RE: MG-TF returns to Longbridge
Discussion
andymadmak said:
3, The ZT / 75 is a VERY fine car indeed. It has superb driving dynamics and is renowned for its reliability and quality. FACT!
Andy
Did you hear about the prototype bodydshells for this car? They actually built the first batch without any holes in for the wiring looms. This just about sums up their design/manufacturing phylosophy. Slap-dash and shoddy. A large portion of the old MGR workforce are still making cars at Solihull. Are the cars anywhere near the top of the quality league. I don't think so. So much so that Ford chose the Jag factory at Halewood to make the Freelander 2.
The R75 may be good in it's first year or so, then things go south pretty quickly. It was the last chapter in 3 decades of very shit cars. IMHO, MGR was an embarrassment to the UK & car manufacturing in general. I'm glad they're finally gone, but I feel for all the workers caught up in it all. Let's see if the Chinese can do a better job of the MGF - let's face it, they can't do much worse than MGR!
fatboy b said:
. So much so that Ford chose the Jag factory at Halewood to make the Freelander 2.
What a load of complete tosh!
Halewood was actually chosen because the Solihull plant is too old and dose not lend itself at all well to installation of a new, modern production line. There is simply not enough space at Solihull to get it in without disturbing the existing lines for the Defender and Range Rover.
Goochie said:
fatboy b said:
. So much so that Ford chose the Jag factory at Halewood to make the Freelander 2.
What a load of complete tosh!
Halewood was actually chosen because the Solihull plant is too old and dose not lend itself at all well to installation of a new, modern production line. There is simply not enough space at Solihull to get it in without disturbing the existing lines for the Defender and Range Rover.
No. It was Ford's shot across LR's bows to get them to sort their act out.
fatboy b said:
Did you hear about the prototype bodydshells for this car? They actually built the first batch without any holes in for the wiring looms. This just about sums up their design/manufacturing phylosophy. Slap-dash and shoddy. ................... The R75 may be good in it's first year or so, then things go south pretty quickly.
Wiring holes on prototypes? Thats actually pretty standard practice when doing prototype shells. Wiring and pipe runs are frequently undecided at that time so the bulkheads are left blank.
75 only good for its first year? Well my 2001 MG ZTT 190 is coming up to 85k miles. It puts up with my 3 kids, big dog and thumping around the rocky topography of the Peak districts shoddy roads. Total faults? er none. Total rattles? er none. Total replacements? 2 brake lamp bulbs. Service intervals 15k miles.
From what I can gather my experience is in line with most other 75/zt owners out there. I seem to remember that a couple of years ago the zt came 4th in the JD Power survey.
Perhaps you should let some facts cloud your bias?
Andy
fatboy b said:
Goochie said:
fatboy b said:
. So much so that Ford chose the Jag factory at Halewood to make the Freelander 2.
What a load of complete tosh!
Halewood was actually chosen because the Solihull plant is too old and dose not lend itself at all well to installation of a new, modern production line. There is simply not enough space at Solihull to get it in without disturbing the existing lines for the Defender and Range Rover.
No. It was Ford's shot across LR's bows to get them to sort their act out.
And the source of this information is what?
andymadmak said:
fatboy b said:
Did you hear about the prototype bodydshells for this car? They actually built the first batch without any holes in for the wiring looms. This just about sums up their design/manufacturing phylosophy. Slap-dash and shoddy. ................... The R75 may be good in it's first year or so, then things go south pretty quickly.
Wiring holes on prototypes? Thats actually pretty standard practice when doing prototype shells. Wiring and pipe runs are frequently undecided at that time so the bulkheads are left blank.
75 only good for its first year? Well my 2001 MG ZTT 190 is coming up to 85k miles. It puts up with my 3 kids, big dog and thumping around the rocky topography of the Peak districts shoddy roads. Total faults? er none. Total rattles? er none. Total replacements? 2 brake lamp bulbs. Service intervals 15k miles.
From what I can gather my experience is in line with most other 75/zt owners out there. I seem to remember that a couple of years ago the zt came 4th in the JD Power survey.
Perhaps you should let some facts cloud your bias?
