Transmission not engaging Gear?
Discussion
Hi fellas,
Well after many weeks of waiting for parts and mechanic/workshop availability, I finally got round to replacing this Clutch with a recommended Helix Uprated Clutch and Lightened Flywheel full assembly kit supplied from TVR Parts Ltd.
Job was a bit of a nightmare if im honest as it was my first Clutch replacement ever and only my mechanics 3rd on a Speed 6… Why you ask? Well I actually live in Perth, Australia and own one of only 3 ‘Wheeler era’ TVRs in Western Australia (mine being a 2004 3.6 Tuscan Speed 6) and there only being one independent mechanic in Perth with history working on these.
As suspected, following strip-down, at least 3 Clutch fingers were snapped… everything else looked to be in good condition. So we went to work on stripping it all apart and cleaning thoroughly, replacing the oil in the gearbox before re-assembling with the new Flywheel/Clutch kit.
Upon Clutch assembly, my mechanic felt that with the two Clutch plates fitted up to the flywheel, they protruded further (approx 14mm) than the originals on the original flywheel (approx 10mm)?
Anyway we proceeded to fit everything and re-assemble everything.
After photographing the back of the Clutch pedal, we opted against replacing the Clutch Master Cylinder for these reasons:
1. There was absolutely no sign of any leakage whatsoever,
2. Following filling the reservoir and bleeding the system a few times there was no way I was spending more time crouched inside that foot well!
3. The Clutch pedal felt perfect post-bleeding,
4. I now have an un-used spare Clutch Master Cylinder if I need it.
Photos below of various stages of the job before I go on to detail the ‘resultant diagnosis’ post-operation… (shakes head)..
Well after many weeks of waiting for parts and mechanic/workshop availability, I finally got round to replacing this Clutch with a recommended Helix Uprated Clutch and Lightened Flywheel full assembly kit supplied from TVR Parts Ltd.
Job was a bit of a nightmare if im honest as it was my first Clutch replacement ever and only my mechanics 3rd on a Speed 6… Why you ask? Well I actually live in Perth, Australia and own one of only 3 ‘Wheeler era’ TVRs in Western Australia (mine being a 2004 3.6 Tuscan Speed 6) and there only being one independent mechanic in Perth with history working on these.
As suspected, following strip-down, at least 3 Clutch fingers were snapped… everything else looked to be in good condition. So we went to work on stripping it all apart and cleaning thoroughly, replacing the oil in the gearbox before re-assembling with the new Flywheel/Clutch kit.
Upon Clutch assembly, my mechanic felt that with the two Clutch plates fitted up to the flywheel, they protruded further (approx 14mm) than the originals on the original flywheel (approx 10mm)?
Anyway we proceeded to fit everything and re-assemble everything.
After photographing the back of the Clutch pedal, we opted against replacing the Clutch Master Cylinder for these reasons:
1. There was absolutely no sign of any leakage whatsoever,
2. Following filling the reservoir and bleeding the system a few times there was no way I was spending more time crouched inside that foot well!
3. The Clutch pedal felt perfect post-bleeding,
4. I now have an un-used spare Clutch Master Cylinder if I need it.
Photos below of various stages of the job before I go on to detail the ‘resultant diagnosis’ post-operation… (shakes head)..
Long story short – It’s still not right….
Before Engine Start-Up:
With everything re-assembled and in position, the gearbox/gearstick engages with and without the Clutch pressed with everything feeling good – Not the same as before, but ‘good’.
After Engine Start-Up:
Depressed Clutch, gearbox will not engage any gear whatsoever.
After Engine Start-Up (with Car up on hoist and 1st gear pre-selected):
Starter-Motor forces the engine/drivetrain to kick in and I can drive up through gears while up on the hoist (wheels being driven).
Apply brakes, Clutch into neutral, cannot select Reverse from neutral and will not engage any forward gear whatsoever.
