Drop in BHP due to Carbon Build up - Gen 2 997?

[Ian_UK1]

I haven't forgotten! The indie I'm using was simply overloaded with unexpected, extra work last Thursday so wasn't able to do the borescope examination for me on the intended day - it's hardly their top priority, unfortunately. Thankfully, I know the guys there very well and they've said they'll definitely make the time next week.

Once I've promised to do something, I'm not someone who won't follow through on it. Please just bear with me for a short while and I'll get the results posted on here as soon as possible.

Ian

[Martian O]

Thanks Ian.

[Akajak]

bump

[Mouser73]

Cards on the table, I'm the distributor for Wynn's in the South West, so I have a strong interest in DFI related problems.
I agree with previous posters that direct injection will create carbon
build-up in the inlet tract and on inlet valves. You only have to visit the Audi RS4 site to see evidence of this.
http://audisrs.com/archive/carbon-buildup-updateo_tt_11364.html
Additionally, the fact that we sell considerable amounts of EGR/intake cleaner through eBay and field numerous phone calls, reflects a widespread problem.
This isn't meant as a sales pitch, I know that people will make up their own minds up about whether they consider this to a problem. Furthermore, some vehicles are more affected than others.
Anyway, for more information,
Petrol
http://www.wynnoil.co.uk/products-wynns-fuel-syste...
Diesel
http://www.wynnoil.co.uk/products-wynns-featured-e...

[Martian O]

I used a similar product on a Mitsubishi GDI engine about 5 years ago, it made no difference whatsoever, if anything it made it worse!

[Mouser73]

Previous poster. I was just trying to impart some knowledge on the subject. For the record, the product you used had absolutely no similarity to the ones we sell. Wynn's research and design is the most thorough of any petrochemical company. In fact one of our products is a current programme for Porsche.
Anyway, thanks for the crass Generalisation.

[Wills2]

Mouser73 said:

Anyway, thanks for the crass Generalisation.

Welcome to Pistonheads....

[Pesty]

Mouser73 said:

Previous poster. I was just trying to impart some knowledge on the subject. For the record, the product you used had absolutely no similarity to the ones we sell. Wynn's research and design is the most thorough of any petrochemical company. In fact one of our products is a current programme for Porsche.
Anyway, thanks for the crass Generalisation.

Has anyone done an independant test using your products for say 40k miles and looked at the valves?

do you have pics of vales after using your products?

[steve singh]

Mouser73 said:

Previous poster. I was just trying to impart some knowledge on the subject. For the record, the product you used had absolutely no similarity to the ones we sell. Wynn's research and design is the most thorough of any petrochemical company. In fact one of our products is a current programme for Porsche.
Anyway, thanks for the crass Generalisation.

You plugged your products and someone shared their experience of other products - get over it.

Here's another generalisation for you - on the whole these type of products do nothing and I'd urge people to avoid.

At least have the decency to contribute to the forum first before you start pushing products down our throats - lose the intrusive attitude, demonstrate some authenticity and then perhaps I can treat you with less mistrust than a double glazing salesman.

Edited by steve singh on Monday 29th November 10:42

[Ian_UK1]

Just a quick update - my car is finally going for the borescope examination on Wednsday afternoon so we'll hopefully get to see what a 9500-mile, untreated (as in no petrochemical products used to remove the carbon) DFI 997S's inlet valves look like.

For the record, my car has been run on V-Power from new and had a precautionary oil change at 4000 miles (post running-in) so it should be in as good condition, carbon-wise, as any could be expected to be at 9500 miles.

Assuming there is some degree of carbon build-up (as it's likely there will be on a DFI motor) perhaps Wynns would like to use their product to 'treat' my car and we can then assess the results with a second borescope examination? Nothing like 'money where mouth is' to prove product claims. Over to Wynns.......

Ian

Edited by Ian_UK1 on Monday 29th November 10:31

[Martian O]

Mouser73 said:

Previous poster. I was just trying to impart some knowledge on the subject. For the record, the product you used had absolutely no similarity to the ones we sell. Wynn's research and design is the most thorough of any petrochemical company. In fact one of our products is a current programme for Porsche.
Anyway, thanks for the crass Generalisation.

The stuff I used was called 10K Boost. The manufacturers blurb states: "The simple to apply, non-invasive de-coke, creating a cleaner burn and greater engine efficiency".

You apply it through the air intake after the MAF sensor. It didn't do a thing apart from making the car run rough and therefore a visit to the garage for a walnut-shell blast to clear the carbon.

Edited by Martian O on Monday 29th November 11:31

[Mouser73]

steve singh said:

Mouser73 said:

Previous poster. I was just trying to impart some knowledge on the subject. For the record, the product you used had absolutely no similarity to the ones we sell. Wynn's research and design is the most thorough of any petrochemical company. In fact one of our products is a current programme for Porsche.
Anyway, thanks for the crass Generalisation.

You plugged your products and someone shared their experience of other products - get over it.

