts for 40% of the cost of the car when/if it goes bang ...
Plenty of crashed and or tired cars out there that look cheap, but start counting the cost of overhauling them properly and then as a certain Mr B Franklin once said "“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”.... so factor in gearbox, engine, suspension, brake and driveshaft refurbishment/replacement costs and those "bargains" can start to look decidedly expensive.

[Harris_I]

LaSource said:

That looks SUPERB!!


The only thing putting many of us off are the supposed running costs. Though I understand there are some less thirsty ones to be had

I may be turning into a bit of a 996 bore on this forum, for which my apologies, but the 996 Cup with the H-pattern 'box is actually probably cheaper to run as a track car than a GT3, providing it's not been too long since the last engine and gearbox rebuild.

[LaSource]

Harris_I said:

I may be turning into a bit of a 996 bore on this forum, for which my apologies, but the 996 Cup with the H-pattern 'box is actually probably cheaper to run as a track car than a GT3, providing it's not been too long since the last engine and gearbox rebuild.

Yep, that's the one I had in mind with the 'less thirsty' point. I understand the gearbox maintenance regime is much easier.

[MDL111]

I have to stop coming to the GT2 thread .... spent way too much time looking at GT2s again yesterday. I will likely not buy another one (even if I had the money), but if I did ... this one looks amazing (was never a fan of the looks of the 997 GT2, so this addresses that nicely). Looks like it might be rather good on track too

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=...

Edited by MDL111 on Friday 9th December 08:02

[Slippydiff]

MDL111 said:

I have to stop coming to the GT2 thread .... spent way too much time looking at GT2s again yesterday. I will likely not buy another one (even if I had the money), but if I did ... this one looks amazing (was never a fan of the looks of the 997 GT2, so this addresses that nicely). Looks like it might be rather good on track too

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=...

Best you don't watch this then ....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WDBf9SH6kqg

[Digga]

Slippydiff said:

Best you don't watch this then ....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WDBf9SH6kqg

Oh yeah!

I saw/heard a 997 GT2 making a flying pas down Döttinger Höhe at DN16 - sounded similarly epic. It's simply not true that turbo cars can't have a good exhaust note, and that low-down bass note on acceleration is sublime.

[noneedtolift]

Slippydiff said:

consul said:

Thanks for the feed back, I really want a new experience next year but for the track and Cup cars just seem to make sense, its the learning process that appeals to me. I have a friend at Silverstone who stores cars and thats what guys do, they pitch and jump into there Cup cars, have fun all day without worrying about a photo of your car is going to appear being driven on the track etc. 997 Cups are I think around 50-60K now.

And the 997 sequential 'box accounts for 40% of the cost of the car when/if it goes bang ...
Plenty of crashed and or tired cars out there that look cheap, but start counting the cost of overhauling them properly and then as a certain Mr B Franklin once said "“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”.... so factor in gearbox, engine, suspension, brake and driveshaft refurbishment/replacement costs and those "bargains" can start to look decidedly expensive.

True - If you buy a Cup car, buy on condition and take someone along who knows these cars.

The 997 is not inexpensive to run, but not as bad as some make it out to be (see Steve Rance's thread, he strafes the subject of running costs in the UK). It is true that the box is the biggest factor, however costs for an overhaul have come down considerably over past years. The upside (next to the fun) is, that these cars seem to depreciate slower after a couple of years. Also, second-hand buyers don't relish tracked cars (at least in mainland Europe) which will refelect in the price that can be achieved come resale.

The 997 Cup cars hold their value quite well - in fact I sold my first 997 Cup for more than I paid. The market has slackened somewhat for Cup cars as well so I don't think I can repeat that with my current car but I don't think I'll be loosing Money.

The 996 is an alternative, however Porsche has increased the 996 Cup spare parts prices considerably so running one is not as cheap as it used to be - afaik some parts are even dearer as their 997 counterparts. Naturally, the price hike is focused on parts that are needed to run the car or cover typical repairs... The same strategy is starting to slowly affect the 997s, too.

The 997 is a giant leap from the 996 and feels much more proper race and GT car. The 991 is a another step forward, a lot quicker still whilst being a whole lot easier to drive (quickly) than the 997.

Whilst being the faster car, running costs on the 991 are allegedly somewhat lower, at least from an 2015 onwards MY car, or so I hear. I'll hopefully be able to comment on that this time next year :-)

Back on the topic of the GT2 - lovely cars but for some reason lacking appreciation. I have a white GT2 Clubsport which I am currently trying to sell but whilst I think mine is priced too high I feel the market for these cars is dead right now. Which is strange as they are very, very capable cars and also very rare, especially the clubsport variants. Love just looking at mine (any excuse for a pic):

[LaSource]

I think that is the question in many minds.

I sadly do not have experience behind the wheel of a GT2, however on paper I should think they are as desirable (if not more) than the GT3 counterparts. Or atleast any disadvantages in the finesse department counterbalanced by power, rarity, etc.

Plus given a bit of careful modification, I would think the handling of a GT2 could be brought a lot closer to a GT3 (with the additional power and rarity benefits).

Maybe being rarer plus less people having tried to intelligently modify them there is less words written about this on forums etc...?

[consul]

noneedtolift said:

Slippydiff said:

consul said:

Thanks for the feed back, I really want a new experience next year but for the track and Cup cars just seem to make sense, its the learning process that appeals to me. I have a friend at Silverstone who stores cars and thats what guys do, they pitch and jump into there Cup cars, have fun all day without worrying about a photo of your car is going to appear being driven on the track etc. 997 Cups are I think around 50-60K now.

And the 997 sequential 'box accounts for 40% of the cost of the car when/if it goes bang ...
Plenty of crashed and or tired cars out there that look cheap, but start counting the cost of overhauling them properly and then as a certain Mr B Franklin once said "“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”.... so factor in gearbox, engine, suspension, brake and driveshaft refurbishment/replacement costs and those "bargains" can start to look decidedly expensive.

True - If you buy a Cup car, buy on condition and take someone along who knows these cars.

The 997 is not inexpensive to run, but not as bad as some make it out to be (see Steve Rance's thread, he strafes the subject of running costs in the UK). It is true that the box is the biggest factor, however costs for an overhaul have come down considerably over past years. The upside (next to the fun) is, that these cars seem to depreciate slower after a couple of years. Also, second-hand buyers don't relish tracked cars (at least in mainland Europe) which will refelect in the price that can be achieved come resale.

The 997 Cup cars hold their value quite well - in fact I sold my first 997 Cup for more than I paid. The market has slackened somewhat for Cup cars as well so I don't think I can repeat that with my current car but I don't think I'll be loosing Money.

The 996 is an alternative, however Porsche has increased the 996 Cup spare parts prices considerably so running one is not as cheap as it used to be - afaik some parts are even dearer as their 997 counterparts. Naturally, the price hike is focused on parts that are needed to run the car or cover typical repairs... The same strategy is starting to slowly affect the 997s, too.

The 997 is a giant leap from the 996 and feels much more proper race and GT car. The 991 is a another step forward, a lot quicker still whilst being a whole lot easier to drive (quickly) than the 997.

Whilst being the faster car, running costs on the 991 are allegedly somewhat lower, at least from an 2015 onwards MY car, or so I hear. I'll hopefully be able to comment on that this time next year :-)

Back on the topic of the GT2 - lovely cars but for some reason lacking appreciation. I have a white GT2 Clubsport which I am currently trying to sell but whilst I think mine is priced too high I feel the market for these cars is dead right now. Which is strange as they are very, very capable cars and also very rare, especially the clubsport variants. Love just looking at mine (any excuse for a pic):

Very nice !