Porsche 911 handling?
Discussion
MC Bodge said:
The Wookie said:
Once you get used to loading it up in a certain way then the benefits of the layout make themselves obvious.
The benefits being so many that every other manufacturer has copied it....Maybe they are just the luckiest brand in motor racing?
I liked the clip and it was clearly well driven. The slide at 2.49 was probably not something the driver worried too much about though. When you know the car well, as he clearly does, you have the confidence to drive like that and it seems entirely natural to do so - you're unlikely to be wanting it to step out but the knack is not to be afraid of it and if it does to keep on it and work with it to keep making progress. Simples 
Did I mention that last time I raced at Spa in my old 911 I got my first ever outright win in torrential rain?
Did I mention that last time I raced at Spa in my old 911 I got my first ever outright win in torrential rain?
Penguinracer said:
There's some seriously skilled pedalling going on here & that high-speed oversteering moment at 2:49 is indeed chilling. I can see why someone who relishes the sideways action of rallying but doesn't fancy the risk & wear & tear of gravel motorsport would be attracted to the challenge of classic 911 motoring. But am I alone in thinking that this doesn't come across as a surgically sharp precision driving tool but looks more akin to helming a sailing vessel across a narrow channel in a wind over tide situation?
It's a mid-60s car on historic control tyres. What would you expect to see?If you can't see the appeal in that video then you have no heart, no soul and no sense of fun.
MC Bodge said:
RSGulp said:
What? People are commenting on driving rear-engined 911s based on a computer game! 
A PC game isn't a very realistic approximation, but as it is unlikely that I'll drive an old 911 in anger at any point in the future, I thought that my original post was fair enough.Fans of the Spa clip will love this short one of how his driving looks from the outside!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-hXjerSPMw&fea...
And his qualifying lap - 1:30+ he takes a double apex left using barely any left lock, and 2:30+ is interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK3fDkZ1kgg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-hXjerSPMw&fea...
And his qualifying lap - 1:30+ he takes a double apex left using barely any left lock, and 2:30+ is interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK3fDkZ1kgg
Rouleur said:
Fans of the Spa clip will love this short one of how his driving looks from the outside!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-hXjerSPMw&fea...
And his qualifying lap - 1:30+ he takes a double apex left using barely any left lock, and 2:30+ is interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK3fDkZ1kgg
That car is an absolute handful, but he can hustle it along rapidly. No matter what some of you Porsche fans think, the 911 is a bizarre creation!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-hXjerSPMw&fea...
And his qualifying lap - 1:30+ he takes a double apex left using barely any left lock, and 2:30+ is interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK3fDkZ1kgg
I'd love to have a go in one of these though:
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 7th December 21:55
If you can drive a 911 at ten tenths everyting else is a weeze. The 911 requires a unique technique to get the most from it and once mastered it is not only the most satisfying car to drive but also incredibly fast. Balance is the key which comes from feel. A game no matter how good it is gives you none of this. You cannot get hurt or killed and it won't cost you £20K to fix it when you get it all wrong and slamm it into the armco barrier. The 2.0 litre 'S' vid is great entertainment. The 901 gearbox is weak so he is being very careful. It is not his car as he is crunched up against the knee breaker bar which is not the most ideal seating position.
The youths of today seem to be bred on computer imageary and computer interaction. There is no face to face communication. It's easy to have a row on a computer. Less so when you are standing face to face with a guy built like a gorilla. It is all bulls
t and bks IMO.
The youths of today seem to be bred on computer imageary and computer interaction. There is no face to face communication. It's easy to have a row on a computer. Less so when you are standing face to face with a guy built like a gorilla. It is all bulls
t and bks IMO. graemel said:
If you can drive a 911 at ten tenths everyting else is a weeze. The 911 requires a unique technique to get the most from it and once mastered it is not only the most satisfying car to drive but also incredibly fast.
I can appreciate that, especially as someone who enjoys riding motorbikes.graemel said:
Balance is the key which comes from feel. A game no matter how good it is gives you none of this. You cannot get hurt or killed and it won't cost you £20K to fix it when you get it all wrong
I know that. When I first put GTL on last week, the thing that struck me was the lack of 'feel'. As I said, it is only an approximation, in 2D, with no motion, but I'm unlikely to drive a real classic Porsche racing car!graemel said:
The youths of today seem to be bred on computer imageary and computer interaction. There is no face to face communication. It's easy to have a row on a computer
I don't think anybody is having a row here?I remember my Dad warning me that driving wasn't like a computer game. Unsurprisingly, Driving a VW Polo wasn't exactly like Psion Chequered Flag or even Stunt Car Racer
i totally disagree, in GTL and other simulations I have felt the bobbly 911 front end, the understeer you get from turning in when unloaded, the way you can trail brake into corner to bring the back end into play during corner entry and therefore neutralise the understeer, the way you can get on the power earlier in the 911 than in other cars due to the excellent traction,
simulations do give you a feel for the balance and handling characteristics of the car. you are right, you don't have a fear of crashing, but with a good wheel and pedals you get an excellent idea of what a car is like at the limit.
i want to stress again I am talking about a sim and not a game like forza 3 or Gran Turismo.
simulations do give you a feel for the balance and handling characteristics of the car. you are right, you don't have a fear of crashing, but with a good wheel and pedals you get an excellent idea of what a car is like at the limit.
i want to stress again I am talking about a sim and not a game like forza 3 or Gran Turismo.