Here's another generalisation for you - on the whole these type of products do nothing and I'd urge people to avoid.

At least have the decency to contribute to the forum first before you start pushing products down our throats - lose the intrusive attitude and demonstrate some authenticity and then perhaps I can treat you with less mistrust than a double glazing salesman.

Edited by steve singh on Monday 29th November 10:26

I wasn't trying to plug my products, I was simply agreeing with other posters regarding problems with direct injection engines.
Perhaps I should have copied and pasted the information so not to cause any offence. I thought interested parties would simply read the relevant parts.

If I wanted to sell through forums I'd get an advertising banner and become an offical vendor.
If we were having this conversation in person and I showed you some information, would you have got on your high horse? I'm guessing not.
My reply to the other poster was due to his dismissive attitiude to what was supposed to be a contribution. Perhaps I misinterpreted his response, but it came over that way to me.

However, your reaction has been way the wrong side of disproportionate.
How can you accuse me of having an intrusive attitiude? Perhaps you should read back your own posts. "on the whole these type of products do nothing and I'd urge people to avoid." what do you base this on? seventy years of R&D, overwhelming manufacturer approvals?!

"demonstrate some authenticity and then perhaps I can treat you with less mistrust than a double glazing salesman"

If you thought I'd overstepped the mark there were other avenues open to you rather than this.
I think you just fancied having a go and I was an easy target for you. At best you were trolling at worst you're just a bully.

[Mouser73]

Martian O said:

Mouser73 said:

Previous poster. I was just trying to impart some knowledge on the subject. For the record, the product you used had absolutely no similarity to the ones we sell. Wynn's research and design is the most thorough of any petrochemical company. In fact one of our products is a current programme for Porsche.
Anyway, thanks for the crass Generalisation.

The stuff I used was called 10K Boost. The manufacturers blurb states: "The simple to apply, non-invasive de-coke, creating a cleaner burn and greater engine efficiency".

You apply it through the air intake after the MAF sensor. It didn't do a thing apart from making the car run rough and a therefore a visit to the garage for a walnut-shell blast to clear the carbon.

Understood, the coking on the mitsubishi engine was pretty severe and as you rightly say, the walnut shell procedure was the best alternative without getting too invasive.
Most intake cleaning aerosols (carb cleaners) have little or no lubrication, so although they may help to clean the egr/inlet, they can make the EGR valve stick. This might have contributed to the poor running you experienced after the cleaner was used.


Cheers,


James.

[Pesty]

Mouser73 said:

If you thought I'd overstepped the mark there were other avenues open to you rather than this.
I think you just fancied having a go and I was an easy target for you. At best you were trolling at worst you're just a bully.

You have ignored my question about independant testing, before/after pics but never mind.

Edited by Pesty on Monday 29th November 22:45

[Mouser73]

Sorry about that, I was a little preoccupied standing up for myself.
I spoke to Wynn's today and they are sending me all the test data they have. I can post the highlights.
I'm under no illusion about it curing severe coking in higher mileage engines, but long term testing, general feedback from garages and independent customers has been very positive.
We currently have approval from the AA, they carry if in their roadside assistance vehicles.
I have seen a lot of seriously coked up inlet tracts and egr systems over the last few years. Certain engines seem to suffer worse than others.
in the performance sphere the Audi RS4 seems particularly prone to inlet coking, although it would probably be more accurate to describe it as sludge
build-up.
Will post some info when I get it.

Cheers,

James.

[Ian_UK1]

So you don't want to take me up on my offer to independently prove/disprove the effectiveness of your product?

Thought you wouldn't.

Ian

Edited by Ian_UK1 on Tuesday 30th November 08:56

[steve singh]

Ian_UK1 said:

So you don't want to take me up on my offer to independently prove/disprove the effectiveness of your product?

Thought you wouldn't.

Ian

I hope "James" will take you up on your offer given he is so eager to contribue to this particular issue...afer all what better way to demonstrate your product success than a real life 'independent test'?

In doing this perhaps my cynicism of such posters will abate...I won't hold my breath though, particularly given the very weak retort to my original post.

Edited by steve singh on Tuesday 30th November 09:21

[bcnrml]

Looks like he won't take up your offer, Ian.

And there I was living in hope.

[Mermaid]

Another product that allegedly helps is Dipetane. And no, I am not connected wiht the product/company etc.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?source=ig&hl=en...

[Mouser73]

Steve,
As I said in my last post, I'm not here to sell anything. I see you're still having trouble with that one.
I've met people like you on many car forums and a few years ago your petty vindictiveness would have bothered me.
Now I just see it for what it is.
Posting on forums us not a pissing contest for intellectual wannabes. It's an environment where hopefully people can discuss various issues without the inconvenience of being trolled.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that away from your keyboard you're a nice guy who's prone to a bit of post work angst.
However, I don't deserve your crap and appeasing you is pretty low on my list of priorities.
This is where you apologise and we start again.