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Zerotonine

861 posts

57 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
Mine was the facelift. And I meant when Vauxhall disappear, I will not mourn it.

Dangermouse58

81 posts

23 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
I can see no good reason to buy any modern vauxhall. There are so many better cars out there for similar/less money with better performance and image.

Good riddance I say.

wolf1

2,616 posts

133 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th August 2012 quote quote all
Dangermouse58 said:
I can see no good reason to buy any modern vauxhall. There are so many better cars out there for similar/less money with better performance and image.

Good riddance I say.
2800 out of work and possibliy on the dole not to mention the knock on effect of suppliers going to the wall or having to make their own redundancies if they lose a large contract etc.

Prat!

jamesedwards

88 posts

24 months

[news] 
Thursday 9th August 2012 quote quote all
wolf1 said:
Dangermouse58 said:
I can see no good reason to buy any modern vauxhall. There are so many better cars out there for similar/less money with better performance and image.

Good riddance I say.
2800 out of work and possibliy on the dole not to mention the knock on effect of suppliers going to the wall or having to make their own redundancies if they lose a large contract etc.

Prat!
+1 to this ^

Vince70

1,758 posts

77 months

[news] 
Thursday 9th August 2012 quote quote all
jamesedwards said:
wolf1 said:
Dangermouse58 said:
I can see no good reason to buy any modern vauxhall. There are so many better cars out there for similar/less money with better performance and image.

Good riddance I say.
2800 out of work and possibliy on the dole not to mention the knock on effect of suppliers going to the wall or having to make their own redundancies if they lose a large contract etc.

Prat!
+1 to this ^
+2
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DanBMW

161 posts

67 months

[news] 
Monday 13th August 2012 quote quote all
cymtriks said:
The power of marketing.

See my post above!
Surely you cant be saying that you've sat in a VX and sat in a BMW/AUDI/Merc and thought theres no difference in the quality at all.

iSore

913 posts

27 months

[news] 
Monday 13th August 2012 quote quote all
No difference at all between the interior quality of an Insignia and a 3 Series / Passat. All three are made in Germany and I daresay one company makes all the interior trim, dashboards for GM, BMW and VAG. All three cars probably cost around the same to make full stop.

yuha_2000

9 posts

118 months

[news] 
Thursday 16th August 2012 quote quote all
are u guys for real??!?!?!

GM are german euro boxes same as VAG

GM have the best diesel tech designed with fiat powertrain

Clarkson recently said they are the only manufacturer with no ugly cars on the forecourt

they employ 1000's in the uk where they still manufacture

Or are you all Apple branding VAG loyalists, sweared into high margin products and being ripped off?!

find me a better spec german car for the cash and i will back down, the insignia 2.0 cdti 160 BHP

odyssey2200

18,650 posts

92 months

[news] 
Thursday 16th August 2012 quote quote all
yuha_2000 said:
are u guys for real??!?!?!

GM are german euro boxes same as VAG

GM have the best diesel tech designed with fiat powertrain

Clarkson recently said they are the only manufacturer with no ugly cars on the forecourt

they employ 1000's in the uk where they still manufacture

Or are you all Apple branding VAG loyalists, sweared into high margin products and being ripped off?!

find me a better spec german car for the cash and i will back down, the insignia 2.0 cdti 160 BHP
The fact remains that GM Europe lost over 700 million last year when it was supposed to brake even.
regardless of the products the company is out of control, has massive overheads and a management that just carries on regardless until pushen and then makes a few token savings.

StealthSteve

147 posts

38 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
iSore said:
I daresay one company makes all the interior trim, dashboards for GM, BMW and VAG.
This probably isn't far from the truth.

McKechnie (sp?) near me do many plastics for many places, alot include door panels and trim bits for vehicle Manufacturers.

I know LandRover bits are made for for sure, my mate there has pressed a few hundred.

