Wanted: Porsche 911 SC
Discussion
I would seriously consider a 3.2 from 1984 onwards, as they are a fraction more expensive, but MUCH improved over the SCs.
The main problem is galvanisation, which they improved with the 3.2... most SCs I've seen have been dogs in comparison to 3.2s just a year younger.
Other improvements with the 3.2 from what I remember are:
1) Motronic engine management
2) More power!
3) Less timing chain problems
4) Less head stud problems
5) ...plus the galvanisation
6) better interior was from 85/86, and better G50 box from 87 (but still check as these are approx changeover years)
In short, finding a good SC is difficult, as the only decent ones are those that have been fully restored at great cost. Finding a good 3.2 is much easier.
Rgds
Domster
>> Edited by domster on Monday 15th April 10:29
The main problem is galvanisation, which they improved with the 3.2... most SCs I've seen have been dogs in comparison to 3.2s just a year younger.
Other improvements with the 3.2 from what I remember are:
1) Motronic engine management
2) More power!
3) Less timing chain problems
4) Less head stud problems
5) ...plus the galvanisation
6) better interior was from 85/86, and better G50 box from 87 (but still check as these are approx changeover years)
In short, finding a good SC is difficult, as the only decent ones are those that have been fully restored at great cost. Finding a good 3.2 is much easier.
Rgds
Domster
>> Edited by domster on Monday 15th April 10:29
Autofarm have a lovely SC in gold with cookie cutters for about 12k, although I use the phrase 'lovely SC' in a wider sense as some people don't like chequed seats, brown vinyl seatbacks and 1970's exterior paint schemes!
PS UV - I tried a 3.6 T2 yesterday and it was an impressive drive - this had a Strosek exhaust on it and it went some and sounded lovely. Third gear *is* the gear! Problem is I never managed to see what the boost gauge was doing as I always had my eyes on the road above 0.2 bar!!!
Rgds
Domster
PS UV - I tried a 3.6 T2 yesterday and it was an impressive drive - this had a Strosek exhaust on it and it went some and sounded lovely. Third gear *is* the gear! Problem is I never managed to see what the boost gauge was doing as I always had my eyes on the road above 0.2 bar!!!
Rgds
Domster
Domster, I'm a massive porker fan but I've recently been looking into the possibility of an exige with a Turbo Technics supercharger. Comes with a full warranty and produces 370bhp per ton. Compare the acceleration with that of a T4 (279 bhp per ton) and it's superior cornering pace. Running costs would be peanuts by comparison too. Wouldn't feel to bad caning it's arse on plenty of track days too! What do you reckon?
No, no, no no nononoononononon.........
I spent a good couple of months on www.exiges.com which put me off completely. One of the guys there had the first of the conversions.
I agree they look cool, but they are made out of plastic and even in standard form they give TVR a run on the reliability/servicing side. The TT conversion doesn't help this area either.
Don't want to rant but spend some time on above website. I just couldn't own a car that may not start when I want it too
I spent a good couple of months on www.exiges.com which put me off completely. One of the guys there had the first of the conversions.
I agree they look cool, but they are made out of plastic and even in standard form they give TVR a run on the reliability/servicing side. The TT conversion doesn't help this area either.
Don't want to rant but spend some time on above website. I just couldn't own a car that may not start when I want it too
I considered the Exige, but their top whack put me off - could be outgunned by my Mum's Fiesta. Not having that in something that looks so purposeful.
I admit that the supercharger could redress the balance somewhat, but at what cost? My current Lotus lives up to its acronym, and the 1.8 puts out less than half the output in standard form without *complete* reliability anyway. Plus cooling would be a problem in a supercharged mid-engined Elise I'd have thought. And what about the gearing - I think Adrian Newey's Turbo Elise had a different box.
The handling is meant to be awesome, as you say - but a bit dodgy at the limit according to Sutters and Co at Autocar. And as for the build... light but a little flimsy. Say an Exige is 23 grand cheapest, supercharger will be what... 7k? ... that is 30k with uncertain resale and reliability for the future (I've rarely seen supercharged variants make any more than standard cars on the open market).
