What's the appeal of the Tuscan S?

What's the appeal of the Tuscan S?

Author
Discussion

RikJonAtk

Original Poster:

202 posts

94 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
I'm the proud owner of a Mk1 Tuscan Red Rose and I try to keep an eye on what the market is doing. One thing I've never got my head around is the S pricing... Give or take a bit they're about twice the price of a normal Tuscan, but why?

Any benefit of factory-fit springs/shocks/brakes is long since gone and at 400ish BHP it's only about 10BHP more than mine, while technological advances around ECUs, Heads, Engine re-builds, etc... mean it's easy - albeit not cheap - to get more power from a 'normal' Tuscan for less than the Tuscan / Tuscan S price difference. There are the changes to the body work, but i can't see that justifying it.

Is it just willy waving driving the price? Surely not though because I'd be pretty miffed if I spent Tuscan S money only to find a mildly fettled none-S was just as fast... And personally I think the none-S is better looking too.

Any insights?

Milky400

1,960 posts

177 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
not sure on the "nearly twice as much" but agree a definite premium. Performance is irrelevant its down to rarity..

if the Tuscan becomes and "True Classic" then the lower volume production of the S should make it in theory worth more. People may also want originality, so yes you can get engine upgrades, ECU etc but collectors will want an original car.

I personally don't like the S, the rear wing doesn't do it for me as well as the rear light layout. I'm also one for originality and have just had to have a rebuild and opted for the standard 3.6. Some of this was down to finance, which I could have raised however I want to keep that car as original as I possibly could (within reason)

philipbrown123

406 posts

116 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
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Having studied every Tuscan for sale advert for the last 2 years and buying a MK2 S 2 months ago, I would say the premium is more like 20/30 % for an S over a non S. No way is it nearly double.

Griffithy

929 posts

275 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
Ses are usually different and much better and nicer equipped from the start
(cams, cr-gearbox, ac, brakes, lights, carpets etc..)
and also feel different on the road.

Of course you could bring a NonS up to that level,
which would not be cheap if you do it all,
but it would still not be the real one eventually.

The nonS might be prettier, the S looks the business in my eye.

RikJonAtk

Original Poster:

202 posts

94 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
philipbrown123 said:
Having studied every Tuscan for sale advert for the last 2 years and buying a MK2 S 2 months ago, I would say the premium is more like 20/30 % for an S over a non S. No way is it nearly double.
Average asking price of an S is about £46k on PH right now.

Average asking price of Mk1 none-S is about £27k on PH right now.

I'm sorry for exaggerating, it's not double, it's 'only' a 70% premium.

philipbrown123

406 posts

116 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
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Are you comparing MK 1 non S with MK 2 S ?

8ball_Rob

219 posts

102 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
RikJonAtk said:
Average asking price of an S is about £46k on PH right now.

Average asking price of Mk1 none-S is about £27k on PH right now.

I'm sorry for exaggerating, it's not double, it's 'only' a 70% premium.
It looks like all of the 'S's currently being advertised are Mk2 cars though, so comparing them to the price of Mk1 non-S cars is really comparing apples and oranges. There are only two non-S Mk2s advertised, at 37.5k and 38k (albeit one of those has S bodywork apparently), which would put the premium at about 8k (between 20-25%).

To get a true picture of the premium you would need to compare the average price of early Mk1 'S' cars to early Mk1 non-S cars. There don't seem to be any Mk1 S cars for sale at the moment though, which I guess just illustrates the point about rarity! I'm sure I have seen Mk1 S's for sale in the high 20s and low 30s over the past year though.

...edited to fix typos rolleyes


Edited by 8ball_Rob on Tuesday 2nd August 13:29

The Surveyor

7,576 posts

236 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
edited because my reply was soooo off topic it wasn't worth the space. should have read the OP!


Edited by The Surveyor on Tuesday 2nd August 14:25

TOV!E

2,016 posts

233 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
RikJonAtk said:
Average asking price of an S is about £46k on PH right now.

Average asking price of Mk1 none-S is about £27k on PH right now.

I'm sorry for exaggerating, it's not double, it's 'only' a 70% premium.
You have got that so wrong matey, you are on about totally different cars, MK1s around £26k.... MK3 Wavey dash S around £45k
Mk2s Baboons arse dash around £35k

ZCoupe

167 posts

189 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
TOV!E said:
You have got that so wrong matey, you are on about totally different cars, MK1s around £26k.... MK3 Wavey dash S around £45k
Mk2s Baboons arse dash around £35k
Where did you see a good real MK1 S for around GBP 26k? I could be interested.
So far I have seen good and real ones around GBP 33k.