Johnboy Mac

2,666 posts

61 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Haven't driven a new Vauxhall/Opel in exactly twelve years, not because I was unable to, just that I simply had no interest in doing so. On the other hand I've driven as many new Fords as possible. What the real world differences between those brands is I honestly don't know but given the choice I would take the Ford even if it cost more.

The funny thing is back in the 60's,70's & 80's an Opel was a better car, there was no contest imo between then & Ford. I reckon, the arrival of the Focus (the Mk1 Mondeo, didn't do any harm either) was Ford's major turning point putting clear water between them & Vauxhall/Opel. GM, badly need a Focus moment & capitalise on it too. Hopefully for Vauxhall employees it's not too late because there doesn't seem to be any future playing second fiddle to Ford in the European market, especially in a market with production over capacity.



Edited by Johnboy Mac on Wednesday 22 August 21:56

Redlake27

1,890 posts

127 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
DanBMW said:
Surely you cant be saying that you've sat in a VX and sat in a BMW/AUDI/Merc and thought theres no difference in the quality at all.
Having driven an Insignia Elegance v an Audi A4SE v a Merc C220SE this year, I think they are very, very comparable. In fact, the Insignia was far better equipped with similar quality.It was certainly a less drab place to sit. Vauxhall/Opel quality has usually been pretty good, but the dynamics were lacklustre on most 90s/00s cars. The Insignia (like the 508, C5 and Mondeo) is a good example of a very good car - but from a class no-one wants anymore.

Clivey

2,969 posts

87 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
Johnboy Mac said:
Haven't driven a new Vauxhall/Opel in exactly twelve years, not because I was unable to, just that I simply had no interest in doing so. On the other hand I've drive as many new Fords as possible. What the real world differences between those brands is I honestly don't know but given the choice I would take the Ford even if it cost more.
Why would you choose a Ford without even considering / looking at the alternatives? I'm pretty open-minded when it comes to the badge on the bonnet (I wouldn't mind a Ford or Vauxhall). - The latest Vauxhalls (Astra, Insignia) have been widely reported to be good cars with Car Magazine saying the Astra drives better than the Golf and Evo even gave the standard 1.6 Turbo a 4 star rating, specifically stating that it has "Focus rivalling dynamics".

In fact, in the last video I saw (Evo track battle), the new Astra VXR easily outperformed the new Focus ST around Bedford Autodrome - the Astra could use it's power due to the LSD whereas the Focus just spun it away.

Astra VXR vs Focus ST Track Battle

Johnboy Mac said:
The funny thing is back in the 60's,70's & 80's an Opel was a better car, there was no contest imo between then & Ford. I reckon, the arrival of the Focus (the Mk1 Mondeo, didn't do any harm either) was Ford's major turning point putting clear water between them & Vauxhall/Opel. GM, badly need a Focus moment & capitalise on it too. Hopefully for Vauxhall employees it's not too late because there doesn't seem to be any future playing second fiddle to Ford in the European market, especially in a market with production over capacity.
I agree that Opel / Vauxhall need a "Focus moment" but TBH striking styling aside, I didn't (and still don't) see what the fuss over the Focus is all about. I know the original was a massive step change from the Escort but that wasn't exactly difficult - a wheelbarrow has a better chassis...and more charisma too.

I had a 2006 Mk2 Focus as a courtesy car for a couple of weeks and it felt like a van. - It only had 1,500 miles on it but it rattled like a clapped-out old bus. Sure, it had plenty of grip but I can honestly say that overall it handled no better than my Citroen C4 with a worse ride despite the smaller wheels. The interior felt very cheap and the steering wheel had a greasy feel to it that left your hands feeling sticky after driving. It's only redeeming features were the sheer size (plenty of room all round) and the outright cornering grip (where did the styling from the original car go?). Compared to that, my Astra - I briefly owned a Mk5 - felt like a luxury car.