If you get one - I would love to be taken out in it, and maybe be convinced to get one - but it's the engineering and build of Porsches that get me going these days, rather than just their speed or handling. A moder nEsprit will outhandle virtually any Porsche on a sweeping A-road, but they are not for me (despite being my dream car when I was an adolsecent!). I've even gone off 355s... If I wanted a back to basics car, a Caterham Blackbird would probably do the job of a supercharged Elise for 10k less - I had a lot of fun in my sevens. Soooo, a Porker it is at this moment in time... but who knows ;-)
Rgds
Domster
I admit that the supercharger could redress the balance somewhat, but at what cost? My current Lotus lives up to its acronym, and the 1.8 puts out less than half the output in standard form without *complete* reliability anyway. Plus cooling would be a problem in a supercharged mid-engined Elise I'd have thought. And what about the gearing - I think Adrian Newey's Turbo Elise had a different box.
The handling is meant to be awesome, as you say - but a bit dodgy at the limit according to Sutters and Co at Autocar. And as for the build... light but a little flimsy. Say an Exige is 23 grand cheapest, supercharger will be what... 7k? ... that is 30k with uncertain resale and reliability for the future (I've rarely seen supercharged variants make any more than standard cars on the open market).
If you get one - I would love to be taken out in it, and maybe be convinced to get one - but it's the engineering and build of Porsches that get me going these days, rather than just their speed or handling. A moder nEsprit will outhandle virtually any Porsche on a sweeping A-road, but they are not for me (despite being my dream car when I was an adolsecent!). I've even gone off 355s... If I wanted a back to basics car, a Caterham Blackbird would probably do the job of a supercharged Elise for 10k less - I had a lot of fun in my sevens. Soooo, a Porker it is at this moment in time... but who knows ;-)
Rgds
Domster
OK, it's made of FG so you'll attract stone chips like flies to ****. Don't know about you but that would piss me off no end.
It maybe based on the K-series and whilst it's sitting in a Rover pushing out 118 BHP i'd be happy to buy one. More than double it and.....
IMO the car doesn't weigh enough for that amount of power, even the dude on exiges said it was a real handful.
Forget cheap servicing. My mate has a standard Elise and it costs a fortune. There are always things that need fixing and rather than work out what the actual problem is Lotus just change the whole, what ever...
Last I heard they still hadn't resolved the ECU issues they have had from day one.
Speak to Dom about running a Lotus i'm sure he has a story or two.
Having said all that, if I had room for a dedicated track car, it would be on my list along with an R500
It maybe based on the K-series and whilst it's sitting in a Rover pushing out 118 BHP i'd be happy to buy one. More than double it and.....
IMO the car doesn't weigh enough for that amount of power, even the dude on exiges said it was a real handful.
Forget cheap servicing. My mate has a standard Elise and it costs a fortune. There are always things that need fixing and rather than work out what the actual problem is Lotus just change the whole, what ever...
Last I heard they still hadn't resolved the ECU issues they have had from day one.
Speak to Dom about running a Lotus i'm sure he has a story or two.
Having said all that, if I had room for a dedicated track car, it would be on my list along with an R500
The ultimate (260) TT conversion is 11k last time I looked. Should result in a rather tasty 3.6 ish to 60 dash. Top end climbs up too, especially with new box ratios, another 1.5k ish. Just wonder if the raw experience of this will be more rewarding than a cossetting 993tt (my other favorite). Especially as my girlfriends getting a new audi TT 225. Might be a bit different.
Well that throws a whole different light on the subject... In that case I would agree with dom and look at the 7 based cars. Most of the bike engined stuff do mid 3's to 60. With the money you save on the car you could pay for a load of on track instruction and become a true fighter pilot
guys, given the K series constant desire to lunch itself (Head Gasget Failure - HGF is not uncommon on the MGF due to poor cooling) I'd be very concerned about supercharging / turbocharging a K series in a very confined space with limited cooling... Could get rather expensive.
