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Upatdawn

Original Poster:

1,714 posts

34 months

[news] 
Thursday 6th September 2012 quote quote all
Would a Rover 25 1.4 (2002) have a 8v or 16v engine and which is Honda and which is Rover?

oh, and which is best (or do i need to ask?)...

cheers

davepoth

23,321 posts

85 months

[news] 
Saturday 8th September 2012 quote quote all
Upatdawn said:
Would a Rover 25 1.4 (2002) have a 8v or 16v engine and which is Honda and which is Rover?

oh, and which is best (or do i need to ask?)...

cheers
A Rover 25 will always have a Rover K-series, which came in 8 and 16v versions. The 16v version is better.

Cobnapint

1,252 posts

37 months

[news] 
Saturday 8th September 2012 quote quote all
Please don't buy one of these, they are primitive to drive and a swine to push home on your own.

MGJohn

8,460 posts

69 months

[news] 
Monday 22nd October 2012 quote quote all
Cobnapint said:
Please don't buy one of these, they are primitive to drive and a swine to push home on your own.
ACHTUNG! ATTENTIONE!... smile

Anti-Rover mindset alert. smile

Oh dearie me. So what other ten year old car would you suggest which can be picked up for little more than loose change? Maybe something really exotic and superior like a ten year old Vauxhall, Renault, Citroen, Ford, VW or what precisely ? None of which aforementioned have ever been required to be pushed home. They usually are unpushable and required a flatbed truck rescue.

A reasonably well cared for Rover is as reliable as most other ordinary production cars, and in the experience with numerous examples in my family, more reliable. A few years ago, my cousin was most disappointed when she couldn't buy a new Rover to replace her old Rover, which she passed on in the family and is still running well nineteen years later, Her Citroen has been nothing but trouble since day one. Thus, don't buy a Citroen unless you are strong and can push it all the way home. And the pedal positioning is Crap with a capital K! Hateful thing to drive.

Oh dearie me. No bluddy wonder.

paulodivichio

27 posts

44 months

[news] 
Monday 22nd October 2012 quote quote all
Also, they made the 1.4 in 84PS and 104PS variants, although its easy to make the 84PS into a 104PS by changing the throttle body and throttle cable.

I have an 84PS one, and I'll admit only bought it because it was cheap and really didn't expect much from it, however its been really good, hasn't put a foot wrong in the 6000 miles I've driven it and that includes 300 mile motorway cruises and B-road hoons. Gets good mpg and is comfy and fairly quiet... what more can you ask for? Only thing is they seem to use coolant, so make sure you check it regurlarly and top it up if needed and you're onto a winner smile
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MGJohn

8,460 posts

69 months

[news] 
Monday 22nd October 2012 quote quote all
paulodivichio said:
Also, they made the 1.4 in 84PS and 104PS variants, although its easy to make the 84PS into a 104PS by changing the throttle body and throttle cable.

I have an 84PS one, and I'll admit only bought it because it was cheap and really didn't expect much from it, however its been really good, hasn't put a foot wrong in the 6000 miles I've driven it and that includes 300 mile motorway cruises and B-road hoons. Gets good mpg and is comfy and fairly quiet... what more can you ask for? Only thing is they seem to use coolant, so make sure you check it regularly and top it up if needed and you're onto a winner smile
Steady minor coolant loss is usually a sign of a wearing Water Pump, unless perished hose or other worn or badly fitted part the cause.

Check below and around the water pump for any tell tale signs of leaks, dried up stains or fresh wetness, even minor ones.

Overheating following coolant steady losses via a worn water pump is almost certainly the number one cause of damaged cylinder head gaskets on engines.

Once the water pump really gets worn and lets go very suddenly, coolant loss is total and speedy at Motorway speeds. That's when the damage can be severe from very sudden heat build up.

paulodivichio

27 posts

44 months

[news] 
Monday 22nd October 2012 quote quote all
MGJohn said:
Steady minor coolant loss is usually a sign of a wearing Water Pump, unless perished hose or other worn or badly fitted part the cause.

Check below and around the water pump for any tell tale signs of leaks, dried up stains or fresh wetness, even minor ones.

Overheating following coolant steady losses via a worn water pump is almost certainly the number one cause of damaged cylinder head gaskets on engines.

Once the water pump really gets worn and lets go very suddenly, coolant loss is total and speedy at Motorway speeds. That's when the damage can be severe from very sudden heat build up.
Hmmm... Well when I got it, I did a full service, including the cambelt and water pump. It actually seems worse on the shorter journeys I do, when I do a 300 mile journey its fine, when I do the 5 mile trip to work it starts using coolant confused I think it may be leaking from a join at the front of the engine block, where the pipe goes into it... but as of yet I haven't managed to properly track it down!

Ex X Power

41 posts

24 months

[news] 
Monday 22nd October 2012 quote quote all
Have you checked your radiator?, they are notoriously rubbish and rot very easily, I've seen more head gaskets fail through rotten radiators than anything else, Check here first, Next check the inlet manifold gasket, then the heater matrix, Are your carpets wet?? If it is leaking from the coolant elbow as you think the gaskets are replaceable but require most of the coolant dropping out

Pentoman

4,426 posts

149 months

[news] 
Tuesday 23rd October 2012 quote quote all
My friends bought one of these from a scrap yard expecting a few months use out of it. It did them at least three years without going wrong. Drove a 25 not that long ago and it wasn't that bad to drive.

MGJohn

8,460 posts

69 months

[news] 
Tuesday 23rd October 2012 quote quote all
paulodivichio said:
MGJohn said:
Steady minor coolant loss is usually a sign of a wearing Water Pump, unless perished hose or other worn or badly fitted part the cause.

Check below and around the water pump for any tell tale signs of leaks, dried up stains or fresh wetness, even minor ones.

Overheating following coolant steady losses via a worn water pump is almost certainly the number one cause of damaged cylinder head gaskets on engines.

Once the water pump really gets worn and lets go very suddenly, coolant loss is total and speedy at Motorway speeds. That's when the damage can be severe from very sudden heat build up.
Hmmm... Well when I got it, I did a full service, including the cambelt and water pump. It actually seems worse on the shorter journeys I do, when I do a 300 mile journey its fine, when I do the 5 mile trip to work it starts using coolant confused I think it may be leaking from a join at the front of the engine block, where the pipe goes into it... but as of yet I haven't managed to properly track it down!
That suggests a leak which closes up when engine fully warmed. Even though the Temperature Gauge needle will reach 'normal' within a mile of cold start on all the K-Series in my family, no way is that engine warmed up, only the coolant at the sensor.

Any coolant hose ~ there are lots on cars ~ can harden and lose flexibility with age and engine heat particularly under the fasteners where clamped hard on a metal pipe. They can split there and allow coolant to escape.

The Inlet Manifold gasket can become hardened with age and many hot-cold heat cycles. They then leak a slight amount every time the engine is uses.

There's a gasket on the Coolant Elbow on the front of the cylinder head and that can also wear in time. I know of an instance where the Exhaust Manifold gasket was fitted the wrong way around on replacement so that the coolant elbow could not be fully seated allowing a little coolant to escape each time the car was run. It was bodged with lots of sealant which could not cope with normal coolant operating pressure. Guess what happened. Cylinder head "failure" due to subsequent overheating. Actually, the real failures here were the pro-outfit bodging the routine repair and servicing work fitting the Exhaust Manifold Gasket the wrong way around. Fitted correctly the Coolant Elbow would be flush and fully seated so no coolant loss problem!

Actually, these CHGs rarely actually 'fail', they are usually first damaged by some other problem and so cannot do their job.

All Radiators can and do deteriorate with age and mileage. Easy to check their condition but how many do? If it aint broke, why fix it scenario ... until .. Fortunately on these cars they are not expensive and easy to replace even for the DIYer with little experience. Pro outfits will supply and fit one for £200. I've done that on my son's car for the cost of a new Alloy Radiator (£30 delivered off ebay) and an hour leisurely DIY work.

With simple routine levels of maintenance, nothing special, these cars can be very reliable. Well all those in my family since the first purchased new in 1993 and others new and used since then are still going strong to this day.

It aint Rocket Science.

MGJohn

8,460 posts

69 months

[news] 
Tuesday 23rd October 2012 quote quote all
How about this for coincidence:~

A young friend of my son had his 1.4 Rover 25 coast to a standstill last night. Car showing 149,000 miles. My son drove out to the stranded car and on lifting the bonnet, noticed the earth strap to the slam panel had fractured and so was no longer earthing battery power to key engine management. Can happen on any twelve year old car showing that kind of mileage.

Cleaned up the earth cable and reconnected it as a temporary fix and the little car was soon on its way.

This is what the earth cable looks like in good condition. Check yours is secure and not about to snap off as happened with this Rover :~



There are similar earthing straps on many cars. BMW Bonnets have them and have been known to fracture too after years of bonnet opening and closing which can stress the cable at the clamp.

Cobnapint

1,252 posts

37 months

[news] 
Tuesday 23rd October 2012 quote quote all
Pentoman said:
My friends bought one of these from a scrap yard expecting a few months use out of it. It did them at least three years without going wrong. Drove a 25 not that long ago and it wasn't that bad to drive.
I bet it didn't have a full set of working rear lights though did it? I've never been behind one that has.

I'm sorry, but nobody will ever convince me that these things were anything other than dismal, ill conceived, poorly built, bastardised Hondas - that came with unreliability as a no cost option.

I've had a go in two in my lifetime, and while they weren't the worst or most dangerous cars I've ever driven (that accolade goes to the Triumph Herald), they were clearly at least two models (in terms of engineering, reliability and design advancement) behind everybody elses offerings.

The likes of Ford, Vauxhall, Volkswagen etc were all updating their model ranges and actually taking cars out of production that were already 'better' at the time the Rover 200 was announced.

This failure to keep up, along with even more ill conceived decisions by the 'exectutives' at Rover, like the City Rover, MG XPower SV and Rover Streetwise, lead to Rover, quite deservedly, becoming the laughing stock of the motoring world back in the early to mid 2000's.

This, as we all remember, left it with desolate showrooms and an unrecoverable sales portfolio. The executioner put us all out of our misery by finally releasing his blade in April 2005.

Thanks but no thanks.

MGJohn

8,460 posts

69 months

[news] 
Wednesday 24th October 2012 quote quote all
So despite the naysayers the mere mention of the name Rover always flushes out on this enthusiasts site, two little Rovers, one a sixteen year old 214 and the other a ten year old Rover 25, both passed MoTs today and yesterday for the total cost of the MoT test fee. Here's the 214. Not bad for a sixteen year old car :~



Here's my younger son's Rover 25 being tested that he's had for over two years now and has not missed a beat :~



With these older cars with close to 100,000 miles showing, there is always the possibility that they can fail on emissions, something few owners can check for themselves. No signs of a Red and all Greens came up immediately the emissions were tested :~



I did give both cars a healthy blast for a few miles to ensure the catalytic converters were fully warmed prior to arriving for my booked appointment. The tester being ready for the cars as soon as I arrived so the engine fully warmed as ready for the test. Being timely and punctual can help.

As a caring parent, it is good to drive the family's cars occasionally to ensure nothing needing attention. I was pleasantly surprised how well these old 1.4 K-Series engines still pulled.

LFB531

451 posts

44 months

[news] 
Thursday 25th October 2012 quote quote all
Dare I add another note of support for the little Rovers?

Over the past few years, I've had three 1.4 engined versions, all bought for the specific purposes of road rallying so they get used hard;

First one was a £56 ebay special, did the head gasket and never missed a beat after that, sold on to another rally user after 3 years.



Second one was a prepared ZR, done a number of the famous Lombard Endurance rallies but was totally standard mechanically, never missed a beat until I had a modest roll in it;



And the replacement, another ebay special and this one with a blown engine (someone had omitted an inlet manifold gasket!), total cost £400, put the engine in from the blue one, now competed in two hard rallies and not a murmur.