The latest Focus has a better interior...however to get to it, you first have to approach it from outside and that's when the utterly horrific exterior puts me right off (the ST is the worst of the lot). I don't understand it when other cars in their range (Fiesta, Mondeo) look much better. Actually, looking at the current large family cars from Ford and Vauxhall (Insignia and Mondeo), I don't think they've ever looked better. Given the prices, I'd rather have a top-spec example of either than a poverty spec Audi A4.

I think that what I'm trying to get around to saying is that I don't understand why people have a problem with Vauxhall and what they've done that's so wrong. Their current range is very competitive and most models look fantastic - especially the sportier ones which are at least as good as the competition.

iSore

913 posts

27 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
Exactly. If it were a choice between the Astra and the Golf, I'd choose the Golf merely because it holds its value better. As cars, they're absolutely equal and I really like the Astra - a very good all rounder.
The Focus has lost it's magic really. The original was a big leap forward over the Astra/Golf etc but Ford didn't follow it up with anything better. The current one may as well be a Kia.

Johnboy Mac

2,666 posts

61 months

[news] 
Friday 24th August 2012 quote quote all
Clivey said:
Johnboy Mac said:
Haven't driven a new Vauxhall/Opel in exactly twelve years, not because I was unable to, just that I simply had no interest in doing so. On the other hand I've drive as many new Fords as possible. What the real world differences between those brands is I honestly don't know but given the choice I would take the Ford even if it cost more.
Why would you choose a Ford without even considering / looking at the alternatives? I'm pretty open-minded when it comes to the badge on the bonnet (I wouldn't mind a Ford or Vauxhall). - The latest Vauxhalls (Astra, Insignia) have been widely reported to be good cars with Car Magazine saying the Astra drives better than the Golf and Evo even gave the standard 1.6 Turbo a 4 star rating, specifically stating that it has "Focus rivalling dynamics".

In fact, in the last video I saw (Evo track battle), the new Astra VXR easily outperformed the new Focus ST around Bedford Autodrome - the Astra could use it's power due to the LSD whereas the Focus just spun it away.

Astra VXR vs Focus ST Track Battle

Johnboy Mac said:
The funny thing is back in the 60's,70's & 80's an Opel was a better car, there was no contest imo between then & Ford. I reckon, the arrival of the Focus (the Mk1 Mondeo, didn't do any harm either) was Ford's major turning point putting clear water between them & Vauxhall/Opel. GM, badly need a Focus moment & capitalise on it too. Hopefully for Vauxhall employees it's not too late because there doesn't seem to be any future playing second fiddle to Ford in the European market, especially in a market with production over capacity.
I agree that Opel / Vauxhall need a "Focus moment" but TBH striking styling aside, I didn't (and still don't) see what the fuss over the Focus is all about. I know the original was a massive step change from the Escort but that wasn't exactly difficult - a wheelbarrow has a better chassis...and more charisma too.

I had a 2006 Mk2 Focus as a courtesy car for a couple of weeks and it felt like a van. - It only had 1,500 miles on it but it rattled like a clapped-out old bus. Sure, it had plenty of grip but I can honestly say that overall it handled no better than my Citroen C4 with a worse ride despite the smaller wheels. The interior felt very cheap and the steering wheel had a greasy feel to it that left your hands feeling sticky after driving. It's only redeeming features were the sheer size (plenty of room all round) and the outright cornering grip (where did the styling from the original car go?). Compared to that, my Astra - I briefly owned a Mk5 - felt like a luxury car.

The latest Focus has a better interior...however to get to it, you first have to approach it from outside and that's when the utterly horrific exterior puts me right off (the ST is the worst of the lot). I don't understand it when other cars in their range (Fiesta, Mondeo) look much better. Actually, looking at the current large family cars from Ford and Vauxhall (Insignia and Mondeo), I don't think they've ever looked better. Given the prices, I'd rather have a top-spec example of either than a poverty spec Audi A4.

