Smoking Tuscan

[8ball_Rob]

Took the Tuscan into work today, all was fine until I parked up at the end of the journey and saw plumes of white smoke billowing out from the N/S bonnet vent. There wasn't a huge amount of smoke, it didn't have any particular odour as far as I could tell, and it did stop of its own accord after about a minute.

I'm understandably a bit wary about driving her back home this evening - didn't have time to check under the main bonnet, but I'll pop down at lunchtime and have a look inside to see if there's any obvious signs of damage. Any suggestions as to possible causes, and what to look out for?

FYI, the car had a rebuild way back in 2006 but has only done about 15,000 miles since then. Also, the oil level is slightly over the 'max' mark (have only had the car just over a week and it was like that when I picked it up). Oil pressure when cold is around 65-70psi, hot idle seems to be around 22psi. That seems to be a bit higher than normal, but perhaps not excessively so

[m4tti]

Cam cover is leaking oil onto the exhaust manifolds...

[fat80b]

Sure it wasn't just water / Steam rather than oil based smoke. Less likely at the end of the journey but fairly common after the car has been washed / got v wet.

Bob

[8ball_Rob]

Thanks Matt, that sounds like the most likely explanation - just found an old thread here that describes very similar symptoms to mine, and points to a leaky cam cover as the cause.

I'll take a look at the cam cover later to see what sort of state it's in...

[KSV]

I had that with my Tuscan it was overfilled with water and it spits it out to get to the correct level. If someone over filled the oil they could have done the same with the water. Also had a cam cover leak but that was blue smoke.

[QBee]

Not familiar with the Tuscan layout, but I can get this effect on my Chimaera by overfilling the power steering fluid reservoir.
Once everything is hot, it chucks out the surplus all over the exhaust manifold. So if the reservoir is anywhere over that side, just see if it looks wet.

Again, different engine, but slightly overfilling the oil is standard track-day advice on the Rover V8, and we never have this issue.

[8ball_Rob]

Hi Bob/Colin, thanks for the input - I'd say water is probably unlikely to be the cause as the coolant level looks fine. The car did get caught in a rain shower yesterday afternoon, but has since had about 90mins driving with the engine warmed up, so I wouldn't have thought there'd be any standing water left in the engine bay. I'll keep an eye out for any pools hiding in nooks and crannies when I've got the main bonnet off later though, just in case that's the cause

[Milky400]

Over pressurising pushing water out of the expansion tank.

This unfortunately was happening to mine and may have gone unnoticed for a while, although I was losing water it was only a very small amount 250ml tops every 1000 miles . The engine is now with Dom. Get it checked and diagnosed to either out your mind at rest, or plan for future works.

Where did you buy it, private or trade?

[8ball_Rob]

Thanks everyone for the advice - I think the prize goes to M4tti:



It definitely looks as though the cam cover is leaking oil near cylinder no.1 (if I've got the numbering in the right order). There's quite a bit of residue on the cover in that area, and the beads of sealant are wet to the touch with what looks and smells like oil. I guess that might also explain the smell of hydrocarbons on start-up - I thought it might just be a case of 'they all do that sir', having never driven another Tuscan for comparison, but perhaps a leaking cam cover could have something to do with it...

If I'm feeling brave I might have a go at removing and re-fitting the cam cover this weekend - looks like a fairly manageable job from a quick forum search, with a bit of time and patience. Seems like I could be getting down and dirty with the speed six slightly earlier than anticipated

[m4tti]

Hi Rob,
At the end of a journey when the oil is thin it takes a small amount as the oil is at its most mobile. It drops down hits the manifold and the smoke begins.

One option is to use purpose made viton gasket, then you no longer have to mess about with RTV.

You probably want to get it sorted as enough oil could eventually flash up.

Edited by m4tti on Thursday 14th July 17:31

[8ball_Rob]

Update: I managed to get the car home last night without any dramas, and there was no sign of any fresh oil around the cam cover when I checked at the end of the journey. Having said that, the journey home took less than half an hour and the oil temp only peaked in the high 60s. I'm sure the temperature would have been higher after the morning commute as I'd spent a bit of time stuck in traffic (probably got up to the 80s), so this observation fits with Matt's theory about the leak only occurring at high temperatures when the oil is thin enough to escape.