After Engine Start-Up (with Car on up hoist and Reverse gear pre-selected):
Starter-Motor forces the engine/drivetrain to kick-in in reverse gears while up on the hoist (wheels being driven).
Apply brakes, Clutch into neutral, cannot select any forward gears or reverse again from neutral.
After Engine Start-Up (Car on ground):
With engine running, depressed Clutch, gearbox will not engage any gear whatsoever.
THE ONLY WAY TO GET THE CAR MOVING ON THE GROUND:
Pre-select 1st and use starter-motor until she jerks forward enough and kicks in – This is not comfortable and I hate the idea of doing this!
Once running and driving, when Accelerating:
Gear-changes upwards are tough to engage, but physically possible.
When Decelerating:
Gear-changes downwards are impossible through engaging the Clutch alone – The lever comes out of the high gear (5th or 4th) and will not engage 4th, 3rd, 2nd or 1st from neutral while decelerating. Got by this by using a combination of both Clutch and Revs to ‘carefully’ engage lower gears and eventually get the car to a rolling state in 1st at which point when I want to come to a complete stand still (at traffic lights for example), she’s in 1st, with the Clutch engaged and I am able to pull away successfully and accelerate up through the gears again.
Note: When sat idling at a stand-still in that situation, I have to have the brakes applied along with the Clutch as she wants to continue rolling forward and won’t sit still on even ground.
Apologies for the long diagnosis fellas, I hope it makes sense.
24hrs later, I started her up hoping that after cooling down things may have settled into place – Wrong! Engine starts, depress Clutch, gearbox will not engage any gear whatsoever.
Now, who has any ideas as to what is not quite right yet?
Could it be:
1. An unidentified Air-bubble in the system taking its time to surface to the top of the system? (requiring re-bleeding)
2. Is this typical and to be considered ‘running-in’ of the new Helix Uprated Clutch?
3. Clutch plates assembled wrong way round? Please don’t let it be that!
4. Must I replace the Clutch Master Cylinder as it is perhaps uprated to suit the Helix Uprated Clutch and it is not like-for-like with the original?
Before Engine Start-Up:
With everything re-assembled and in position, the gearbox/gearstick engages with and without the Clutch pressed with everything feeling good – Not the same as before, but ‘good’.
After Engine Start-Up:
Depressed Clutch, gearbox will not engage any gear whatsoever.
After Engine Start-Up (with Car up on hoist and 1st gear pre-selected):
Starter-Motor forces the engine/drivetrain to kick in and I can drive up through gears while up on the hoist (wheels being driven).
Apply brakes, Clutch into neutral, cannot select Reverse from neutral and will not engage any forward gear whatsoever.
After Engine Start-Up (with Car on up hoist and Reverse gear pre-selected):
Starter-Motor forces the engine/drivetrain to kick-in in reverse gears while up on the hoist (wheels being driven).
Apply brakes, Clutch into neutral, cannot select any forward gears or reverse again from neutral.
After Engine Start-Up (Car on ground):
With engine running, depressed Clutch, gearbox will not engage any gear whatsoever.
THE ONLY WAY TO GET THE CAR MOVING ON THE GROUND:
Pre-select 1st and use starter-motor until she jerks forward enough and kicks in – This is not comfortable and I hate the idea of doing this!
Once running and driving, when Accelerating:
Gear-changes upwards are tough to engage, but physically possible.
When Decelerating:
Gear-changes downwards are impossible through engaging the Clutch alone – The lever comes out of the high gear (5th or 4th) and will not engage 4th, 3rd, 2nd or 1st from neutral while decelerating. Got by this by using a combination of both Clutch and Revs to ‘carefully’ engage lower gears and eventually get the car to a rolling state in 1st at which point when I want to come to a complete stand still (at traffic lights for example), she’s in 1st, with the Clutch engaged and I am able to pull away successfully and accelerate up through the gears again.
