RE: Biofuel timebomb
Discussion
Caractacus said:
Chill out, man.
Who is saying it will, without any shadow of a doubt, be sold as a like for like replacement?
They've not done that in Europe, have they? Nope, didn't think so. So why would they do it here? just to piss you off, perhaps?
Like it or not, an increase of bio is on the way and there's nowt you can do about it. It will be labeled correctly, as there are laws that prevent companies from mis-selling goods, no? Yes, I'm sure there are companies that ignore certain laws, however the risk would be too great in this situation.
Cheers,
C.
Try reading the article at the beginning of the thread perhaps?Who is saying it will, without any shadow of a doubt, be sold as a like for like replacement?
They've not done that in Europe, have they? Nope, didn't think so. So why would they do it here? just to piss you off, perhaps?
Like it or not, an increase of bio is on the way and there's nowt you can do about it. It will be labeled correctly, as there are laws that prevent companies from mis-selling goods, no? Yes, I'm sure there are companies that ignore certain laws, however the risk would be too great in this situation.
Cheers,
C.
article said:
To marry-up with the changes, the Department for Transport is currently considering downgrading the wording on biofuels so that only that with a greater than 10 per cent mix will have to be labelled with the words "This fuel contains more than 10 per cent biofuel."
tank slapper said:
Caractacus said:
Chill out, man.
Who is saying it will, without any shadow of a doubt, be sold as a like for like replacement?
They've not done that in Europe, have they? Nope, didn't think so. So why would they do it here? just to piss you off, perhaps?
Like it or not, an increase of bio is on the way and there's nowt you can do about it. It will be labeled correctly, as there are laws that prevent companies from mis-selling goods, no? Yes, I'm sure there are companies that ignore certain laws, however the risk would be too great in this situation.
Cheers,
C.
Try reading the article at the beginning of the thread perhaps?Who is saying it will, without any shadow of a doubt, be sold as a like for like replacement?
They've not done that in Europe, have they? Nope, didn't think so. So why would they do it here? just to piss you off, perhaps?
Like it or not, an increase of bio is on the way and there's nowt you can do about it. It will be labeled correctly, as there are laws that prevent companies from mis-selling goods, no? Yes, I'm sure there are companies that ignore certain laws, however the risk would be too great in this situation.
Cheers,
C.
article said:
To marry-up with the changes, the Department for Transport is currently considering downgrading the wording on biofuels so that only that with a greater than 10 per cent mix will have to be labelled with the words "This fuel contains more than 10 per cent biofuel."
Try thinking outside of the box, perhaps?
All of this b
hing about what will and what won't run on it.
Go to Brazil, they've been running on Gasohol (10% ethanol 90% gasoline) for many many many years. Their world hasn't ended!
And it's strange how manufacturers that say "their older cars won't run on it" build cars for the Brazilian market that have done for years!!
A bit like a Vauxhall Vivaro (with a Renault engine in it) cannot under any circumstances be run on BioDiesel, yet a Renault Traffic is quite happy. Made in the same factory with different badges! (And the Nissan Primastar is also no biofuel either!)
hing about what will and what won't run on it. Go to Brazil, they've been running on Gasohol (10% ethanol 90% gasoline) for many many many years. Their world hasn't ended!
And it's strange how manufacturers that say "their older cars won't run on it" build cars for the Brazilian market that have done for years!!
A bit like a Vauxhall Vivaro (with a Renault engine in it) cannot under any circumstances be run on BioDiesel, yet a Renault Traffic is quite happy. Made in the same factory with different badges! (And the Nissan Primastar is also no biofuel either!)
thunderbelmont said:
All of this bhing about what will and what won't run on it.
Go to Brazil, they've been running on Gasohol (10% ethanol 90% gasoline) for many many many years. Their world hasn't ended!
And it's strange how manufacturers that say "their older cars won't run on it" build cars for the Brazilian market that have done for years!!
