RE: Speed Cameras Watch As Accidents Increase

[911motorsport]

fluffnik said:

911motorsport said:

fluffnik said:

If the car in front slams on for any reason or none and you can't stop before it does you are too close.

Utter tosh! Or are you suggesting every time a car overtakes me I immediately brake so that I instantly have the correct distance between us???

If a car overtakes you then immediately slams on then you would hold no blame for failing to maintain separation, indeed you might well have great cause for complaint.

...but that is not the situation you described.

Then refer to my reply to Alex King!

[AlexKing]

911motorsport said:

Then refer to my reply to Alex King!

I think you're suffering from a bad case of revisionism here old chum.

In your original post you stated that you were "travelling behind an MPV at about 40mph". There's no indication there of a sudden overtake by the MPV - indeed there's a suggestion of the passage of some period of time in the word 'travelling'. That is, enough time for you to drop back to a safe distance before the bend you arrived at.

If your story had been "some halfwit in an MPV full of kids overtook me just before a bend and immediately slammed on the anchors when he saw the gatso around the corner", then I'm sure everyone here would have a bit more sympathy - but I don't think that's what happened, is it?

Ultimately, you've come on to an internet forum, posting your experiences to your peers in the hope of sympathy and vindication and they (along with your insurance company, I'd wager) have judged you to be in the wrong.

You're right that none of us were there, and you could be in the right and just not explained it very well, but the impression that you give is if someone blaming the speed camera for your poor driving. This doesn't help the anti-camera cause (that I subscribe to) one little bit - quite the opposite in fact.

If you want to help, I suggest you refrain from hitting reply right now, and consider if maybe some of us have a point, and that you could learn from the experience to become a better driver.

Alternatively, you could go on being defensive on this forum and drive the way you always have done - hey, it's your punctured lung!

[Camaro91]

If you were travelling at what you considered a safe distance, then came off the road and crashed into a tree when the car in front stopped, you considered wrong.

[911motorsport]

AlexKing said:

911motorsport said:

Then refer to my reply to Alex King!

I think you're suffering from a bad case of revisionism here old chum.

In your original post you stated that you were "travelling behind an MPV at about 40mph". There's no indication there of a sudden overtake by the MPV - indeed there's a suggestion of the passage of some period of time in the word 'travelling'. That is, enough time for you to drop back to a safe distance before the bend you arrived at.

If your story had been "some halfwit in an MPV full of kids overtook me just before a bend and immediately slammed on the anchors when he saw the gatso around the corner", then I'm sure everyone here would have a bit more sympathy - but I don't think that's what happened, is it?

Ultimately, you've come on to an internet forum, posting your experiences to your peers in the hope of sympathy and vindication and they (along with your insurance company, I'd wager) have judged you to be in the wrong.

You're right that none of us were there, and you could be in the right and just not explained it very well, but the impression that you give is if someone blaming the speed camera for your poor driving. This doesn't help the anti-camera cause (that I subscribe to) one little bit - quite the opposite in fact.

If you want to help, I suggest you refrain from hitting reply right now, and consider if maybe some of us have a point, and that you could learn from the experience to become a better driver.

Alternatively, you could go on being defensive on this forum and drive the way you always have done - hey, it's your punctured lung!

Condescending prat!

And it was both lungs.

I admit my original description of events could have been better. To make it clear; I was travelling along at approx 40 mph when I got overtaken by another driver who then spotted a hidden speed camera and instictively anchored on. I took avoiding action and drove in to a tree.

As I said; Had there been no speed camera there would have been no accident. FACT!

[Denorth]

... and there was a flying saucer shooting laser beams...

[MKR]

...and you performed a wonderful job of helping the camera that you disagree with, remain in that spot by having a bloody accident there! Ultimatfly justifying it.

I hope I'd be right in assuming you were't familiar with the area and therefore had no way of anticipating the MPV's reaction to the camera?!

