911 track cars......

911 track cars......

Author
Discussion

cragswinter

Original Poster:

21,429 posts

195 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
well, after a lovely look around the cars at the oulton rs day last week i thought now's the time to spend a bit of wonga on mine & maybe get myself back into the trackday scene.

however, my car is a carrera4 & a bloody nice one at that! i keep thinking that although its not concourse condition having viewed a lot of other cars it has the potential to be, & turning this into a track hack would be something of a waste of a fantastic road car. i bought the car as something me & the gf could spend a few nice days at a time going down into europe & it's perfect for that, though i feel now after getting the car completely sorted (just a few minor jobs left to sort out) that a project would be a nice way to spend the summer months.

so looking through the forums & the ads as usual for this time of year a few cars are turning up.

they've all been discussed previously but for your entertainment what do you think of these:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/2188102.htm
plus points-loads of money spent in the right areas
bad points-crap colour, very high mileage, sunroof & aircon, snide wheels (hehe) lucky to ever make your money back come the enevitable resale.

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/2523511.htm


plus points-thegoose's racecar!
bad points-it's a race car!

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2590749.htm
plus points-i've never got over the fact that i didn't buy the 165k miler clubsport when i had the chance & they are lovely cars.
bad points-getting a bit long in the tooth for a track car?

i was also going to link the ad for the guards red 964 c4 that was still up yesterday but it seems to have disapeared, it had suspension mods, recaro interior & a few other choice goodies & was up for 19,995.

anyone have any views?
obviously i want an air cooled car, i'm not overly convinced that any of the 993/964/3.2 cars have anything over each other in terms of which would be better as a track car but everyone seems to be going for a 964 at the moment.

other thing is that i'd ideally like to sell my car & spend less than i got for it. i know the green celebration car looks fantastic but i'm not paying anything like that kind of money for a track car-i'd just buy a genuine rs & be done with it.


ps,
many thanks to gt-two for making me want a track car again-nice one lee!

Al W

591 posts

226 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
How about this one?
"305 bhp and c.1000kg" sounds like fun


I guess your choice depends on how extreme a car you want? Weekend toy with occasional trackdays or track-optimised and suffer on the road...

Edited by Al W on Thursday 10th March 17:16

David Hype

2,296 posts

251 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
If you ask me, it all depends on your own standards. If I were to go the build your own project car route, I bet that it would cost me twice what I set out to spend!

I would never be able to put up with anything less that perfect... So, just buy a real GT3 driving

MrCooke

796 posts

194 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
That little 305 brake SC, if the figures are right, would monster a GT3 round any UK circuit...

Fulla

450 posts

214 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
The black car look's interesting for a track car, and seems a good price.

Is it me or does the CS seem a bit cheap at 25k? I have one which is for track use this year so naturaly would suggest you go for the CS!

I keep looking at the blue 964 and wondering what it feels like with all of the mods, could be interesting.

Surely The Gooses car would be in fine fettle and has a fresh engine rebuild....911 decisions, decisions.

Had you had thoughts on first, second, third choice?


keep it lit

3,388 posts

166 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
MrCooke said:
That little 305 brake SC, if the figures are right, would monster a GT3 round any UK circuit...
Norfolk and chance!!

keep it lit

3,388 posts

166 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
+1

David Hype said:
If you ask me, it all depends on your own standards. If I were to go the build your own project car route, I bet that it would cost me twice what I set out to spend!

I would never be able to put up with anything less that perfect... So, just buy a real GT3 driving

Al W

591 posts

226 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
keep it lit said:
Norfolk and chance!!
Could you elaborate? do you know it?

Sorry, re-read your post and I guess you don't think it'd beat a GT3. I read it as doubting the figures 1st time

keep it lit

3,388 posts

166 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
An air-cooled n/a 911 with a slight weight advantage would need to be very close to any GT3's power figures to match it on track as the air-cooled gives so much away in the other very important fields.. handling, stopping & aero!.. I love & race air-cooled GT 911's btw.

Ade

GT Two

3,070 posts

191 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
cragswinter said:
ps,
many thanks to gt-two for making me want a track car again-nice one lee!
Haha no worries Crags,

That CS looks very nice! but for a completely sorted package Gooses car would be hard to beat, although if you want road legal....


cragswinter

Original Poster:

21,429 posts

195 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
Do I have any favourites?

The 3.2 cs has the history behind it-the owner has mailed me some details & yes it was a full on race car once upon a tine. The other thing is regardless that some people will be opposite to me & find that a turn off at the end of the day it's still a cs & will always be worth something-say £20+

the 964 3.8 sounds very interesting, though I'm sure the reason it's been up for sale for a while is because like me people find that mileage a big turn off, + the fact it still has a sunroof. I also think you need to budget for a respray-if not just for the front end ten for a complete change if colour. Of course, this us a little unfair on the vendor as colour is totally subjective & there's nothing to say that if I sprayed it pepermint that it wouldn't put more people off than if it was left blue (though maritime would be a nice compramise wink)

the gooses car would more likely be the best track option but would the missus want to travel all the way down to the alps in it? In fact would I?! Making it not just road legal but road habitable may take too much away from the car?

As for building my own car, I'd love to but I know what the basic costs are going to be, I'm sure we all do, & it can't change the fact that if you spend 20k on a car you've got to have a bloody cheap one to start with!

My idea us buy something someones already spent their hard earned on & then spend a little more making it onto the car I really want.

The 4wd c4 964 in guards red was the car that tempted me into this line of thought in the first place but it disapeared off the classifieds between yesterday & today? Anyone know anything about it?

Of course I could just keep the 993 & have a happy missus hehe

GT Two

3,070 posts

191 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
cragswinter said:
Do I have any favourites?

