Good news for panamera fans looking for a bargain!
Discussion
I had a 24 hr test drive of a PDK turbo, an awesome piece of kit. The test drive did the proposed job and I very nearly signed on the dotted line until the sensible voice in my head reminded me that I only had to wait for 5 years to pick one up for a song. Just a very capable car and not ugly from the inside 
I think the question over it's looks will continue ad infinitum but 2 points. From some angles the car does look stunning. When you're driving one you sometimes come back to it and think wow, what a stunning car. Other times you don't. Porsche seem to be a bit formulaic in their photographic angles and I'm not sure the Panamera works with those angles.
The most important thing though is that like children all owners will think the car is a stunner. No one thinks their kids are ugly. Other people's kids are ugly for sure, but yours are gorgeous. The reason? Your love for them means you can only see their inner beauty. The Panamera is much the same. It's such a great car to drive you can only see the inner beauty to the point where sometimes it hurts.
If you haven't driven one, and driven one properly, not just for a quick blast somewhere, then all you can see is the outside and in fact if you dislike the concept of a large Porsche you will probably project that hatred into what you think your eyes see.
Any car trying to keep occupant space to a maximum in the back will look a bit odd.
Henry
The most important thing though is that like children all owners will think the car is a stunner. No one thinks their kids are ugly. Other people's kids are ugly for sure, but yours are gorgeous. The reason? Your love for them means you can only see their inner beauty. The Panamera is much the same. It's such a great car to drive you can only see the inner beauty to the point where sometimes it hurts.
If you haven't driven one, and driven one properly, not just for a quick blast somewhere, then all you can see is the outside and in fact if you dislike the concept of a large Porsche you will probably project that hatred into what you think your eyes see.
Any car trying to keep occupant space to a maximum in the back will look a bit odd.
Henry
Mr F is spot on.
As I posted previously RE the V6 OPC MS lent me for the weekend, it is a fantastic car and got nothing but praise everywhere I took it in my 400 mile trip - from Bournemouth to Dorset to Stonehenge.
I'd go out and find a great woman to father my children just so I could buy a used Turbo in a few years...
It really is that good.
As I posted previously RE the V6 OPC MS lent me for the weekend, it is a fantastic car and got nothing but praise everywhere I took it in my 400 mile trip - from Bournemouth to Dorset to Stonehenge.
I'd go out and find a great woman to father my children just so I could buy a used Turbo in a few years...
It really is that good.
Henry-F said:
I think the question over it's looks will continue ad infinitum but 2 points. From some angles the car does look stunning. When you're driving one you sometimes come back to it and think wow, what a stunning car. Other times you don't. Porsche seem to be a bit formulaic in their photographic angles and I'm not sure the Panamera works with those angles.
The most important thing though is that like children all owners will think the car is a stunner. No one thinks their kids are ugly. Other people's kids are ugly for sure, but yours are gorgeous. The reason? Your love for them means you can only see their inner beauty. The Panamera is much the same. It's such a great car to drive you can only see the inner beauty to the point where sometimes it hurts.
If you haven't driven one, and driven one properly, not just for a quick blast somewhere, then all you can see is the outside and in fact if you dislike the concept of a large Porsche you will probably project that hatred into what you think your eyes see.
Any car trying to keep occupant space to a maximum in the back will look a bit odd.
Henry
How long until you start having them on the lot, Henry?The most important thing though is that like children all owners will think the car is a stunner. No one thinks their kids are ugly. Other people's kids are ugly for sure, but yours are gorgeous. The reason? Your love for them means you can only see their inner beauty. The Panamera is much the same. It's such a great car to drive you can only see the inner beauty to the point where sometimes it hurts.
If you haven't driven one, and driven one properly, not just for a quick blast somewhere, then all you can see is the outside and in fact if you dislike the concept of a large Porsche you will probably project that hatred into what you think your eyes see.
Any car trying to keep occupant space to a maximum in the back will look a bit odd.
Henry
The problem with the Panamera (like the old Cayenne) is the awkward design. It looks wrong.
No one doubts their dynamic qualities, but it beggars belief that Porsche released both models with such ugly styling. This has clearly compromised sales in many markets, such as the UK, and will impact on residuals.