So IMHO, a top little motor and if maintained properly like all things, shouldn't let you down.

MGJohn

8,460 posts

69 months

[news] 
Thursday 25th October 2012 quote quote all
As a Rover and MG owner of around fifty years, dare I say that I do not believe you LFB531.... smile No I will not dare to do that, because I do believe you. In all those motoring years, both numerous Company cars as well as my own ones, I have NEVER had an unreliable one. Most had to work hard and many miles were completed without a problem.

During those years, the most I have ever had to spend to get any of my cars through the MoT was £150 on my MG Montego. Both the end sills in the rear wheel arches were corroded and being located near key suspension areas, that was a fail. The car completed a huge mileage and my sons and many of their school friends used it on our personal track to learn how to handle a reasonably powerful car long before they were old enough to have a driving licence. Here's my then school boy son enjoying himself in the car on our own off road circuit. A digital image of a 6 x 4 print hence poor quality but it serves the purpose :~



The next largest MoT bill was earlier this year on my 1.8 Rover 45 Connoisseur which needed both rear trailing arm suspension bushes renewed. They were on offer with Rimmer bros for £10 a pair ~ a fraction of their list price ~ and before I got around to fitting them myself, I collected some welding from a local specialist. Whilst there with my car, I casually mentioned it had just failed on those worn suspension bushes and asked how much would he charge to fit them. Forty quid right now whilst I waited... Not worth me getting my hands dirty for that .... Result.

Yes, terrible quality and reliability as my Boxster driving neighbour frequently castigated me for. Incessantly going on about German build quality and other stuff. Few days later, his son comes across explaining that Dad's Boxster had burnt out its engine on the nearby M5 hard shoulder. It cost more to repair than I paid for my MG ZS new! Later, Boxster Dad asked me how my then still new MG ZS was doing. I explained that my wife and two sons had just returned from touring the continent where my son casually let slip he cruised it well into three figures... that's mph not kph the rascal. He mentioned it never missed a beat. Know what Boxster Dad replied ....

Boxster Dad said:
.
Ah, that's those reliable Honda engines for you.
.
Any wonder this Nation is doing so bluddy well lately... rolleyes


.

LFB531

451 posts

44 months

[news] 
Thursday 25th October 2012 quote quote all
Good idea.....show pictures of them actually moving!


Mr2Mike

12,338 posts

141 months

[news] 
Monday 19th November 2012 quote quote all
LFB531 said:
Good idea.....show pictures of them actually moving!

I've noticed an increase in the number of MG ZR's being used on clubman tarmac rally stages in the last few years. There are some very quick ones as well.

MGJohn

8,460 posts

69 months

[news] 
Monday 19th November 2012 quote quote all
Mr2Mike said:
LFB531 said:
Good idea.....show pictures of them actually moving!

I've noticed an increase in the number of MG ZR's being used on clubman tarmac rally stages in the last few years. There are some very quick ones as well.
The bog-standard K-Series VVC version of the little MG ZR with 160ps available is very nippy straight out of the box. Now that all these cars are seven years old or older, they are no longer seen as "nice little earners" in the trade and so are available at price levels which make them exceptional value for the buyer.

LFB531

451 posts

44 months

[news] 
Monday 19th November 2012 quote quote all
Its the BRM (Pre ZR facelift) version that seems to be catching the eye of my road rally chums, think it came with a limited slip differential. Although only made in limited numbers, plenty to be seen these days with roll cages AND red leather, quite a combination!

MGJohn

8,460 posts

69 months

[news] 
Monday 19th November 2012 quote quote all
LFB531 said:
Its the BRM (Pre ZR facelift) version that seems to be catching the eye of my road rally chums, think it came with a limited slip differential. Although only made in limited numbers, plenty to be seen these days with roll cages AND red leather, quite a combination!
The TorSen Differential ( TorSen = Torque sensing not quite LSD ) fitted to most of the Rover petrol turbos can be fitted to many of the conventional differentials in PG1 gearboxes used in Rover and MG cars. One of the reasons many of these old cars are worth far more as 'spares' donors than as complete tidy cars. Sometimes considerably more.

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