A bit like a Vauxhall Vivaro (with a Renault engine in it) cannot under any circumstances be run on BioDiesel, yet a Renault Traffic is quite happy. Made in the same factory with different badges! (And the Nissan Primastar is also no biofuel either!)
1) I don't live in Brazil hing about what will and what won't run on it. Go to Brazil, they've been running on Gasohol (10% ethanol 90% gasoline) for many many many years. Their world hasn't ended!
And it's strange how manufacturers that say "their older cars won't run on it" build cars for the Brazilian market that have done for years!!
A bit like a Vauxhall Vivaro (with a Renault engine in it) cannot under any circumstances be run on BioDiesel, yet a Renault Traffic is quite happy. Made in the same factory with different badges! (And the Nissan Primastar is also no biofuel either!)
2) There aren't many Healey 3000s or DB2/4 in Brazil
Next...
Seems to be people saying not to worry as the cars will work, look at Brazil, etc, etc. But isn't the problem about what happens after extended use. Yes the cars will run but damage to parts of the fuel system, engine will happen much faster.
Plus whenever I see cars in Brazil on TV they don't exactly look well looked after. Could be wrong on that one though admittedly.
Plus whenever I see cars in Brazil on TV they don't exactly look well looked after. Could be wrong on that one though admittedly.
Road Pest said:
Seems to be people saying not to worry as the cars will work, look at Brazil, etc, etc. But isn't the problem about what happens after extended use. Yes the cars will run but damage to parts of the fuel system, engine will happen much faster.
Plus whenever I see cars in Brazil on TV they don't exactly look well looked after. Could be wrong on that one though admittedly.
I worked on BP's Biofuel trading system over the last two years and I can tell you that BP has traded Biofuels for years across the globe. E10 is another pump so you don't have to use it. Some Biofuels are more readily available than Crude and have other benefits but are still way off replacing Crude and the RED directives still aren't baked (legislation has been changing continuously for years). So it's not a time bomb... Plus whenever I see cars in Brazil on TV they don't exactly look well looked after. Could be wrong on that one though admittedly.
SonnyM said:
I worked on BP's Biofuel trading system over the last two years and I can tell you that BP has traded Biofuels for years across the globe. E10 is another pump so you don't have to use it. Some Biofuels are more readily available than Crude and have other benefits but are still way off replacing Crude and the RED directives still aren't baked (legislation has been changing continuously for years). So it's not a time bomb...
So how come so many Ducatis (and other Italian bikes) have been having problems with plastic fuel tanks swelling up in the US? These bikers don't choose to use the high ethanol fuel, they have no choice as it's present in the regular unleaded.I posted a while ago about this, but it seemed no one knew bugger all about it then.
It's true that many older car will not be effected that adversely by the addition of another 5% ethanol, but the list of vehicles I suspect is by no means conclusive, and some cars, even those regarded as safe, may well have long term problems further down the line. Sadly, the full implications for the increase of ethanol won't be apparant for some cars until it's too late, and the owner is left with a engine replacement bill or replacement of injectors and other fuel line componants.
At the FBHVC AGM in November, they showed a rod and piston that had literally been eaten alive by the eothanol. Granted, this was I gather from a classic performance car that was doing le mans or something similar (I only read the report, wasn't actually there)
Oh, and the results of the tests they are having done won't be available for a while. Their first batch of tests had to be abandoned because samples became contaminated or something.
So as some are saying, I wouldn't worry too much. No point cos it's gonna happen, so sit back and relax.
It's true that many older car will not be effected that adversely by the addition of another 5% ethanol, but the list of vehicles I suspect is by no means conclusive, and some cars, even those regarded as safe, may well have long term problems further down the line. Sadly, the full implications for the increase of ethanol won't be apparant for some cars until it's too late, and the owner is left with a engine replacement bill or replacement of injectors and other fuel line componants.
At the FBHVC AGM in November, they showed a rod and piston that had literally been eaten alive by the eothanol. Granted, this was I gather from a classic performance car that was doing le mans or something similar (I only read the report, wasn't actually there)
Oh, and the results of the tests they are having done won't be available for a while. Their first batch of tests had to be abandoned because samples became contaminated or something.
