Beaten by an M3 ?
Discussion
I'm with Joolz and Mingo (
) on this one.
If the M3 had the SMG2 with launch control you would be hard pressed to nail him away from the lights.
The tuscan is faster under ideal conditions but this rarely happens in the REAL WORLD. It is very easy to become fixated with theoretical figures and pub talk but an M3 could deliver a sharp dose of reality if the conditions were not ideal.
As mentioned earlier it is all down to the driver and how comitted/skillful he/she is.
Chill out. No one is saying your cars are shite, just that they are not the fastest things in the universe. (Can't believe I had the temerity to say that
)
>> Edited by ro_butler on Tuesday 25th November 12:41
) on this one. If the M3 had the SMG2 with launch control you would be hard pressed to nail him away from the lights.
The tuscan is faster under ideal conditions but this rarely happens in the REAL WORLD. It is very easy to become fixated with theoretical figures and pub talk but an M3 could deliver a sharp dose of reality if the conditions were not ideal.
As mentioned earlier it is all down to the driver and how comitted/skillful he/she is.
Chill out. No one is saying your cars are shite, just that they are not the fastest things in the universe. (Can't believe I had the temerity to say that
) >> Edited by ro_butler on Tuesday 25th November 12:41
The Guy that I raced in his M3 stopped at a petrol station further up the M8 and had a chat with me, he was very surprised how young I was for a start being a mere 25 and secondly he couldn't believe how quick my car was, his M3 had all the toys SMG2 included and he confessed to me there was no way he could catch me.
His qoute was 'wish my bloddy wife would let me buy one of those it goes like a rocket ship, never get married son unless it's to your motor'
His qoute was 'wish my bloddy wife would let me buy one of those it goes like a rocket ship, never get married son unless it's to your motor'
My bro.. tries his damn hardest in his chipped up new M3 to keep up with my Tamora.. only to be blitzed every time.. by the time i hit the magic ton he's history... the Tuscan would do the same in a straight line.. come on guys TVR's rule the drag race! check the stats... just can't wait to see the new T440R take some real big players to the cleaners...
Roch...Rich,
No offence, it just tickled me
Nick,
All TVR owners seem to big up the drag capabilities of the cars but very few actually go to santa pod (or similar) to prove it. One guy on the cerbera forum did and got some good times, top marks to him as I bet it wasn't easy.
It would be easy to get really crap times as TVR's are tricky to launch. M3's are much easier.
One of the best qualities of my cerb was the fact it was challenging to drive quickly. I reckon I could have been quicker in some other cars (maybe) but not had as much satisfaction.
No offence, it just tickled me
Nick,
All TVR owners seem to big up the drag capabilities of the cars but very few actually go to santa pod (or similar) to prove it. One guy on the cerbera forum did and got some good times, top marks to him as I bet it wasn't easy.
It would be easy to get really crap times as TVR's are tricky to launch. M3's are much easier.
One of the best qualities of my cerb was the fact it was challenging to drive quickly. I reckon I could have been quicker in some other cars (maybe) but not had as much satisfaction.
Ok, here goes:
-1 relatively inexperienced driver (probably similar in ability to most of you)
-1 tired Cerbera 4.5 (42000 miles/ 97 car) and it needed a service, you all know how they feel out of tune just before a freshen up. Even when running at its usual rate it produces extremely average 4.5 power...
-2 BMW M3's, both alot newer (obviously) and IIRC one was an SMG (both drivers as good as dad or better - they were in the licence category above him)
-1 slow 1/4 mile (bumpy and very slippery compared with pod etc, so times reflect this)
The TVR Cerbera does 109 terminal speed @ 14.15 (which speed wise is equivelent to a late 12 sec run at pod)
Its a very slow 1/4 mile, just how slow is proved by a Tuscan Racer present with 490-500bhp 800ish kilos - it achieved runs of around 12.5, a figure which is usually a good run for a standard car on a grippier drag strip.
For the sake of this argument lets presume the Cerbera and Tuscan S are even in pace (please dont start that again!!)
The two BMWs couldnt break the 15 second barrier and a F360 F1 was also a half second down on the Cerbera. 1 second is a pretty reasonable advantage over just a 1/4 mile. I think this would be noticeable even on road (the Brighton speed trials are held on public roads remember). Especially as the Tuscan has better traction due to softer suspension and therefore better weight transfer (traction wise atleast!)