That said I've got no idea of the cooling available on an exige, but I would say that the K series in 1.8 form is certainly susceptible to HGF if cooling is less than optimal. This problem affects the elise less than the MGF because the elise has good cooling...
That said I've got no idea of the cooling available on an exige, but I would say that the K series in 1.8 form is certainly susceptible to HGF if cooling is less than optimal. This problem affects the elise less than the MGF because the elise has good cooling...
I do fancy getting in some decent track day action and proper training. I like the idea of cheaper tyres and pads/discs for that reason. Wouldn't go down the 7 route as I fancy being dry and warm in the colder months. I've seen an uprated alternator for the exige before, they mentioned better cooling from it. I'm sure TT would take this into account. The magazine reviews seem to think the conversion is v thorough. They take 8 weeks for the full job, stripping down the whole engine. Don't know if it makes any difference but it wouldn't have the strain of running A/C, as the bracket for this is used for the supercharger, no room left. I guess uprated fans are included. I've also heard of water spraying jets used for motorsport cooling before too. Might be of use?
Sounds like a can of worms to me.
An Exige without air con alone sounds like a sweaty proposition for a start.
The rawness and wind in the hair of a Caterham is what makes them so special - on a sunny day they can be even more fun than an Elise, and I still prefer their handling. Sure, they can leak the odd drop of water from the hood in a rainstorm, but they are pretty dry - I ran them as everday commuter cars, inc in deep snow! Their lack of doors/windows/creature comforts make them as close to a formula ford as you get on the roads (I drove one around Goodwood and it was virtually identical in all criteria to the seven I owned!).
Roadrunner - if you have never driven a Caterham, you must do. A Caterham Blackbird or Superlight R would have you grinning from ear to ear for less than 20k all in.
Above that:
- If you want comfort and all-round performance get a 993TT.
- If you want performance and posing power for similar money, get an Ultima GTR with a 550bhp engine (they're even quicker than supercharged Exiges as they have 500bhp per tonne).
- If you want the absolutely rawest track/road car I think a Radical SR3 would do the business.
After these choices, I really can't see where a Supercharged Exige would fit in? It would be outhandled by the SR3, outrefined by the 993TT and outposed/outperformed by the Ultima GTR.
Rgds
Domster
An Exige without air con alone sounds like a sweaty proposition for a start.
The rawness and wind in the hair of a Caterham is what makes them so special - on a sunny day they can be even more fun than an Elise, and I still prefer their handling. Sure, they can leak the odd drop of water from the hood in a rainstorm, but they are pretty dry - I ran them as everday commuter cars, inc in deep snow! Their lack of doors/windows/creature comforts make them as close to a formula ford as you get on the roads (I drove one around Goodwood and it was virtually identical in all criteria to the seven I owned!).
Roadrunner - if you have never driven a Caterham, you must do. A Caterham Blackbird or Superlight R would have you grinning from ear to ear for less than 20k all in.
Above that:
- If you want comfort and all-round performance get a 993TT.
- If you want performance and posing power for similar money, get an Ultima GTR with a 550bhp engine (they're even quicker than supercharged Exiges as they have 500bhp per tonne).
- If you want the absolutely rawest track/road car I think a Radical SR3 would do the business.
After these choices, I really can't see where a Supercharged Exige would fit in? It would be outhandled by the SR3, outrefined by the 993TT and outposed/outperformed by the Ultima GTR.
Rgds
Domster
I see the exige as a bit of a balance between everyday practicality and track day performance, without the worry of expensive tyres / repairs looming. I'm sure the ultra light 7's are better on the track, as is a 911 being more comfy on the road. But the exige is somewhere in between. It can do both.
Yes, the GTR is as good, or better, but costs 75k factory built. Personally I don't think it's worth that. I would rather have a 993tt and a 7 megabird for that much cash. Or a GT3 (another compromise).
I'll need to drive a few to get an idea closer to the time.
Yes, the GTR is as good, or better, but costs 75k factory built. Personally I don't think it's worth that. I would rather have a 993tt and a 7 megabird for that much cash. Or a GT3 (another compromise).
I'll need to drive a few to get an idea closer to the time.
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