I don't remember reading that the MPV overtook you, in your original post about it. So now a tt in an MPV full of kids overtook you on a bend and you're the moron that crashed as a result of it?

What advanced course did you take and pass? How long ago? Just so we can all stay well clear.

Cheers.

[rockymount]

Furyous said :

|

...I've never understood the argument about people watching their speedo being dangerous. How long does it take you to check your speed?! Half a second, maybe one second at the most. It's not hard to judge your speed while looking at the road, and you don't need to check your speed every five yards. It's such a feeble argument.

Yep I agree, but if you were to spend one second looking down at your speedo you’ll have travelled 44 feet (13.4 metres) at 30 mph and 73 feet (22.4 metres) at 50 mph or looking at it another way 1.6x or 2.7x the length of an iconic London Routemaster Double Decker Bus. If you add to this that the recognized perception time for an alert driver is about another 3/4 second (we’re not talking Michael Schumacher lighting reaction times here – although saying that, this made me chuckle http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1040035/F1... ) then you’re up in the 55ft to 132ft range before you even start braking ! I agree with some of the other posters that many drivers nowadays are hung up on what speed they’re travelling at rather than observing, anticipating and planning, so no wonder accidents happen (especially all these low-speed impacts on round-a-bouts). So I’d rather spend most of my time observing (e.g. looking out for rear brake lights – yes and I know that’s almost impossible with an Escort van in front of you with a 1 lumen difference between tail and brake lights!), anticipating (especially that black cat on the pavement who still thinks it’s got 9 lives left!) and planning (especially when I see Mr. or Mrs. Hesitant in front of me on a round-a-bout and a bldy big artic bearing down on me, behind !). Yes, I do occasionally ‘glimpse’ down at the speedo, but normally only in free-flowing traffic and then only to check that my speed matches those little red bordered white circle signs with black numbers in them (especially on a ½ mile stretch just approaching Tadley from Basingstoke where it goes 40, 30, 50, 30 – what’s that all about !!!)

[martin84]

Howdy all. This is my first post, ive had the odd look at the classifieds from time to time but never got round to joining what looks a happy forum.

Im not sure i have too much to add on the subject of speed cameras. It does annoy me that 'speed' is always the issue, like in the press release quoted in the original post. A belief that making everybody do 29mph will bring accidents to 0 is misguided, and if you do hit someone within the speed limit you could still do considerable damage. And doing 34 in a 30 and getting a ticket two weeks later and it justified because 'speed kills' where it evidently didnt is odd.

But on the other hand i have no major issues with speed cameras, the attitude of the enforcement lot and organisations like Brake annoys me but as speed cameras go, sat navs can tell you where they are, the speed is signposted, they're bright yellow etc, if you dont want them to get money from you then dont speed, quite simple really. Although i have to agree with the above that some roads change the speed limit so often it can get confusing. Ive been on roads where its 30 for a 60 yard stretch then 40 for 300 yards then 30 again etc, all with cameras on it.

[Mr_Dave]

Mr_Dave said:

Reminds me of a crash a couple of months ago just round the corner from me on the A338 in Bournemouth:

http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/localnews/8966337...

The speed camera van hides on the on-slip over a crest on a dual carriageway with a 50mph limit trying to catch out those coming over the blind crest on the dual carriageway. Its about 1/4 of a mile before the national speed limit sign and 1/4 of a mile past a static camera.

Tragic death no doubt in my mind caused by the presence of the camera. A car saw the camera and braked, the bike swerved to avoid and another car hit him, kocking him off and sending him skidding into the central reservation and it was all over. The skid marks were there for a month after. I didn't see the mobile camera until the start of this month again.....

Apparently Dorset police made £1mil last year through the speed awareness campaign. Did the poor biker a lot of good that.........

Well the speed camera was back in the same place on Monday, and it had sprouted 2 flashing yellow lights! Very easy to spot. Still everyone piled on the brakes to well below the speed limit.