I cant see any reasonable evidence that the standard BMW would be able to keep up over a reasonable distance, let alone beat the TVR. Unless of course it was really really wet, but then again thats a pointless battle - if it was snow I bet my smart would leave most of your TVR's/M3s spinning away
*********I STRESS THIS IS A JOKE, OK, A JOKE******
Lets face it, both cars are straight six time bombs, so the smart would probably win in the dry too
***************************************************
Enjoy your cars and get practising with your starts, theres always a BMW M3 waiting to be beaten somewhere...
-1 relatively inexperienced driver (probably similar in ability to most of you)
-1 tired Cerbera 4.5 (42000 miles/ 97 car) and it needed a service, you all know how they feel out of tune just before a freshen up. Even when running at its usual rate it produces extremely average 4.5 power...
-2 BMW M3's, both alot newer (obviously) and IIRC one was an SMG (both drivers as good as dad or better - they were in the licence category above him)
-1 slow 1/4 mile (bumpy and very slippery compared with pod etc, so times reflect this)
The TVR Cerbera does 109 terminal speed @ 14.15 (which speed wise is equivelent to a late 12 sec run at pod)
Its a very slow 1/4 mile, just how slow is proved by a Tuscan Racer present with 490-500bhp 800ish kilos - it achieved runs of around 12.5, a figure which is usually a good run for a standard car on a grippier drag strip.
For the sake of this argument lets presume the Cerbera and Tuscan S are even in pace (please dont start that again!!)
The two BMWs couldnt break the 15 second barrier and a F360 F1 was also a half second down on the Cerbera. 1 second is a pretty reasonable advantage over just a 1/4 mile. I think this would be noticeable even on road (the Brighton speed trials are held on public roads remember). Especially as the Tuscan has better traction due to softer suspension and therefore better weight transfer (traction wise atleast!)
I cant see any reasonable evidence that the standard BMW would be able to keep up over a reasonable distance, let alone beat the TVR. Unless of course it was really really wet, but then again thats a pointless battle - if it was snow I bet my smart would leave most of your TVR's/M3s spinning away
*********I STRESS THIS IS A JOKE, OK, A JOKE******
Lets face it, both cars are straight six time bombs, so the smart would probably win in the dry too
***************************************************
Enjoy your cars and get practising with your starts, theres always a BMW M3 waiting to be beaten somewhere...
I have driven as well as been a passenger in the present M3(with SMG) to my mind quite a lot off the pace of Tuscan (actual speed not sensation of)it is a better car in a number of other respect's, no question but again that is only my opinion, however there is someone on here (sorry to be too lazy to look) that own's (has owned?) both car's at the same time (E46M3 and Tuscan)I would say he is by far best placed to make a comparison.
I have never been beaten by any other car in my Tuscan.....because I ignore them. If they wish to receive a large fine/ban/uninsureable status for racing on the public highway then they can crack right on and f@*k right off. To misquote a well known phrase. 'To finish second first you have to start'. I'm perfectly content with the proportions of my nether regions and have nothing to prove to some pathetic fool in a souped up repwagen.
Pompously yours
McS
>> Edited by mcspreader on Wednesday 26th November 03:17
Pompously yours
McS
>> Edited by mcspreader on Wednesday 26th November 03:17
BCA said:
Unless of course it was really really wet, but then again thats a pointless battle
Why is this pointless? Look out of the window, these are the conditions we are forced to drive in for a large part of the year. In this weather you can embarass many sportscars, even in something like a ford focus, if you are silly enough
McSpreader,
Absolutely spot on. The tuscan driver probably wasn't even trying, I know I rarely did. That way when you stack it there are no witnesses
edited to add:
Fair points BCA. Your dad must be quite a useful driver though. I'd expect a cerbie to beat an M3 by over a second over the 1/4 under ideal conditions, and I think the cerbie is trickier when conditions get bad.
Also the guy with the SMG probably wasn't using launch control. If you use it too often BMW can get funny about the warranty. Pathetic
>> Edited by ro_butler on Wednesday 26th November 11:22
mcspreader said:
I have never been beaten by any other car in my Tuscan.....because I ignore them. If they wish to receive a large fine/ban/uninsureable status for racing on the public highway then they can crack right on and f@*k right off. To misquote a well known phrase. 'To finish second first you have to start'. I'm perfectly content with the proportions of my nether regions and have nothing to prove to some pathetic fool in a souped up repwagen.
Pompously yours
McS
Im generally with you on this.
I find chugging along in the inner lanes in the Tuscan and having Mr Thrusting-businessman scream past in the outside lane to be a reinforcement of my self-satisfaction and smuggness
Although every now and again, inorder to overtake an HGV or slow-car, i may find it necessary to go to warp in the middle lane coincidentally just as Mr Thrusting-businessman is attempting to haul past in the outside lane.