Edited by ZCoupe on Tuesday 2nd August 14:49

RikJonAtk

Original Poster:

202 posts

94 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
All the hair-splitting that's going on is exactly my point. Aside from cosmetics and age / mileage, there's basically no difference between one car and the next, be that a Mk1 none-S or a Mk2 S, yet prices vary hugely... Yes I know there ARE differences, but I don't understand how people justify the price uplift for those differences given how small they are, beyond wanting 'on-paper' bragging rights?!


glow worm

5,796 posts

226 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
Firstly comparing a MK1 to a MK2 is not comparing the same thing ... lightweight carbon shell, much improved chassis powder coating, electric Pas vs engine, Harvey bailey springs and dampers vs Eibach / Bilstiens, many engine modifications ,newer MBE ECU and wiring loom,much improved slower less twitchy worm gear on the steering rack and age (1999-2004 vs 2004-2006).
An S vs a non S .... well brakes,aircon,engine components, some cr /3.72 diffs but not all, full leather interior , Spring rates, and the larger spoiler was optional.

Just a few thoughts of the top of my head
PS and I never mentioned Indian produced steel finger followers smile

Edited by glow worm on Tuesday 2nd August 17:56

ackbullchang

270 posts

209 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
glow worm said:
An S vs a non S .... well brakes,aircon,engine components

Edited by glow worm on Tuesday 2nd August 17:56
On engine components, is there anyone involved with the build of the engines at the factory on here, and could confirm what the differences actually were? I've heard from several people that the only difference between the S and the non S engine spec (for 4 litre cars) was only cam timing and injectors. It would be good to know.

Dutch_Cerbera

417 posts

191 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
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These might interest you and/or others

Big GT

1,798 posts

91 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
After looking for months and months for Mk1, viewing well over a dozen I test drove 4 which all were Mk1S' .All different drives, handling, noise, vibration, feel etc etc.
I eventually purchased a 2003 Mk1 none S without driving it (took the plunge it was the best example I had inspected). I had the suspension upgraded to Bilstiens with front spacers and it drives better than the others.

I guess my point is, unless your after ultimate bragging rights or your ragging it to its limit on a track (brave boy) there is no real world difference.
For me, the looks of the none S, condition, suspension setup is far more important and noticeable than extra 30bhp.

However if prices keeps increasing on the Mk1 an S will hold a solid premium!!






Dickie Dastardly

718 posts

165 months

Wednesday 3rd August 2016
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I'm of course probably bias but having had a 4ltr Chim then wishing I'd got a 4.5 or 5ltr I decided from the outset I wanted an S when upgrading to a Tuscan. I have not been disappointed, the car is great, handles well, goes like a train and looks the dogs (in my opinion of course). I agree with the performance points that there is not much between them, that does not bother me as I don't wring its neck anyway - it's just great having a car which turns heads looks and sounds great and is pretty rare on the roads...


robsco

7,822 posts

175 months

Thursday 4th August 2016
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glow worm said:
lightweight carbon shell
Edited by glow worm on Tuesday 2nd August 17:56
Could you elaborate on this?

glow worm

5,796 posts

226 months

Thursday 4th August 2016
quotequote all
TVR changed the type of fibre matting in later years resulting in lighter weight panels. My Tuscan convertible roof is much larger than my Chims, and if they were made of the same material I would find it difficult to lift the Tuscan roof smile .

RikJonAtk

Original Poster:

202 posts

94 months

Thursday 4th August 2016
quotequote all
glow worm said:
TVR changed the type of fibre matting in later years resulting in lighter weight panels. My Tuscan convertible roof is much larger than my Chims, and if they were made of the same material I would find it difficult to lift the Tuscan roof smile .
Eh? The roof on my 2001 weighs the same as another tuscan i know from 2003... and they're both pretty light and very easy to remove solo. Same for the bonnet.

Are you sure this isn't another TVR myth?

glow worm

5,796 posts

226 months

Thursday 4th August 2016
quotequote all
RikJonAtk said:
Eh? The roof on my 2001 weighs the same as another tuscan i know from 2003... and they're both pretty light and very easy to remove solo. Same for the bonnet.

Are you sure this isn't another TVR myth?
Do you know the difference between a Tuscan Targa and a Tuscan Convertible ? Here's a picture so that you know smile


Edited by glow worm on Thursday 4th August 09:58