Note: When sat idling at a stand-still in that situation, I have to have the brakes applied along with the Clutch as she wants to continue rolling forward and won’t sit still on even ground.
Apologies for the long diagnosis fellas, I hope it makes sense.
24hrs later, I started her up hoping that after cooling down things may have settled into place – Wrong! Engine starts, depress Clutch, gearbox will not engage any gear whatsoever.
Now, who has any ideas as to what is not quite right yet?
Could it be:
1. An unidentified Air-bubble in the system taking its time to surface to the top of the system? (requiring re-bleeding)
2. Is this typical and to be considered ‘running-in’ of the new Helix Uprated Clutch?
3. Clutch plates assembled wrong way round? Please don’t let it be that!
4. Must I replace the Clutch Master Cylinder as it is perhaps uprated to suit the Helix Uprated Clutch and it is not like-for-like with the original?
Others are having the same problem with these clutches http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
OK,
Done a few of these now. In no particular order;
1. Check you have enough travel. Could be linkage although don't see it in photos (the pivot pit is scary small and the clevis's are plastic... so look carefully), could be master cylinder not taking enough fluid although if she bled up I guess unlikely or could be seal letting by but not leaking... yep possible. Could be that the stop needs adjusting behind the pedal.
2. The masters are .7 bore so no spec change.
3. The spigot bearing would have fallen out if it was seized and dragging, it wouldn't last long and the input shaft would look nasty so doubt this.
4. Plates round wrong way, possible but think the clash on bolt up would have alerted you I think.
5. Damaged hose with balloon, ummhh usually they blow out and these are braided so you would see it of feel it.
All I can think is travel, adjust the stop and see what you get. when I bought my Sag it was "in need of clutch", I gave the stop three turns and drove it for two years, took it apart and the fingers were fine and the plates still had life. Anyway I changed it and don't use the standard items at all now.
Worse way out it comes but I reckon you'll be OK. See my replies as I have commented before re clutches
j
Done a few of these now. In no particular order;
1. Check you have enough travel. Could be linkage although don't see it in photos (the pivot pit is scary small and the clevis's are plastic... so look carefully), could be master cylinder not taking enough fluid although if she bled up I guess unlikely or could be seal letting by but not leaking... yep possible. Could be that the stop needs adjusting behind the pedal.
2. The masters are .7 bore so no spec change.
3. The spigot bearing would have fallen out if it was seized and dragging, it wouldn't last long and the input shaft would look nasty so doubt this.
4. Plates round wrong way, possible but think the clash on bolt up would have alerted you I think.
5. Damaged hose with balloon, ummhh usually they blow out and these are braided so you would see it of feel it.
All I can think is travel, adjust the stop and see what you get. when I bought my Sag it was "in need of clutch", I gave the stop three turns and drove it for two years, took it apart and the fingers were fine and the plates still had life. Anyway I changed it and don't use the standard items at all now.
Worse way out it comes but I reckon you'll be OK. See my replies as I have commented before re clutches
j
The latest batch of helix clutches won't work as they are not the correct spec, they simply won't work. Best call tvr parts as they are aware of the issue but don't seem to have told anyone else they have supplied them to although they have known something was wrong since last Tuesday. Latest I've been told today by my mechanic is it will be at least two weeks until it is rectified. Another owner has been told it is the plate thickness.
Hi jorel,
Sorry to hear about your issues, sounds like you have done the right things but the hardware is faulty!
Jalso just wanted to say hi to a fellow tvr Australia owner! I am currently rebuilding my cerbera, a few kms away in Melbourne but hey it's a small place really! I wanted to personal message you but it says your account doesn't accept them?
Cheers
Ryan
Sorry to hear about your issues, sounds like you have done the right things but the hardware is faulty!
Jalso just wanted to say hi to a fellow tvr Australia owner! I am currently rebuilding my cerbera, a few kms away in Melbourne but hey it's a small place really! I wanted to personal message you but it says your account doesn't accept them?
Cheers
Ryan
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