Al W said:
MC Bodge said:
No matter what some of you Porsche fans think, the 911 is a bizarre creation!
These fans you refer to are folk who actually drive and race 911s, yet even after reading their posts you seem to know better, based on a computer game... Isn't the Internet great
now, saying the 911 is a bizarre creation does not preclude the 911 from being an excellent sports car.
MrCooke said:
DangerousMike said:
No other sports car features the layout the 911 has,
Are you sure? Don't want to run that by google before typing it? DangerousMike said:
Al W said:
MC Bodge said:
No matter what some of you Porsche fans think, the 911 is a bizarre creation!
These fans you refer to are folk who actually drive and race 911s, yet even after reading their posts you seem to know better, based on a computer game... Isn't the Internet great
You are also incorrect in your second assertion regarding other rear-engined sportscars, and I think most people would consider that Ferry Porsche had a fair grasp of basic engineering too.
james_gt3rs said:
DangerousMike said:
there is a brilliant video of someone driving this kind of 911 around spa here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ84Fa-AqXY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ84Fa-AqXY
That is just immense car control.
MC Bodge said:
The Wookie said:
Once you get used to loading it up in a certain way then the benefits of the layout make themselves obvious.
The benefits being so many that every other manufacturer has copied it....Al W said:
These fans you refer to are folk who actually drive and race 911s, yet even after reading their posts you seem to know better, based on a computer game...
Isn't the Internet great
I think that some people are missing the point.Isn't the Internet great
I was intrigued enough by my enjoyable, but tricky, experience of 'simulated' 911 handling to ask if this was in any way in-line with reality.
The fact is that the 911 is extremely unusual, even if you don't like my use of the word 'bizarre'. The peculiar handling characteristics (whether they could be considered good, bad or indifferent) are very apparent in those videos of Spa.
Al W said:
The 911 may be bizarre in your opinion, but it isn't to me as i grew up around them
-Why does this remind me of the way that followers of supposedly omnipotent deities are often surprisingly easily offended?Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 8th December 12:41
Rouleur said:
Fans of the Spa clip will love this short one of how his driving looks from the outside!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-hXjerSPMw&fea...
And his qualifying lap - 1:30+ he takes a double apex left using barely any left lock, and 2:30+ is interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK3fDkZ1kgg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-hXjerSPMw&fea...
And his qualifying lap - 1:30+ he takes a double apex left using barely any left lock, and 2:30+ is interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK3fDkZ1kgg
As has already been noted:
Isimmo said:
It's like the steering wheel is on the wrong way, steer left to go right etc...
MC Bodge said:
I think that some people are missing the point.
I was intrigued enough by my enjoyable, but tricky, experience of 'simulated' 911 handling to ask if this was in any way in-line with reality.
The fact is that the 911 is extremely unusual, even if you don't like my use of the word 'bizarre'. The peculiar handling characteristics (whether they could be considered good, bad or indifferent) are very apparent in those videos of Spa.
I'm quite possibly missing your point, but if so that's because internet forums are about as close to a conversation as a computer game is to driving. Some of your earlier posts appear pretty sarcastic and Clarkson style references to 'over-powered Beetles' hardly sound like a serious (or informed) interest.I was intrigued enough by my enjoyable, but tricky, experience of 'simulated' 911 handling to ask if this was in any way in-line with reality.
The fact is that the 911 is extremely unusual, even if you don't like my use of the word 'bizarre'. The peculiar handling characteristics (whether they could be considered good, bad or indifferent) are very apparent in those videos of Spa.
Al W said:
The 911 may be bizarre in your opinion, but it isn't to me as i grew up around them
-Why does this remind me of the way that followers of supposedly omnipotent deities are often surprisingly easily offended?As for being offended by internet comments about a car...
Just like every other car built, a 911 is a compromise but one which happens to suit me. Can you not see that something very familiar is unlikely to feel unusual or bizarre?
As others have tried to explain, that Spa video is not typical of 911 driving experiences - that is an early, short-wheelbase car on skinny historic tyres setup to suit that driver and therefore at one extreme end of the 911 handling spectrum. You don't need to own a 911 to experience one on track for yourself. Something like this would give you an insight for modest outlay: http://www.mithril.co.uk/giftvouchers/gtclassics.a... and I hope you get the opportunity
Al W said:
As for being offended by internet comments about a car...
Just like every other car built, a 911 is a compromise but one which happens to suit me. Can you not see that something very familiar is unlikely to feel unusual or bizarre?
It has nothing to do with whether or not you personally were conceived, born and live in a Porsche 911. Just like every other car built, a 911 is a compromise but one which happens to suit me. Can you not see that something very familiar is unlikely to feel unusual or bizarre?
The 911 is an unusual car.
You may love it with a passion, but it is still an unusual car. If it wasn't unusual, you may not love it quite so much.
-I'm still not sure why you took offence though.
Al W said:
You don't need to own a 911 to experience one on track for yourself. Something like this would give you an insight for modest outlay: http://www.mithril.co.uk/giftvouchers/gtclassics.a... and I hope you get the opportunity
I'm sure that would be superb, but £269 (and a 500 mile round trip) for an hour session??I'd rather do a track session in something a bit less flash.
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 8th December 19:05
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