Yesterday and this morning it was hiding on the other side of the carriageway with NO flashing lights to catch people coming the other way.

So flashing lights on the camera van on the side of the road where there was a fatal crash (see above), but not the other? Sounds like even the police think that the mobile speed camera had something to do with cause of the crash to me......

[fluffnik]

Mr_Dave said:

So flashing lights on the camera van on the side of the road where there was a fatal crash (see above), but not the other? Sounds like even the police think that the mobile speed camera had something to do with cause of the crash to me......

The important thing is that the public thinks of the SCPs as murdering cts and ceases to tolerate them...

[Vipers]

Mr_Dave said:

Mr_Dave said:

Reminds me of a crash a couple of months ago just round the corner from me on the A338 in Bournemouth:

http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/localnews/8966337...

The speed camera van hides on the on-slip over a crest on a dual carriageway with a 50mph limit trying to catch out those coming over the blind crest on the dual carriageway. Its about 1/4 of a mile before the national speed limit sign and 1/4 of a mile past a static camera.

Tragic death no doubt in my mind caused by the presence of the camera. A car saw the camera and braked, the bike swerved to avoid and another car hit him, kocking him off and sending him skidding into the central reservation and it was all over. The skid marks were there for a month after. I didn't see the mobile camera until the start of this month again.....

Apparently Dorset police made £1mil last year through the speed awareness campaign. Did the poor biker a lot of good that.........

Well the speed camera was back in the same place on Monday, and it had sprouted 2 flashing yellow lights! Very easy to spot. Still everyone piled on the brakes to well below the speed limit.

Which seems to incicate too many people driving in excess of posted limits, whether you think they are right or not, they are there, and we know the consequences of ignoring them. It also begs the question, was the bike too close to reduce his speed safely, the car in front could have braked for a number of reasons.

Either way, not wanting to enter a long drawn out debate, its a sad loss of a life nevertheless. My closing comment would be if you stick to the posted limits, does it increase your journey worth worrying about?

Edited by Vipers on Thursday 4th August 10:20

[TVRWannabee]

Mr_Dave] said:

Reminds me of a crash a couple of months ago just round the corner from me on the A338 in Bournemouth:

http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/localnews/8966337...

The speed camera van hides on the on-slip over a crest on a dual carriageway with a 50mph limit trying to catch out those coming over the blind crest on the dual carriageway. Its about 1/4 of a mile before the national speed limit sign and 1/4 of a mile past a static camera.

Tragic death no doubt in my mind caused by the presence of the camera. A car saw the camera and braked, the bike swerved to avoid and another car hit him, kocking him off and sending him skidding into the central reservation and it was all over. The skid marks were there for a month after. I didn't see the mobile camera until the start of this month again.....

Apparently Dorset police made £1mil last year through the speed awareness campaign. Did the poor biker a lot of good that.........

I think I know the spot - and I used to come up that slip road to join the dual carriageway.

This presents a new problem: so you come up a slip road to join a 50mph road. At the end of the slip road is a speed camera van, effectively shortening the run onto the road.

Added to the problem is the fact that every car coming along the dual carriageway is concentrating on their speed and will never see me.

That certainly helps the road safety.

There is one fixed camera I drive past regularly. This one is just before a very bad, unsighted junction on a hill summit so, on balance, it would seem to be a good place for it. However, before the camera was installed I used to slow down and allow any traffic on the junction to clear before I go there. I would allow any cars turning right to do so without the need for me to stop to let them go.

I have noticed that since the camera was operational, I am concentrating on my speed and always forget to observe what is going on around the junction.

Hence my point about cameras having nothing to do with road safety.

[Zod]

911motorsport said:

AlexKing said:

911motorsport said:

Five years ago I was travelling at about 40mph behind an MPV full of kids.