I think that what I'm trying to get around to saying is that I don't understand why people have a problem with Vauxhall and what they've done that's so wrong. Their current range is very competitive and most models look fantastic - especially the sportier ones which are at least as good as the competition.
I'm not by any means putting down Vauxhall/Opel (I actually wish then well) or am I defending Ford. Just, that if the situation arose that I required a reasonably priced good car and it was a choice between the two I'd opt for the Ford, simply on the basis, judging by the motoring press that Ford could do harm with their products say over the last ten years. Nothing really more to it than that other than I really liked the Mk1 Focus, the Mk1 Ka and the Mk3 Mondeo (and I have driven the Astra, Corsa & Vectra of the same era and was not impressed). As for the Golf...well, put it this way it wouldn't really be my cup of tea.

Clivey

2,969 posts

87 months

[news] 
Friday 24th August 2012 quote quote all
Johnboy Mac said:
I'm not by any means putting down Vauxhall/Opel (I actually wish then well) or am I defending Ford. Just, that if the situation arose that I required a reasonably priced good car and it was a choice between the two I'd opt for the Ford, simply on the basis, judging by the motoring press that Ford could do harm with their products say over the last ten years. Nothing really more to it than that other than I really liked the Mk1 Focus, the Mk1 Ka and the Mk3 Mondeo (and I have driven the Astra, Corsa & Vectra of the same era and was not impressed).
I understand and I can't argue with you if you've tried the alternatives but still prefer the Ford...all I'm trying to say is that, especially with the current generation, it is worth trying those alternatives if you haven't. - Those that continue to spew the "Vauxhalls don't handle / are boring etc. etc." lines are generally too small-minded to find out for themselves. - It's not exactly as if a mid-range Golf will set your hair on fire.

Johnboy Mac said:
As for the Golf...well, put it this way it wouldn't really be my cup of tea.
hehe I think I know what you mean.

Johnboy Mac

2,666 posts

61 months

[news] 
Friday 24th August 2012 quote quote all
Clivey said:
current generation
You see there's the thing, I can't/wouldn't disagree with you on current crop but...it takes more than just the current generation to convince potential punters usually. So, let's accept that Vauxhall/Opel products are 'up there' now, in theory it will take a few years or possibly the next model generation (if they build on it) to reap the rewards so to speak.

Speaking of Golfs, I was just this morning behind a boggo '12 plater petrol being driven poorly, looked good, nice shut lines etc, then I noticed the driver...deffo a good reason to avoid. Next car, was brand new Civic, looked interesting & biggish too - more my cup of coffee, the driver wasn't half bad either biggrin

mattberkshire

55 posts

26 months

[news] 
Saturday 25th August 2012 quote quote all
Vauxhall's have never been attractive cars (aside from a few examples like the VX220). It's a pity for them. They need more headline activities like BTCC to rebuild the brand. In the past company fleets supported their sales but now the company car is dying out they have to innovate to remain competitive

CraigyMc

8,678 posts

119 months

[news] 
Saturday 25th August 2012 quote quote all
mattberkshire said:
They need more headline activities like BTCC to rebuild the brand.
I just think they have to revise how they engineer cars altogether, to make them more playful (I include the non-VXR cars in that).

Reasoning: Chevy have been running the lacetti (well, actually a car which looks like one) in the BTCC for a while. The roadcar is still crap.

Doing a race program without making the product you're advertising better? -- it leads nowhere.

C

mattberkshire

55 posts

26 months

[news] 
Saturday 25th August 2012 quote quote all
CraigyMc said:
I just think they have to revise how they engineer cars altogether, to make them more playful (I include the non-VXR cars in that).

Reasoning: Chevy have been running the lacetti (well, actually a car which looks like one) in the BTCC for a while. The roadcar is still crap.

Doing a race program without making the product you're advertising better? -- it leads nowhere.

C
I get your point (the MG is also a bit lame) but as a shop window it gets people talking about the brand
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