RE: Biofuel timebomb

Author
Discussion

Tib

458 posts

180 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
Look on the bright side: At least it will stop the answer to all of the 'What car should I get next?' threads on PH being answered with 'MX-5'.

nicklonguk

196 posts

186 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
quotequote all
All crops are grown for fuel - be it for humans, animals (for further "refinement") or for vehicles.

Surely this is just reassessing the focus of our resources to produce more of what we need - the ratio of vehicles to people is increasing so the ratio of fuel : food required is also increasing.

And whilst it's easy to blame the EU for all this, bear in mind that North and South America have been using ethanol mixtures for years.

For me, the longer it's possible to run internal-combustion-engined vehicles, the better - this is just one of the ways to do so.

Richyvrlimited

1,826 posts

164 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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The article is plain wrong in respect to MX5's. they won't suffer from perished seals etc. and will cope absolutely fine with E10.

Hell there's guys in the states running E85 with no changes to the fuel system other than larger injectors to cope with the massively reduced calorific content of the fuel.

EDIT: In fact it's a pretty sensationalist article in general and rather disappointing to have come from PistonHeads

Edited by Richyvrlimited on Tuesday 20th December 10:17

PaulMoor

3,209 posts

164 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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"Old" cars? a 2006 car is hardly old.

This is just stupid. It means my 03 bike (not that old) and 99 car (that is a shed, so what ever) will be F**ked. This is not good at all. I just hope Shell (my garage of choice, as it is on the way to work) dose not go ahead with this.

Edited by PaulMoor on Tuesday 20th December 10:30

Rawwr

22,722 posts

235 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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Guess I won't bother buying a Fireblade in the new year, then.

gareth_r

5,742 posts

238 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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Already an issue with plastic motorcycle tanks

http://ashonbikes.com/content/ducati-facing-us-law...

robsco

7,838 posts

177 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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Interested to see how this will affect TVRs?

Agent Orange

2,194 posts

247 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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I can't help but be reminded of my favourite book from my childhood. A book that had a massive impact on me and one that I read again and again and again.

Wheelie in the Stars by Nicholas Fisk 1976

"Life as cargostrippers on Terramere 3 was boring and ugly. Even so, it seemed crazy for Noll and Niven to dream about driving their beautiful smuggled in motorbike, Wheelie. Machines that ran on petrol were banned but Noll and Niven would not give up."


DaveH23

3,236 posts

171 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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Correct me if im wrong but this isn't going to be a complete change over but a gradual intro of this new fuel so we will still be able power our older stuff.

grosserbaby

142 posts

169 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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There are additives Millers have 3 different ones depending on what you want to do, I havce just bought some for my Rover SD1 Vitesse just in case.

http://www.millersoils.net/1_Millers_frame_CLASSIC...

Ali_T

3,379 posts

258 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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It's only going to worsen. The US has had 10% for a while now and are moving to 15% this year.

Richyvrlimited

1,826 posts

164 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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Ali_T said:
It's only going to worsen. The US has had 10% for a while now and are moving to 15% this year.
And if you read the US car forums you'll notice they don't really have any issues.

Again it's sensationalist nonsense.

varsas

4,014 posts

203 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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drewbagz said:
Rant over.... anyone have any idea how this would affect an E46 M3?
There is a quote from BMW in the article which covers your car.

Foggy748

318 posts

161 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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Why did we ever become part of the EU? What a load of BS!!

otolith

56,227 posts

205 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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T16OLE said:
JudgeMental said:
Oh dear lotus
Suddenly very relieved I bought a Toyota engined Elise and not a Rover engined one.

edit: looking at that, Rover engined Elises shouldn't be run on E5 - which is what we've already been getting for some time.

Edited by otolith on Tuesday 20th December 11:01

peter450

1,650 posts

234 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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otolith said:
Suddenly very relieved I bought a Toyota engined Elise and not a Rover engined one.
I think i need to swap my Excel for a V8 Esprit ASAP!

louismchuge

1,628 posts

185 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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tits

burriana

16,556 posts

255 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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Oh, surprisingly Ferrari does not seem to be on the list. That'll be mine stuffed then!

Pain in the @ss. I normally fill mine up on bog standard unleaded. Looks like I will have to pay through the teeth for the super dooper V.Power type stuff frown

I also quite frequently fill up at Sainsbury's but, having read the article I might stop that!

Can we just leave the EU please? I have yet to see any real benefits since we joined, apart from it's a bit quicker to get into France on the way to Le mans.

bosscerbera

8,188 posts

244 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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Richyvrlimited said:
The article is plain wrong in respect to MX5's. they won't suffer from perished seals etc. and will cope absolutely fine with E10.

Hell there's guys in the states running E85 with no changes to the fuel system other than larger injectors to cope with the massively reduced calorific content of the fuel.
That's a bold statement.

Gasket/seal manufacturers are unable to categorically state that ANY of their rubber/nitrile materials are truly biofuel-resistant. Lots of previously fuel-grade products now carry the codicil "not for biofuels".

The ethanol component is made from a variety of sources, not only new crops but also waste materials. Aside from the fossil petrol component and the variable-origin biofuel component, there is the 'additive pack' - the unique bit that makes fuel 'super', 'ultimate', 'excellent' etc. - and chemical stabilisers. Overall, this makes biofuel resistance something of a challenge.

As well as being corrosive, ethanol is hygroscopic. Water absorption is familiar to diesel/gasoil/marine/kerosene users but gasoline was virtually hydrophobic. Not anymore. The specific gravity of ethanol is about the same as gasoline but when ethanol starts to absorb water, the [heavier] ethanol-loaded water falls to the tank bottom (aka phase separation). That's water in your petrol, which will lead to tank corrosion.

The higher the % of bioethanol, the more water it will grab from humidity/condensation. A little bit of water dissolved in your petrol won't do any harm - 10 gallons of fuel can hold about a quarter of a pint of water in suspension. But the moment the water content gets too high, that quarter pint drops to the tank bottom. A bit of rust may be the least of your concerns. A shot of ethanol-water picked up from tank bottom is a super-lean fuel - it can detonate the engine. And, for the bikers, ethanol-water in a 2-stroke motor starves the engine of lubrication.

Keep fuel in your tank for as short a time as possible. Tip into into a big V8.


Road Pest

3,123 posts

199 months

Tuesday 20th December 2011
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MR2 prices up, Pug 205 down. Win some, you lose some. Was thinking the pug could benefit from a new engine at some point anyway.