As we rounded a bend in the road the driver spotted a gatso and, despite not speeding, instinctively anchored on. Rather than risk hurting the children in the MPV I was forced to take avoidance action and ploughed in to a tree.

I broke my kneck in three places and puntured both my lungs.

If that Gatso had not been there the accident would not have happened.

Sorry, but if this is the case then you were too damn close to the car in front. Anything could have been round that bend - not just a Gatso.

I hate speed cameras (note - not safety cameras; they're not measuring how many safetys per hour I'm doing) as much as the next man, but there does also seem to be an element of selective quoting of figures in the story and febrile ranting on this thread.

Don't get me wrong - I would much rather every speed camera in the land were binned and we got on with training drivers better instead, but if anti-camera people seize on dubious or incomplete evidence to "prove" that the cameras are bad, then we're just as bad as the pro-camera lobby who have long done the same to "prove" that they're good.

Being an advanced driver (and a seasoned racing driver) I was maintaining a safe distance for the speed and traffic conditions that prevailed. The bend was a gentle one, in a wide road which afforded a long view ahead (of a perfectly clear road).

The only 'random' hazard that was NOT in view was the Gatso. This was because it was set a long way away from the verge and only became apparent once you were more or less on top of it. In my opinion it was an accident that had been engineered into the section of road by fkwits who, if I had died in that accident, I would be suing for manslaughter!

Edited by 911motorsport on Tuesday 26th July 14:34

Edited by 911motorsport on Tuesday 26th July 14:35

You were not driving to the limit point or you would have been able to stop.

Racing driver?

But of course, none of this ever happened, so the whole debate is worthless.

Edited by Zod on Thursday 4th August 12:41

[Garlick]

I wish I had a life as varied as 911ms. An awful lot has happened to him over the years and he really does like to share it on PH too.

[Mr_Dave]

Vipers said:

Which seems to incicate too many people driving in excess of posted limits, whether you think they are right or not, they are there, and we know the consequences of ignoring them. It also begs the question, was the bike too close to reduce his speed safely, the car in front could have braked for a number of reasons.

Either way, not wanting to enter a long drawn out debate, its a sad loss of a life nevertheless. My closing comment would be if you stick to the posted limits, does it increase your journey worth worrying about?






[/footnote]

Thats the daft thing, I saw the speed camera and my first reaction was to brake (well we do don't we) then I glanced down to check the speed, I'd slowed from 50 (55 absolute tops) to 45mph....

Fixed camera's, easy to spot and take extra care if its a blind junction, accident blackspot etc. Something you're able to plan ahead for and take into account. Lets you keep your eyes on other road users that are often hard to predict!

Mobile camera's, tax collecting! I once got done (only ticket I've ever had) for doing 34 in a 30 limit through a deserted industrial estate on a Sunday lunchtime.... Brilliant.

On the way home last night, there was a Pug 306 missing a wheel and a big dent in the barrier at the same spot as the motorbike accident. Wonder if the speed camera was there or not? Either way, its not causing that bit of road to be any safer!

Anyway, time for the pub!
Dave

[911motorsport]

Garlick said:

I wish I had a life as varied as 911ms. An awful lot has happened to him over the years and he really does like to share it on PH too.

[Zod]

911motorsport said:

Garlick said:

I wish I had a life as varied as 911ms. An awful lot has happened to him over the years and he really does like to share it on PH too.

Living the dream.....

[911motorsport]

Zod said:

911motorsport said:

Garlick said:

I wish I had a life as varied as 911ms. An awful lot has happened to him over the years and he really does like to share it on PH too.

Living the dream.....

Edited by 911motorsport on Friday 5th August 11:55

[cotswoldlad]

The camera on the A439 Stratford upon Avon - Warwick road near Stratford garden centre is permanently set AWAY from the accident black spot cross roads (which has signs that flash slow down at speeds above 40mph) on a 50mph restricted road, how clever is that.

[Mr_Dave]

Well its official! Speed camera causes death:

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/districts/bo...