Andy
I may not be the average petrolhead but I took delivery of a (very well priced) 75 diesel the day they went bankrupt. Dealer reckoned it to be a BMW 4 series. 45,000 miles later, still a very good car. Not much has gone wrong and there is a local ex-dealer plus a big website to help if it does. My experience won't help the ex Rover workers on the dole, sadly.
fatboy b said:
andymadmak said:
3, The ZT / 75 is a VERY fine car indeed. It has superb driving dynamics and is renowned for its reliability and quality. FACT!
Andy
Did you hear about the prototype bodydshells for this car? They actually built the first batch without any holes in for the wiring looms. This just about sums up their design/manufacturing phylosophy. Slap-dash and shoddy. A large portion of the old MGR workforce are still making cars at Solihull. Are the cars anywhere near the top of the quality league. I don't think so. So much so that Ford chose the Jag factory at Halewood to make the Freelander 2.
The R75 may be good in it's first year or so, then things go south pretty quickly. It was the last chapter in 3 decades of very shit cars. IMHO, MGR was an embarrassment to the UK & car manufacturing in general. I'm glad they're finally gone, but I feel for all the workers caught up in it all. Let's see if the Chinese can do a better job of the MGF - let's face it, they can't do much worse than MGR!
What? Prototype 75s with no holes in? Well...firstly where did you hear this and secondly what relevance does it have?
Your attitude is pretty shameful. Rover 75 quality improved at Longbridge. BMW owned 75's did have niggles but everything was sorted out when back in British hands.
There's plenty of people with a wierd interest in slagging off Rover, making an issue of very unsignificant things, especially when they have no first hand knowledge of those things. Head gasket blah blah, no holes for wires on a prototype blah blah, badly engineered blah blah crap cars blah blah. Boring -go away.
Edited by KANEIT on Friday 2nd February 09:00
KANEIT said:
There's plenty of people with a wierd interest in slagging off Rover, making an issue of very unsignificant things, especially when they have no first hand knowledge of those things. Head gasket blah blah, no holes for wires on a prototype blah blah, badly engineered blah blah crap cars blah blah. Boring -go away.
Edited by KANEIT on Friday 2nd February 09:00
The problem is that you have the MGR management attitude inthat statement!
So many took your advice and did go away that MGR went bust.
Perhaps they should have listened to potential customers perceptions ( even if not reality) and taken action to dispell the myths and adress the reality.
odyssey2200 said:
KANEIT said:
There's plenty of people with a wierd interest in slagging off Rover, making an issue of very unsignificant things, especially when they have no first hand knowledge of those things. Head gasket blah blah, no holes for wires on a prototype blah blah, badly engineered blah blah crap cars blah blah. Boring -go away.
Edited by KANEIT on Friday 2nd February 09:00
The problem is that you have the MGR management attitude inthat statement!
So many took your advice and did go away that MGR went bust.
Perhaps they should have listened to potential customers perceptions ( even if not reality) and taken action to dispell the myths and adress the reality.
BMW hardly did a fantastic job did they?
I love hearing stories where we slag off the British managment but one of the most critical points in the 'Rovers' life, the Germans completly messed it up.
So who's fault is it?
BMW didn't mess up they got what they came for. Mini.
And off loaded the rest to the highest bidder.
This had to be done in such a way that they appeared to be trying so as to not upset us tax payers.
Kanett's attitude of protectionism in the face of all the hard facts is akin to burying your head in the sand in denial!
People did not want to buy a ROVER or MG so it went titS up!
If thay had built a better product at a reasonable price it would have sold and they would still be here today.
Telling people with real experiance of MGR products that he is bored of them complaining and to go away is the attitude that leads to lost customers.
Edited by odyssey2200 on Wednesday 7th February 19:15
Edited by odyssey2200 on Wednesday 7th February 19:19
odyssey2200 said:
So who's fault is it?
BMW didn't mess up they got what they came for. Mini.
And off loaded the rest to the highest bidder.
This had to be done in such a way that they appeared to be trying so as to not upset us tax payers.
Kanett's attitude of protectionism in the face of all the hard facts is akin to burying your head in the sand in denial!
People did not want to buy a ROVER or MG so it went titS up!
If thay had built a better product at a reasonable price it would have sold and they would still be here today.