The 3.2 cs has the history behind it-the owner has mailed me some details & yes it was a full on race car once upon a tine. The other thing is regardless that some people will be opposite to me & find that a turn off at the end of the day it's still a cs & will always be worth something-say £20+

the 964 3.8 sounds very interesting, though I'm sure the reason it's been up for sale for a while is because like me people find that mileage a big turn off, + the fact it still has a sunroof. I also think you need to budget for a respray-if not just for the front end ten for a complete change if colour. Of course, this us a little unfair on the vendor as colour is totally subjective & there's nothing to say that if I sprayed it pepermint that it wouldn't put more people off than if it was left blue (though maritime would be a nice compramise wink)

the gooses car would more likely be the best track option but would the missus want to travel all the way down to the alps in it? In fact would I?! Making it not just road legal but road habitable may take too much away from the car?

As for building my own car, I'd love to but I know what the basic costs are going to be, I'm sure we all do, & it can't change the fact that if you spend 20k on a car you've got to have a bloody cheap one to start with!

My idea us buy something someones already spent their hard earned on & then spend a little more making it onto the car I really want.

The 4wd c4 964 in guards red was the car that tempted me into this line of thought in the first place but it disapeared off the classifieds between yesterday & today? Anyone know anything about it?

Of course I could just keep the 993 & have a happy missus hehe
If you want the details of the red C4, message me.

You could always buy mine in the summer, although I have to give first refusal to mr Doom smile

OlberFKWJ

14,101 posts

232 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
If it's the car i'm thinking of, there's a big build on Rennlist 964 forum. Nice car.

Track car, i'd start with the lightest car possible. 911SC with a later engine installed and a bit spent on suspension, brakes etc.

thegoose

8,075 posts

209 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
cragswinter said:
the gooses car would more likely be the best track option but would the missus want to travel all the way down to the alps in it? In fact would I?! Making it not just road legal but road habitable may take too much away from the car?
It's not as bad as you might think on the road - it's still rubber-bushed (has to be), has a standard clutch and on its 17's is nothing like as bad as, for example, a Z4 with 18" runflats & Sports suspension (factory Sport model - bloody harsh tide) which lots of people do many miles in. I drove mine on the road extensively to run the engine in (on trade plates so all legal) and it wan't bad at all (although bloody freezing doing it in January with no heater!).

Making it road legal is just electrics (horn, foglights etc) and making sure the headlamps point correctly (they may do already, but it'd be by pure luck!) for the MOT, it already has a logbook (HPi clear too!). Habitable depends on what you're after (to a Lotus owner it could be seen as luxurious), however, even with a set of carpets and a radio (which could be desirable for road use) driving it to the alps for a romantic holiday has no appeal at all for me (think of James May in the Aston Martin race car....).

cragswinter

Original Poster:

21,429 posts

195 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
Which one has a thread on rennlist? The 3.8 conversion? It's a fantastic site is rennlist but I find it hard tracking stuff down & keeping up with threads!

As for your car lee, tbh I don't think I could afford it-seeing what some of the other cars are being punted for I don't think you'd be doing yourself a service by asking peanuts!

The thing with most of these cars is they are just carrera's & when you start modifying them they still remain a carrera IMO.

A car that has had the engine rebuilt, has some choice modifications to me is kind of worth around the same as a top end standard car.

I don't blame anyone for asking a lot for these project cars but as nice as the 3.8 looks, if it hadn't had the ninemiester engine & a gearbox rebuild what would it actually be worth? with that mileage & a knackered engine & gearbox? 10 grand? That makes it overpriced IMO, & by quite a big chunk!

I called in at specialist cars the other week & I've got to say I was quite taken by the gulf car but apart from the fact that the missus hated it I can't help thinking the same thing applied to that, regardless of the wide body, fancy paint job, nice wheels & roll cage it's still just a 35k 165k mile 3.2!

It's the same thing with my 993, regardless of all the history, rs body styling, suspension refurb, new clutch, transmission rebuild etc etc how much can you ever really ask for a 78k mile carrera4?


OlberFKWJ

14,101 posts

232 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
Ah no, it was the £19995 red RS rep that was up for sale :

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/964-forum/58...

cragswinter

Original Poster:

21,429 posts

195 months

Thursday 10th March 2011
quotequote all
OlberFKWJ said:
Ah no, it was the £19995 red RS rep that was up for sale :

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/964-forum/58...
looked nice didn't it?

strip the 4wd hardware out, fir some cup tyres & it'd be a good un!

SignalGruen

630 posts

199 months

Friday 11th March 2011
quotequote all
cragswinter said:
looked nice didn't it?

strip the 4wd hardware out, fir some cup tyres & it'd be a good un!
Converting to RWD on a 964 is not trivial - would involve fitting a new gearbox. Much easier to do (and I believe easily reversible) in a 993 though.

cragswinter

Original Poster:

21,429 posts

195 months

Friday 11th March 2011
quotequote all
Thanks for posting talat, how's your project coming along?

Wasn't sure about the 64 2wd conversion, like you say it's pretty simple in a 93. However, bite the bullet & buy a second hand gearbox & esp with the red cars low mileage I think you'd always be able to find a buyer for the 4wd box-in fact I'm sure someone like Porsche-apart would do an exchange.


thegoose

8,075 posts

209 months

Friday 11th March 2011
quotequote all
Besides the transmission the braking systems are different between a C2 and a C4, so this would need to be converted as well. The C4 has some kind of pump system - you may have noticed that there's a dash light that sometimes takes a few seconds to go out once the car's started - this indicates low pressure, hence it goes out once it's built up. The C2 doesn't have this but I don't know how the systems differ (I would imagine the ABS ECU/programme is different though).