MK 2 engine size

[philipbrown123]

I am going to look at a 2005 S for sale on Saturday. I have just done a HPi check and car engine size is shown as 3600cc. I was under the impression that the S model was 4000 cc. Could this be a non S badged as an S or are the non S models also 4000 cc and there is an error on the HPi check.

Any info gratefully received

Phil ( Cerb Speed 6 owner )

[mk1fan]

On a TVR anything is possible. Could be a chassis and body 'S' spec'd from the factory with the 3.6.

[glow worm]

It's NOT an 'S' if it's 3.6 litres.

[canski]

As I understand it all Mk1 & Mk2 "S" variants were 4.0 litre. To be sure why not ask a TVR expert such as STR8SIX (several others are available) especially if you have more details such as chassis number. There are loads of posts about "S" spec cars that are on PH, such things as bigger brakes, AC as std. Be aware that spoilers were fitted to many non "S" cars as after market. Best to have eyes open. Good Luck. Dave

[nrick]

There was an s pack option as well according to the brochure which wasn't an S.

The engine number should tell you the size?

Not uncommon for there to be a mix up at DVLA or at the factory or they may have run out of engines or the owner may have made an 'S' , so many combinations!

[glow worm]

nrick said:

There was an s pack option as well according to the brochure which wasn't an S.

Untrue ... Pistonheads is a great source of mis information

Edited by glow worm on Thursday 12th May 17:50

[alspeed]

Could have had an engine swap at some time ?

[MartH70]

Ours is listed as a 3.6 on the documents but is a 4 litres, think tvr were rubbish with their records, check the engine number to confirm.

[Tuscanite]

The FACT of the matter is that this was incorrectly registered as 3.6l by DVLA and neither i nor the previous owners have been bothered to change it. The car is a standard Mk2 Tuscan S. Any doubts, ask Jason or Chas at Str8Six who pointed this out to me originally.

[robsco]

TVR were buggers for this, indeed my 4.5 Cerb is registered as a 4.2 as many others were. Obviously the tradition continued with the Tuscans.

[nrick]

glow worm said:

nrick said:

There was an s pack option as well according to the brochure which wasn't an S.

Untrue ... Pistonheads is a great source of mis information

Edited by glow worm on Thursday 12th May 17:50

In my defence if I have to have one

TVR made several different decisions on how they referred to the models during the confusing times during Mk2 production.

The mk1 was quite easy with there being 2 distinct models - Tuscan and Tuscan S, well actually scrap that as there were 3 or 2 depending on definition and include the Red rose which was a conversion but not really designated as a model

Evidence No 1 - TVR brochure c2001 http://storm.oldcarmanualproject.com/tvrtuscan2005...

Evidence No 2 - TVR brochure c2002

Move onto the Mk2/Mk3 targa and Mk1/2/3 convertible depending on your preference

I haven't owed a Mk2 (only a mk1 and a Mk1/2/3 convertible) so I don't have the brochure to hand but I have ordered one to see how they referred to it and will update when I have it but here is the Convertible bit

Price list from 2005 - Again 2 separate models http://thumbsnap.com/3py63pPT

Card from 2006 : Introduction of the Sports Pack http://thumbsnap.com/hvJVRosj

Price list from 2007 where the S Pack is an option and not designated as a separate model http://thumbsnap.com/f/d1ihgSKE

Brochure from 2007 where the S Pack is a £8500 option pack

The interesting thing is that in 2005 I went to buy a Tuscan and they had a Mk2/3 targa with a sports pack but not with a 4.0 engine and no big spoiler. I didn't personally like the big spoiler and got to the point of working out finance and insurance before a change of plan. The reason I remember was I struggled to explain what the model was as it didn't appear on the database, i.e. 3.6 with sports pack but without being an S It had all the S options that I could tell and the dealer was certain that it was not a 4.0, HID, DAB, air con and I think there was some confusion over the gearbox. This may have been a freak of nature and a genuine mistake by the factory or a cancelled customer order or a special order by the dealer but at the time I didn't ask the salesman to sit down and write a statement for use in 11 years time

If you refer to this EVO article (Mk1/2/3 Convertible) it describes a sports specification but we know that they did an S version http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=122...

So in summary as usual with TVR's it is as clear as mud as to what they actually supplied and called the models, but I do love them all

The factory were also very accommodating to customer needs in terms of tailoring cars to customers, some customers have also modified cars ( My own car was altered by The Surveyor and given S (or Sports pack) brakes and driven 63k miles horror or horror. I have booked it in to a car shrink as it is starting to look confused as to what it is, my MK1 was std but had an S badge ( I did buy a new std badge but never fitted it) but that also had S brakes.

What would really clear things up is a database of build sheets for the T cars, if only someone had one

All of this is even before we start to talk about engine outputs 365, 380, 390, 400hp are all mentioned for 4.0l , 350hp for the 3.6? That is if it is on an original engine! I still have no idea what gbox and diff is fitted to my car.

The owner has now popped up and explained that it is an original S and there was an issue with the factory/DVLA which was mentioned much earlier in the post.

Hope that helps

(I also learnt tonight that the convertible was first shown at the 2004 motorshow)

[glow worm]

My point is that we are talking about engines a Speed Six S engine (with red cam cover, blue for std, black for 3.6, once Nikolai insisted on them being painted) has different components and were fitted to Tuscan S models and Sagaris. I would also regard Stiffer rear springs and larger exhaust manifold,front splitter and badges are specific to an S model.
The Tuscan Sports Pack offered on the convertible and on later Targas includes a number of features (some of which could be obtained as separate items)... Air Con,CR Box,Gas Discharge lights, Brake upgrade,Full leather.
I also regard there was only one Convertible be it S or Std .... and there was never an official MK3 just a wavey dash referred internally as the MK3 dash.

The original marketing info for the Convertible also has the non S version as a 3,6 and I have the customer specification sheets where a number were ordered as 3.6 models . But the sheets have been modified and all were delivered as 4 litre.
The delay in the release of the convertible after PWs motorshow launch was Nikolai wanted an electrically operated roof... all of which proved to difficult for TVR engineers, so the resorted to the tried and tested way.

PS Thanks for reproducing some my documents

Edited by glow worm on Friday 13th May 09:38

[Fido05]

The 2004 motor show car was, from the headlight configuration probably a 3.6. I believe it was originally intended that the 3.6 cars both tagra and convertible would have this configuration and the 4.0 cars would have both lights covered however by the time of production it was decided that all cars should have both the lights covered and there are probably very few cars with this one open one covered configuration.

[nrick]

I don't think even if we concentrate on the engines that there is a standard.

Power outputs were quoted from 350hp to 400hp (3.6-4.0s) with a variety of outputs actually achieved through testing on rolling roads (historically difficult to replicate rolling road to rolling road).

My understanding , and please bear in mind I am just a simple engineer is that the 'benefits' of the S spec were

Fuel injectors
Fuel Map
Exhaust bore size (I think the manifolds were the same)
Compression ratio raised?

Have I missed anything that is fact? Dom might have an insight Come on Dom tell us the truth?

I am not aware of any cam differences except for the GT spec cams which is where you would expect most power to be liberated at the expense of other characteristics, drivability, idle etc.

Maybe we should organise a mass trial of S6 engines and see the distribution and outputs achieved, although I doubt many will be factory spec any more. I bet there were good 3.6's and poor 4.0's and a large distribution and the margins were quite tight.

Specs needed

Bore x Stroke
Compression
Valve size
Cam Lift
Cam duration
Fuel injection size (Shouldn't really matter unless it is marginal)
Airbox design and trumpet length (Same?)
Injection map optimisation?
Exhaust size
Manifold size

Edited by nrick on Friday 13th May 19:42

[DAKOTAstorm]

As I understand it the 'Sports pack' and the 'S' model designation were to be two different things. The 'Sports Pack' was to be an extra available on all cars. I have a mk2 S, a pre production test car, in the software and selectable from the buttons on steering wheel is a 'Sports' activation. However in true TVR electronics style, I can not select it and on certain days when I start the car a 'S' appears in a circle on the digital screen, it may hang around for a few minutes then disappear, then come back on a few minutes later, before again disappearing. This was to be the indicator that the Sports pack option had been selected and is active.

[nrick]

[nrick]

DAKOTAstorm said:

As I understand it the 'Sports pack' and the 'S' model designation were to be two different things. The 'Sports Pack' was to be an extra available on all cars. I have a mk2 S, a pre production test car, in the software and selectable from the buttons on steering wheel is a 'Sports' activation. However in true TVR electronics style, I can not select it and on certain days when I start the car a 'S' appears in a circle on the digital screen, it may hang around for a few minutes then disappear, then come back on a few minutes later, before again disappearing. This was to be the indicator that the Sports pack option had been selected and is active.

I am sure I have an article where they describe just that, they may just have changed their mind about how and what was it was described as. It was how it was described by the dealer

Std
Std with sports pack
S

Anyway I can't evidence this at the moment, but

[glow worm]

Fido05 said:

The 2004 motor show car was, from the headlight configuration probably a 3.6. I believe it was originally intended that the 3.6 cars both tagra and convertible would have this configuration and the 4.0 cars would have both lights covered however by the time of production it
was decided that all cars should have both the lights covered and there are probably very few cars with this one open one covered configuration.

It was a modified MK1
and it was with a Sports Pack or not when I ordered mine new in Jan'06. So are you trying tell me mine wasn't an 'S' ? ... well it isn't now 'cos it's 4.5 SS

Edited by glow worm on Friday 13th May 19:47

[nrick]

I have another Price/Specification if you want a copy of it that isn't on 'your' page featuring the 2006 Tusan targa, vert and Sag

[matt-man]

My wedge is a 3.9 but log book shows 3.5. TVR were rubbish a paperwork!