Just one thought before I start messing with the cam cover - is that an oil hose running around the front N/S corner of the engine and over the manifolds (visible in photo above)? If so, I should probably rule that out as the cause of the leak first... of course if the hose doesn't carry oil then I think I can safely pin the blame on the cam cover.

ETA: I've just posted in the Speed Six forum with a couple of questions re. removing/refitting the cam cover, in case I need to go down that route - any tips would be much appreciated:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Edited by 8ball_Rob on Friday 15th July 09:01

[nawarne]

8ball_Rob said:

Update: I managed to get the car home last night without any dramas, and there was no sign of any fresh oil around the cam cover when I checked at the end of the journey. Having said that, the journey home took less than half an hour and the oil temp only peaked in the high 60s. I'm sure the temperature would have been higher after the morning commute as I'd spent a bit of time stuck in traffic (probably got up to the 80s), so this observation fits with Matt's theory about the leak only occurring at high temperatures when the oil is thin enough to escape.

Just one thought before I start messing with the cam cover - is that an oil hose running around the front N/S corner of the engine and over the manifolds (visible in photo above)? If so, I should probably rule that out as the cause of the leak first... of course if the hose doesn't carry oil then I think I can safely pin the blame on the cam cover.

I'd agree with Matt's appraisal - and your detective work.
Likely cause is cam cover leak. The allen bolts may just nip up. Start from middle, and work to front and back - just 1/2 turn. Problem with RTV gasket is that it does 'relax' after a while, so tightening fixings may cure the weep.

The hose/pipe combination in your pic' is coolant to the heater matrix...so would be water/coolant mix within.
Nick

[8ball_Rob]

Hi Nick,

Sounds like a good tip, thanks - I'll give that a go later and see if tightening the bolts has any effect. My favourite part about that plan is that it gives me a convenient excuse to take the car out on Saturday for a decent blast! After all, I won't know if the problem's been fixed unless I run it long enough to get the oil up to temperature

[anonymous-user]

I must say that looks like a relatively clean joint cant see that's the issue from the photo, certainly not something to cause billowing smoke! Best bet is to simply replicate the smoke but this time lift the bonnet

[QBee]

If you look on PH Classifieds in the parts section, TVR, there is an advert for a bonnet conversion, which allows you full access like a normal bonnet.
There was also a thread recently by a guy who had it done, saying what good quality it was and how much care was taken. Might be worth considering. Will allow instant spannering and reduce risk of bonnet damage when you do want to inspect the oily bits

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/parts-and-p...

[m4tti]

V6Pushfit said:

I must say that looks like a relatively clean joint cant see that's the issue from the photo, certainly not something to cause billowing smoke! Best bet is to simply replicate the smoke but this time lift the bonnet

Thats typically how it looks when its leaking.. almost leaves a varnish on the cam cover and head. The head is tilted so it drips straight down on the manifold..

[de Sade]

Forgive my ignorance and this is just a heads up if it is steam rather than smoke,my heater matrix packed up recently and had lots of steam/smoke appearing on the nearside of the car...again sorry if it is smoke and not steam issue.

[anonymous-user]

A few drips of oil wouldn't cause billowing smoke. Be interesting to know what it turns out to be!

[m4tti]

Yes it does. I've just recently replaced a torn cam cover gasket. The speed six generates a lot of heat, in the manifold area and theyre tubular steel manifolds. Do you own one of these cars.

Edited by m4tti on Friday 15th July 23:34

Edited by m4tti on Saturday 16th July 08:05

[anonymous-user]

I agree if the oil is under pressure as it will squirt but otherwise it's more likely to happen at the beginning of a journey where it's had time to seep and saturate the manifold area, burning off in the first 10 miles and accompanied by a hell of a smell. It still won't quite fit the billowing white smoke description though.

Yes I have even, and yes I do even but it's the original model but exactly the same problem with almost red hot headers at times and sloping gasket arrangement.