Porsche may give it 'facelifts' in future years, as they did with the old Cayenne, but the problems are too fundemental. It won't be until it gets a proper re-skin (like the new 2010 Cayenne has) that we'll see the Panamera looking desirable - and that could be six years away.
If only Porsche had got the design right at outset, we could be looking at demand out-stripping supply and used prices commanding near list.
No one doubts their dynamic qualities, but it beggars belief that Porsche released both models with such ugly styling. This has clearly compromised sales in many markets, such as the UK, and will impact on residuals.
Porsche may give it 'facelifts' in future years, as they did with the old Cayenne, but the problems are too fundemental. It won't be until it gets a proper re-skin (like the new 2010 Cayenne has) that we'll see the Panamera looking desirable - and that could be six years away.
If only Porsche had got the design right at outset, we could be looking at demand out-stripping supply and used prices commanding near list.
Mermaid said:
clorenzen said:
Porsche sold 26.000 Panameras in the last financial year and 6000 in Los Angeles alone - go figure.
If I lived in LA and it's wide roads & decent sized parking places, I'd buy one of these beasts.
Those are markets where I understand the Panamera is selling well. I've seen a few in London, and boy, do they look big on the roads. They do (still) look less elegant than the S class or the 7 series BMW, but maybe those two have grown on everyone already. Will they make a big impact on the fleet vehicles/company car segment? I doubt it given the running costs and depreciation (must be the highest in its class, said class likely being dominaed still by Merc's S).
Panamera. Not for the UK market really, but certainly so for markets with big wide roads and low fuel costs. When Henry-F starts selling them, I reckon fuel will be around £6/gallon in the UK. That looks like sometime next year. And who knows, Henry may get lots more when the austerity packages really do kick in (and all those private setor firms making money off the public sector's local authorities, quangos and central departments become financially stretched!).
Still, what do I know? I probably don't own a Panamera, and haven't leased one, so I am likely unqualified to comment, no?
Let's put the Panamera into perspective chaps. It's for people who aren't short of a few quid. Would you spend £50k plus renting a boat for the weekend, would you spend £500 on a bottle of wine in a restaurant or £20 a drink for a round with some mates, £5,000 on an outfit for the missus, £100k on a kitchen or £6,000 a person to fly to New York.
People do these things every day. When it's on in January take yourself off to Excel for the day and have a wander round the boat show. Every boat there is owned by someone by the end of the show (except for that bloody ugly covered in flybridge thing), and they've taken orders for more besides.
If you have to debate the cost of ownership then you cant afford one. It's not like an old 911 when providing you can afford one then you can afford one. With a Panamera, Bentley, Merc, BMW and so on you have to be able to not only afford to buy one but to live with the fact that you can't cash out and see most of your money back. Ownership is going to cost you. But it's part of your lifestyle and you use those things to justify all the hard work you put in.
You already have a lovely house, have the weekly shopping bills covered and take care of the raft of bills which make up modern life. This is how you choose to spend the spare money that's left over.
Panameras are made in such small numbers that you only need to find a few customers every year.
Henry
People do these things every day. When it's on in January take yourself off to Excel for the day and have a wander round the boat show. Every boat there is owned by someone by the end of the show (except for that bloody ugly covered in flybridge thing), and they've taken orders for more besides.
If you have to debate the cost of ownership then you cant afford one. It's not like an old 911 when providing you can afford one then you can afford one. With a Panamera, Bentley, Merc, BMW and so on you have to be able to not only afford to buy one but to live with the fact that you can't cash out and see most of your money back. Ownership is going to cost you. But it's part of your lifestyle and you use those things to justify all the hard work you put in.
You already have a lovely house, have the weekly shopping bills covered and take care of the raft of bills which make up modern life. This is how you choose to spend the spare money that's left over.
Panameras are made in such small numbers that you only need to find a few customers every year.
Henry
Henry-F said:
Let's put the Panamera into perspective chaps. It's for people who aren't short of a few quid. Would you spend £50k plus renting a boat for the weekend, would you spend £500 on a bottle of wine in a restaurant or £20 a drink for a round with some mates, £5,000 on an outfit for the missus, £100k on a kitchen or £6,000 a person to fly to New York.
People do these things every day. When it's on in January take yourself off to Excel for the day and have a wander round the boat show. Every boat there is owned by someone by the end of the show (except for that bloody ugly covered in flybridge thing), and they've taken orders for more besides.