Telling people with real experiance of MGR products that he is bored of them complaining and to go away is the attitude that leads to lost customers.
Oh now come on. Lets remember MG Rover never did badly in reliability surveys. They were consitantly middle ground with the 75/ZT usually come out as very high.
Now - the french cars. Built like cheese but they sell in the droves despite reliability.
Basically, the BMW fiasco bought back 'BL' stigma. Rover group had more or less shaked off the BL stigma that had occured. With strong reliable cars and shared engineering with Honda it was a win win situation. BMW came along. No new R3 replacement in sight. The 400 HHR was given a slight make over and the 'F' wasn't touched.
In the 5 years BMW owned Rover, only one car came out, the Rover 75. From the point BMW off-loaded Rover there was only one chance of being able to produce a new car - and that was with a partner. Sadly, for a different variety of reasons, that never happened.
red_rover said:
odyssey2200 said:
So who's fault is it?
BMW didn't mess up they got what they came for. Mini.
And off loaded the rest to the highest bidder.
This had to be done in such a way that they appeared to be trying so as to not upset us tax payers.
Kanett's attitude of protectionism in the face of all the hard facts is akin to burying your head in the sand in denial!
People did not want to buy a ROVER or MG so it went titS up!
If thay had built a better product at a reasonable price it would have sold and they would still be here today.
Telling people with real experiance of MGR products that he is bored of them complaining and to go away is the attitude that leads to lost customers.
Oh now come on. Lets remember MG Rover never did badly in reliability surveys. They were consitantly middle ground with the 75/ZT usually come out as very high.
Now - the french cars. Built like cheese but they sell in the droves despite reliability.
Basically, the BMW fiasco bought back 'BL' stigma. Rover group had more or less shaked off the BL stigma that had occured. With strong reliable cars and shared engineering with Honda it was a win win situation. BMW came along. No new R3 replacement in sight. The 400 HHR was given a slight make over and the 'F' wasn't touched.
In the 5 years BMW owned Rover, only one car came out, the Rover 75. From the point BMW off-loaded Rover there was only one chance of being able to produce a new car - and that was with a partner. Sadly, for a different variety of reasons, that never happened.
irrespective of a peartner the product was old , out of date, k seriaes had issues which may or have been eventually resolved but at what cost.
For what ever reasonthe cars had little appeal to the masses and failed to sell.
So far its noone fault.
BMW had long gone and the Pheonix 4 boughtthe company so there fore inherit responsibility for the company and its results. They were atthe wheel when it crashed.
So far I have been shot for suggesting a dismissive attitude is partly responsible, shot for sugesting the product was flawed and un appealing, so what was it?
While I would like to blame Tony BLiar....I can't pin this one on him directly. Shame!
Who we gonna blame?
KANEIT said:
There's plenty of people with a wierd interest in slagging off Rover, making an issue of very unsignificant things, especially when they have no first hand knowledge of those things. Head gasket blah blah, no holes for wires on a prototype blah blah, badly engineered blah blah crap cars blah blah. Boring -go away.
Rover didn't do themselves any favours with the Streetwise and I think there were some other howlers over the past 25 years that provide fuel for the blah-blah folk, but the 75 saloon/tourer represented exactly what the Rover brand aspired to. A well-engineered car, superb build quality, up there in terms of value for money and a stable platfrom for further development - coupe, long-wheel base etc. I've bought 3 75s (2 saloons and a tourer), the first was in fact one of the first 75s off the line, and all have been outstanding. I'm looking for a v8 saloon at the moment so I am still committed to the brand and have no problem in standing up to the blah blah crap about Rover (they are of course now even better value for money
). The strongest example of what Rover achieved with the 75 was when I was collected from the airport in Rome by one of our Italian consultants - you know the sort, year-round tan, tailored suit, designer shoes, expensive leather case on a wrist loop just big enough to carry a Montblanc rollerball, a pigskin Filofax and a B&O Serene phone - he had just taken delivery of his silver Rover 75. He was over the moon with it, thought it was so much better than the Alfas and Lancias, 6 years later he's still got it. The Rover 75 is already a classic in the spirit of the P5,P6,SD1 Gassing Station | Rover | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff