Some advice required on a potential purchase...

[Imran_M]

I'm hoping for some PH'er advice on a car that I viewed at the weekend.

Very nice Mk1 Tuscan that has good history and drives well. It had an engine rebuild by TVR Power 13,000 miles ago (almost 5 years ago) but spoke to Dom and have since discovered it is actually a Top-End rebuild only (one of their last top-end only rebuilds before they decided to do only Full Rebuilds).

The car has driven 13K miles since then without issue. Throughout my search for a car I've focussed on Full Rebuilds but wondered if I'm maybe making too big a deal about it? Kind of feel a bit put off as if it comes round to resale time, would it be harder to sell if its had a Top End only rebuild? Or would the fact that it was a TVR Power job fairly recently mean that potentials buyers wouldnt really care as their reputation is stellar?

Any help would be advisable! Thanks

[BobE]

My opinion is that of basing your search entirely on a rebuilt engine is not necessarily the point. A lot of cars had rebuilds early in their lives and could have used the same suspect components as the original build. I think their are two issues. Firstly if the engine was rebuilt and the owner(s) still didn't warm the engine through properly and conscientiously then there is a risk of the same problems emerging. Secondly only a full engine rebuild by the likes of Powers is going to make the situation less risky. There are still bottom ends that might contain iffy conrods etc if only a top end was done. I would always buy a car based on condition and specification - exterior, interior, chassis and mechanical condition. Plus you need a contingency fund if things go wrong but hopefully if you do have a full rebuild by one of the recognised experts - so they address some of the oil way issues and/ or valve train geometry- then you will get a higher price when you come to sell. To some extent the same goes for detailed service histories - they add to the value because they show the care that has been taken to maintain the car. My car is still on the original engine but the first owner and myself both have taken great care not to use the revs until the oil is properly warm. It can be frustrating but it's the best way to protect things.

[Imran_M]

BobE said:

My opinion is that of basing your search entirely on a rebuilt engine is not necessarily the point. A lot of cars had rebuilds early in their lives and could have used the same suspect components as the original build. I think their are two issues. Firstly if the engine was rebuilt and the owner(s) still didn't warm the engine through properly and conscientiously then there is a risk of the same problems emerging. Secondly only a full engine rebuild by the likes of Powers is going to make the situation less risky. There are still bottom ends that might contain iffy conrods etc if only a top end was done. I would always buy a car based on condition and specification - exterior, interior, chassis and mechanical condition. Plus you need a contingency fund if things go wrong but hopefully if you do have a full rebuild by one of the recognised experts - so they address some of the oil way issues and/ or valve train geometry- then you will get a higher price when you come to sell. To some extent the same goes for detailed service histories - they add to the value because they show the care that has been taken to maintain the car. My car is still on the original engine but the first owner and myself both have taken great care not to use the revs until the oil is properly warm. It can be frustrating but it's the best way to protect things.

My apologies, my search has indeed looked at all the main areas that you detailed (ie mechanical interior exterior etc) and the other parameters are ok, it was just the engine which I think could be a sticking point. What I'm trying to deduce is whether the fact the engine was done by TVR Power would help give the engine a tick of approval for buyers at resale time despite its not a full rebuild?

[m4tti]

BobE said:

My opinion is that of basing your search entirely on a rebuilt engine is not necessarily the point. A lot of cars had rebuilds early in their lives and could have used the same suspect components as the original build. I think their are two issues. Firstly if the engine was rebuilt and the owner(s) still didn't warm the engine through properly and conscientiously then there is a risk of the same problems emerging. Secondly only a full engine rebuild by the likes of Powers is going to make the situation less risky. There are still bottom ends that might contain iffy conrods etc if only a top end was done. I would always buy a car based on condition and specification - exterior, interior, chassis and mechanical condition. Plus you need a contingency fund if things go wrong but hopefully if you do have a full rebuild by one of the recognised experts - so they address some of the oil way issues and/ or valve train geometry- then you will get a higher price when you come to sell. To some extent the same goes for detailed service histories - they add to the value because they show the care that has been taken to maintain the car. My car is still on the original engine but the first owner and myself both have taken great care not to use the revs until the oil is properly warm. It can be frustrating but it's the best way to protect things.

None of the solutions apart from the fff can revise the valve train geometry, like wise with the oil ways in the head.

Do you know why it had a top end rebuild, was it related to oil usage and the valve train, or wear on cams and followers.

If you click the link in my profile, my engine previously only had a top end rebuild... I ended up redoing.

[mab1]

Personally speaking I think it will put people off - it would have put me off. It always strikes me that the owner skimped on not going for a full rebuild, which leads to thinking what else might have been skipped.

Halftime bearings are a known weak point also, if it's not had that replaced I would be worried.

Having said all of the above its a pricing conversation really, if your buying below the market rate for a fully rebuilt car and have funds to fork out in the worst car then potentially happy days .

Edited by mab1 on Tuesday 17th November 20:18

[Imran_M]

m4tti said:

None of the solutions apart from the fff can revise the valve train geometry, like wise with the oil ways in the head.

Do you know why it had a top end rebuild, was it related to oil usage and the valve train, or wear on cams and followers.

If you click the link in my profile, my engine previously only had a top end rebuild... I ended up redoing.

It went in for a service and Dom found wear on the followers hence the top end was all that was needed at the time. Had additional work on it at the 1K service afterwards (not a full rebuild by definition) and has been fine ever since. The owner is very conscientious when it comes to warming and oil level etc.

[m4tti]

Imran_M said:

It went in for a service and Dom found wear on the followers hence the top end was all that was needed at the time. Had additional work on it at the 1K service afterwards (not a full rebuild by definition) and has been fine ever since. The owner is very conscientious when it comes to warming and oil level etc.

Did Dom strip it and flush the bottom end of any of the material in the oil system as a result of the cam and follower wear.

Will Dom warrant it?

To be honest it's a buyers market there must be over 20 for sale.

Edited by m4tti on Tuesday 17th November 20:21

[mab1]

Also one other point, people rightly focus on engine rebuilds but other costs can add up - this year I've had a 12k service, various bushes and bits replaced and a new clutch, that bill wasn't miles away from a rebuild!

[Speed 3]

As with all things Tuscan, it comes down to statistical risk and none of the stats are utterly reliable. At one end of the scale you buy a cheap car and rebaseline everything at your own cost or you buy with a reputation and a not wholly bankable warranty. Either of those are going to cost you between £25k &£30k for a Mk1. Alternative is somewhere between where you always need a slush fund just in case. Buying a car in that range is always more subtly debatable and for all the ace opinions and experience on here, no-one can give you bulletproof advice. If you are buying a car in fear of having to get rid of it quickly you're probably best off with the first category, if not, take a long term view and depending on whether you prefer to tinker/spend/fettle as part of your enjoyment or simply drive it with insurance cash in the bank, that will drive your selection of option 2 or 3.

Edited by Speed 3 on Tuesday 17th November 20:41

[Imran_M]

m4tti said:

Did Dom strip it and flush the bottom end of any of the material in the oil system as a result of the cam and follower wear.

Will Dom warrant it?

To be honest it's a buyers market there must be over 20 for sale.

Edited by m4tti on Tuesday 17th November 20:21

As far as I'm aware the bottom was tended to in that respect. Not asked Dom about warranty, to be honest that's at least a further 1K which would add to a couple of other immediate jobs the car needs as part of the deal.

[Imran_M]

mab1 said:

Personally speaking I think it will put people off - it would have put me off. It always strikes me that the owner skimped on not going for a full rebuild, which leads to thinking what else might have been skipped.

Halftime bearings are a known weak point also, if it's not had that replaced I would be worried.

Having said all of the above its a pricing conversation really, if your buying below the market rate for a fully rebuilt car and have funds to fork out in the worst car then potentially happy days .

Edited by mab1 on Tuesday 17th November 20:18

The owner was advised that all that was needed at the time was a top end rebuild. The half time bearings were indeed replaced. The owner is very honest in my opinion and has always done work that has been recommended to carry out.

[J J]

Sorry but it's a bit of a no brainer.

Just ask Dom his opinion.

Any performance car you buy is likely to have faults, Porsche have issues, yet would you ask the same questions. Top end failure was more likely than any other, at the time top end rebuild was considered a good option repair for a speed 6, but 5 years later your questioning the owners decision.

As mentioned other cars out there !

[matt-man]

I'm going to try and give you the advice I think you posted for...go for it!

Ok so a full rebuild would be preferred but if it needed doing then it would have been done. It's also done quite a few miles since.

Ok so these engines aren't exactly bullet proof but IMHO the hype is the worst part. I saw plenty of cars that had been rebuilt but the rest was crap. If it feels good go for it.