If you have to debate the cost of ownership then you cant afford one. It's not like an old 911 when providing you can afford one then you can afford one. With a Panamera, Bentley, Merc, BMW and so on you have to be able to not only afford to buy one but to live with the fact that you can't cash out and see most of your money back. Ownership is going to cost you. But it's part of your lifestyle and you use those things to justify all the hard work you put in.
You already have a lovely house, have the weekly shopping bills covered and take care of the raft of bills which make up modern life. This is how you choose to spend the spare money that's left over.
Panameras are made in such small numbers that you only need to find a few customers every year.
Henry
I would not call 26.000 a "small" number for starters. This is probably one of Porsche's biggest sales successes ever. The margins must be huge on that car as it has lifted the average sales price per car at Porsche quite significantly. Personally I don't like it but there are plenty of folks that do - apparently. People do these things every day. When it's on in January take yourself off to Excel for the day and have a wander round the boat show. Every boat there is owned by someone by the end of the show (except for that bloody ugly covered in flybridge thing), and they've taken orders for more besides.
If you have to debate the cost of ownership then you cant afford one. It's not like an old 911 when providing you can afford one then you can afford one. With a Panamera, Bentley, Merc, BMW and so on you have to be able to not only afford to buy one but to live with the fact that you can't cash out and see most of your money back. Ownership is going to cost you. But it's part of your lifestyle and you use those things to justify all the hard work you put in.
You already have a lovely house, have the weekly shopping bills covered and take care of the raft of bills which make up modern life. This is how you choose to spend the spare money that's left over.
Panameras are made in such small numbers that you only need to find a few customers every year.
Henry
clorenzen said:
Henry-F said:
Let's put the Panamera into perspective chaps. It's for people who aren't short of a few quid. Would you spend £50k plus renting a boat for the weekend, would you spend £500 on a bottle of wine in a restaurant or £20 a drink for a round with some mates, £5,000 on an outfit for the missus, £100k on a kitchen or £6,000 a person to fly to New York.
People do these things every day. When it's on in January take yourself off to Excel for the day and have a wander round the boat show. Every boat there is owned by someone by the end of the show (except for that bloody ugly covered in flybridge thing), and they've taken orders for more besides.
If you have to debate the cost of ownership then you cant afford one. It's not like an old 911 when providing you can afford one then you can afford one. With a Panamera, Bentley, Merc, BMW and so on you have to be able to not only afford to buy one but to live with the fact that you can't cash out and see most of your money back. Ownership is going to cost you. But it's part of your lifestyle and you use those things to justify all the hard work you put in.
You already have a lovely house, have the weekly shopping bills covered and take care of the raft of bills which make up modern life. This is how you choose to spend the spare money that's left over.
Panameras are made in such small numbers that you only need to find a few customers every year.
Henry
I would not call 26.000 a "small" number for starters. This is probably one of Porsche's biggest sales successes ever. The margins must be huge on that car as it has lifted the average sales price per car at Porsche quite significantly. Personally I don't like it but there are plenty of folks that do - apparently. People do these things every day. When it's on in January take yourself off to Excel for the day and have a wander round the boat show. Every boat there is owned by someone by the end of the show (except for that bloody ugly covered in flybridge thing), and they've taken orders for more besides.
If you have to debate the cost of ownership then you cant afford one. It's not like an old 911 when providing you can afford one then you can afford one. With a Panamera, Bentley, Merc, BMW and so on you have to be able to not only afford to buy one but to live with the fact that you can't cash out and see most of your money back. Ownership is going to cost you. But it's part of your lifestyle and you use those things to justify all the hard work you put in.
You already have a lovely house, have the weekly shopping bills covered and take care of the raft of bills which make up modern life. This is how you choose to spend the spare money that's left over.
Panameras are made in such small numbers that you only need to find a few customers every year.
Henry
So it was never designed for the UK market. We're (Porsche's) history. It belongs to te US and China. And maybe to Germany. Where they sell well in those markets, there are (usually) superb and wide roads, or in China's case, they'll be piloted by chauffeurs. So Henry, I've got the perspective, thanks. You might need some, however, as your potential customers are apparently in this thread and not at the boat show!