So as some are saying, I wouldn't worry too much. No point cos it's gonna happen, so sit back and relax.
RedAlfa said:
Can you remove the ethanol from E10 relatively easily? The EU and its debt-ridden eco bullst can go to hell!
Edit: One of my cars is OK on E10, but the other is not
I'd imagine that you could pour in water, shake it up to disolve the ethanol and then blled off to leave the remainder. Don't know if this would extract other things than just the ethanol though, so probably not ideal anyway, regardless of logistics t can go to hell!Edit: One of my cars is OK on E10, but the other is not
Edited by RedAlfa on Sunday 15th January 17:27
DonkeyApple said:
I'd imagine that you could pour in water, shake it up to disolve the ethanol and then blled off to leave the remainder. Don't know if this would extract other things than just the ethanol though, so probably not ideal anyway, regardless of logistics
But wouldn't the petrol boil ata lower temperature than the etahnol (noow disolved in water) so you'd actually be disolving the ethanol and then distilling the spirit? 
RichB said:
DonkeyApple said:
I'd imagine that you could pour in water, shake it up to disolve the ethanol and then blled off to leave the remainder. Don't know if this would extract other things than just the ethanol though, so probably not ideal anyway, regardless of logistics
But wouldn't the petrol boil ata lower temperature than the etahnol (noow disolved in water) so you'd actually be disolving the ethanol and then distilling the spirit? RichB said:
bosscerbera said:
All you have to do is add a small amount of water, give it a shake and then let it settle - the 'ethanol water' will drop out and can be drained off.
Ah yes, of course. So what you would need would be a drain cock at the bottom of your tank You'd set up a business at Tescos where you sold someone who had filled up a litre of mineral water, they pour it into their tank, your gang of Poles would then shake the car and then suck out the ethanol by straw. Everyone's a winner. You'd need to replace your Poles after every few dozen cars but that shouldn't be an issue.
I filled up our '51' plate e46 320i with E10 in France. The car was running like clockwork, in fantastic condition, 91k miles on the clock, and fresh from an Inspection II service. Totally problem-free in two years of ownership. One fill-up. As I did it, I had this 'hmm... I idunno if I trust this stuff' thought, and went back to regular 95. Approximately 1500 miles later she started making a tapping noise from the engine which got louder and louder until the car went into Limp mode. No oil. From then until we eventually got rid, she was drinking somewhere in the region of a litre of oil every 100 miles or so with no clue or indication as to why. Being cosmetically perfect and very clean, our garage bought it from us to fix up and as a loaner, stripped the engine to try and locate the problem as there were no fault codes or anything showing - turns out all the seals were totally destroyed. The pump stated "suitable for all cars 2000 and later" - I double-checked before filling. Of course, I have no way of proving it was the E10 that did this but considering the otherwise mint and problem-free nature of the car it seems an awfully strange coincidence
vsonix said:
I filled up our '51' plate e46 320i with E10 in France. The car was running like clockwork, in fantastic condition, 91k miles on the clock, and fresh from an Inspection II service. Totally problem-free in two years of ownership. One fill-up. As I did it, I had this 'hmm... I idunno if I trust this stuff' thought, and went back to regular 95. Approximately 1500 miles later she started making a tapping noise from the engine which got louder and louder until the car went into Limp mode. No oil. From then until we eventually got rid, she was drinking somewhere in the region of a litre of oil every 100 miles or so with no clue or indication as to why. Being cosmetically perfect and very clean, our garage bought it from us to fix up and as a loaner, stripped the engine to try and locate the problem as there were no fault codes or anything showing - turns out all the seals were totally destroyed. The pump stated "suitable for all cars 2000 and later" - I double-checked before filling. Of course, I have no way of proving it was the E10 that did this but considering the otherwise mint and problem-free nature of the car it seems an awfully strange coincidence
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