Ro.. i don't have to big up any stats or figures i'm just stating what i've experienced driving these incredible machines.. Yes the technique is probably a little harder in a TVR but when its applied properly these cars are in another league... i think the Tamora and T350 are a bit more user friendly compared to a cerbera and Tuscan...
ro_butler said:
Unless of course it was really really wet, but then again thats a pointless battle
Why is this pointless? Look out of the window, these are the conditions we are forced to drive in for a large part of the year. In this weather you can embarass many sportscars, even in something like a ford focus, if you are silly enough
That is precisely why it is pointless, if its REALLY REALLY wet then theres no point in going for it, as you say - a lower powered car (that isnt RWD) would get a shout. I dont think the average weather of this country would be enough to balance things out though. Certainly when launching off in the wet at sprints it tended to make half a seconds difference at most. Baring in mind the BM would be affected too I really cant see it getting much of an advantage.
ro_butler said:
Also the guy with the SMG probably wasn't using launch control. If you use it too often BMW can get funny about the warranty. Pathetic
Even so, it would suprise me if he wasnt pretty talented at getting the car off the line. I certainly dont think he would be a second slower than the SMG could be.
*McSpreader:
My thoughts exactly, hence why dad went to the speed trials and is learning (slowly) to sprint/hillclimb. I hope to join him as soon as funds allow, for the mean time however I love to have the odd traffic light grand prix. (as long as its dry and a straight bit of road obviously!) My car simply doesnt accelerate fast enough to be dangerous/ unpredictable and I always stop at the speed limit.
I believe the Highway code insists its best to accelerate as quickly and safely as possible to road speed too. In a car with 55bhp and more leccy aids than most cars with ten times that power it really is almost impossible to do anything too stupid. If I had a TVR though I dont think I would bother, I would far prefer to go to the Bruntingthorpe Vmax days. Far far better to do a drag race to beyond 170 with a runways worth of space.
Far from the public highway the Tuscan will always win against the BusinessMansWagen.
Its lighter.
It has a softer set up at the back - yes really - to aid traction.
It has more power and considerably more area under the at the wheels torque curve which is the true measure of accelerative potential.
It's probably not driven by a rep.
The repwagen's traction control merely ameliorates poor technique by REDUCING power. Launch control, I believe is exclusive to the SMG cars. Real men don't drive automatics. They just don't.
Now putting a bag of sand in the boot like in the old days. That'll have the Trevor half way to the 1/4 before the Idiot DRIver's Veto Electronics from the land of black bread and sausage has decided to stop suppressing enjoyment. Don't trust this endless march towards driverless cars. Its a trick. The final software solution has already been written. It takes you to a railway siding in Poland where the sporty exhaust noise bypass valve does its real business.
Its lighter.
It has a softer set up at the back - yes really - to aid traction.
It has more power and considerably more area under the at the wheels torque curve which is the true measure of accelerative potential.
It's probably not driven by a rep.
The repwagen's traction control merely ameliorates poor technique by REDUCING power. Launch control, I believe is exclusive to the SMG cars. Real men don't drive automatics. They just don't.
Now putting a bag of sand in the boot like in the old days. That'll have the Trevor half way to the 1/4 before the Idiot DRIver's Veto Electronics from the land of black bread and sausage has decided to stop suppressing enjoyment. Don't trust this endless march towards driverless cars. Its a trick. The final software solution has already been written. It takes you to a railway siding in Poland where the sporty exhaust noise bypass valve does its real business.
I too just sold an M3, but in favour of a 4.5 Cerbera. The M3 simply CANNOT compete with TVR power. I'm still smiling, from the TVR's power delivery! That's part of the reason I sold it. The M3's gearing/grip may allow it to lunge off of line a little quicker, but thereafter its simply outclassed. I would not wish to meet the M3 on a windy bumpy road though!
mcspreader said:
It's probably not driven by a rep.
LMAO
Ben,
Fair points again. My SMG bit was about the fact he doesn't have a clutch (IIRC) and without launch control he is effectively driving an automatic, ie crap at starts.
HillClimbing is a laugh but I am not sure I would want to compete in a cerbie, the thought of being beaten by some Heath Robinson type contraption is too much for me
Nick,
Not having a pop at you. I owned a cerbie until very recently and it was fast but some owners get carried away. There is a thread somewhere else where people are claiming they beat superbikes (oh please).
Besides, we all know M3's are better than TVRs. Don't belive me? Simply look at the results for Britcar then.
Yes that is a JOKE (before anyone gives me the lowdown on why the TVR didnt win).
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