Panameras retail at about the same as or lower than some of Porsche's better cars. Yet it is no 918 spyder (which I suspect will sell out - I'd love one!).
It is not a GT3RS or 997TT convertible. Most who run those (without being tight-fisted) don't care about depreciation. I wouldn't in their shoes.
But for markets like the UK, there's a paucity of fleet and chauffeur service companies that'll take them on so we won't see as many on the streets as we do the limos with the Panamera competes. Some of these services are dependent on (fast disappearing) public sector contracts and private sector firms currently shedding costs. That's my point. For reasons already stated.
As for those who aspire to own them after they fall further in price, good luck! That's your Panamera customer base, Henry, as they've shown in this thread.
Others might prefer to wait for a GT3RS or TT convertible after the first three years of depreciation and have as a second (barge) car an S class, Range Rover or the new Cayenne. They'll likely cost less to run and are effective for what they are!
Not sure I can say the same about the Panamera, but we'll see in a few years, won't we? Is that clearer now? And is that such a poor or erroneous perspective?
Edited by bcnrml on Wednesday 13th October 19:53
Henry-F said:
Let's put the Panamera into perspective chaps. It's for people who aren't short of a few quid. Would you spend £50k plus renting a boat for the weekend, would you spend £500 on a bottle of wine in a restaurant or £20 a drink for a round with some mates, £5,000 on an outfit for the missus, £100k on a kitchen or £6,000 a person to fly to New York.
People do these things every day. When it's on in January take yourself off to Excel for the day and have a wander round the boat show. Every boat there is owned by someone by the end of the show (except for that bloody ugly covered in flybridge thing), and they've taken orders for more besides.
If you have to debate the cost of ownership then you cant afford one. It's not like an old 911 when providing you can afford one then you can afford one. With a Panamera, Bentley, Merc, BMW and so on you have to be able to not only afford to buy one but to live with the fact that you can't cash out and see most of your money back. Ownership is going to cost you. But it's part of your lifestyle and you use those things to justify all the hard work you put in.
You already have a lovely house, have the weekly shopping bills covered and take care of the raft of bills which make up modern life. This is how you choose to spend the spare money that's left over.
Panameras are made in such small numbers that you only need to find a few customers every year.
Henry
Totally agree. most people on here dont understand how rich, Rich people really are...People do these things every day. When it's on in January take yourself off to Excel for the day and have a wander round the boat show. Every boat there is owned by someone by the end of the show (except for that bloody ugly covered in flybridge thing), and they've taken orders for more besides.
If you have to debate the cost of ownership then you cant afford one. It's not like an old 911 when providing you can afford one then you can afford one. With a Panamera, Bentley, Merc, BMW and so on you have to be able to not only afford to buy one but to live with the fact that you can't cash out and see most of your money back. Ownership is going to cost you. But it's part of your lifestyle and you use those things to justify all the hard work you put in.
You already have a lovely house, have the weekly shopping bills covered and take care of the raft of bills which make up modern life. This is how you choose to spend the spare money that's left over.
Panameras are made in such small numbers that you only need to find a few customers every year.
Henry
yellowgriff said:
Totally agree. most people on here dont understand how rich, Rich people really are...
Ah, I see.Like the people on this thread waiting for the price to drop before they get one, including asking Henry when he'll be selling them?
Or the one, two or three I happen to know (UK and US) who have porkers and the Merc S class but have no plans ever to own a Panamera?
One is a porker nut and has porkers in Spain and the UK, including two Fezzas! Yup, they'll be buying up the Panamera in droves.
It'll sell. I've been mildly surprised, but not so surprised when considering the US and especially the absolutely mind-boggling sales data in the Chinese markets (where all the German marques are doing extremely well!).
Edited by bcnrml on Wednesday 13th October 20:16
A very good friend of mine purchase a supercharged Range Rover & PX it back in after 9 month and lost 45K... He didnt even flinch,
People who buy 50K porsche and loose 8 to 10k in a year, people who drive a Ford focus cant work that out,
People who drink 700 bottles of bubble or put the car down as an experience or tax loss,
People who buy 50K porsche and loose 8 to 10k in a year, people who drive a Ford focus cant work that out,
People who drink 700 bottles of bubble or put the car down as an experience or tax loss,
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