Well that just about wraps it up for Vauxhall !
Discussion
robinessex said:
When the Chrysler/Ople/Vauxall deal went down the pan, the UK government talked to Vauxall re job losses, whilst the German government tried to get 4.5b Euros from the EU to resurrect Opel. Says it all really.
They tried to get it, but I believe they didn't. It is not the job of the EU to prop up badly run businesses. That would be anti-competitive.
I've only driven Vauxhalls twice in my life. The first was a company Vauxhall Viva in 1972 with roadholding akin to driving in a teflon fryingpan. Various colleagues rolled 3 in one year. I never trusted it and was lucky to be able to change it for a Morris Minor Traveller which held together and had decent roadholding then.
The second time was recently as a hire car. One of their so-called Insignia top of the range. Drove it only for a weekend, not bad, comfortable, but totally gutless, as one says RepCar, not a car I'd ever even think of including in a car list...
If thats the way Vauxhall/Opel build cars it'd be better they close down. NOT good news for either of the plants and their workers.
And as for the rebadged Daewoo, they'll never be a Chevy, as they have such poor running and gutless engines. Put a Chevy smallblock in them and that'd be fun!
The second time was recently as a hire car. One of their so-called Insignia top of the range. Drove it only for a weekend, not bad, comfortable, but totally gutless, as one says RepCar, not a car I'd ever even think of including in a car list...
If thats the way Vauxhall/Opel build cars it'd be better they close down. NOT good news for either of the plants and their workers.
And as for the rebadged Daewoo, they'll never be a Chevy, as they have such poor running and gutless engines. Put a Chevy smallblock in them and that'd be fun!
As has already been mentioned; the problem is image.
Many people (PH'ers included) can't seem to get Clarkson's opinions regarding Vauxhalls out of their heads. For someone who's capable of independent thought, it's irritating as the reality is that they make some damn good cars at the moment.
Can anyone honestly say that the average 2.0TDi Audi A3 is a better car than a 2.0-litre diesel Astra? According to the motoring press, the Astra is one of the best driving cars in it's class, whereas in reality the A3's handling is wooden and the whole car is very dated now. IMO anyone who tries to argue that German cars are more reliable is an idiot. - The last three cars I've seen broken down at the side of the road were all under 7 years old and made by VAG.
Many people (PH'ers included) can't seem to get Clarkson's opinions regarding Vauxhalls out of their heads. For someone who's capable of independent thought, it's irritating as the reality is that they make some damn good cars at the moment.
Can anyone honestly say that the average 2.0TDi Audi A3 is a better car than a 2.0-litre diesel Astra? According to the motoring press, the Astra is one of the best driving cars in it's class, whereas in reality the A3's handling is wooden and the whole car is very dated now. IMO anyone who tries to argue that German cars are more reliable is an idiot. - The last three cars I've seen broken down at the side of the road were all under 7 years old and made by VAG.
Agree with Clivey.
There's not a lot wrong with the range. It certainly stands comparison with mainstream Audis and ahead of its direct Peugeot, VW and Renault competitors.
It's just that in the UK heartland for quality cars without a posh badge, there's a decline in the size of this market - but in a declining segment Ford do most things better than GM.
This leaves Vauxhall with good cars, that can only sell on a discount, putting them in direct competition with Kia etc. And in that segment, GM already have acceptable cars with an arguably cooler brand.....
There's not a lot wrong with the range. It certainly stands comparison with mainstream Audis and ahead of its direct Peugeot, VW and Renault competitors.
It's just that in the UK heartland for quality cars without a posh badge, there's a decline in the size of this market - but in a declining segment Ford do most things better than GM.
This leaves Vauxhall with good cars, that can only sell on a discount, putting them in direct competition with Kia etc. And in that segment, GM already have acceptable cars with an arguably cooler brand.....
Redlake27 said:
Agree with Clivey.
There's not a lot wrong with the range. It certainly stands comparison with mainstream Audis and ahead of its direct Peugeot, VW and Renault competitors.
It's just that in the UK heartland for quality cars without a posh badge, there's a decline in the size of this market - but in a declining segment Ford do most things better than GM.
This leaves Vauxhall with good cars, that can only sell on a discount, putting them in direct competition with Kia etc. And in that segment, GM already have acceptable cars with an arguably cooler brand.....
The laughable thing is that originally, Vauxhall were a Rolls Royce competitor and built the world's first sportscar! I have to declare an interest here - my Grandfather worked at Luton for over 30 years, but I actually like the Vauxhall badge. Nevertheless, I realise that I'm in the minority but maintain that if the Astra & Insignia had been launched with an Audi badge on the grille, they'd be everywhere by now.There's not a lot wrong with the range. It certainly stands comparison with mainstream Audis and ahead of its direct Peugeot, VW and Renault competitors.
It's just that in the UK heartland for quality cars without a posh badge, there's a decline in the size of this market - but in a declining segment Ford do most things better than GM.
This leaves Vauxhall with good cars, that can only sell on a discount, putting them in direct competition with Kia etc. And in that segment, GM already have acceptable cars with an arguably cooler brand.....
I had a Mk5 Astra that I inherited for a short while and it was a very good car. - The only reason I sold it was that it was a basic 'Club' model with the least powerful diesel in the range and wanted something quicker. However, having owned one I fail to see how the Golf's interior and build quality is seen as better, and the Astra is easily the more modern, interesting and good looking car of the two.
It boils down purely to marketing. That's why the roads are clogged with dull-as-dishwater recession grey Golfs and Audi A4s (inevitably FWD diesels with S-line body kits driven by tossers - see the "One thing that makes you think "knob" thread for details
). This is sad, as at least Opel / Vauxhall show genuine ability and can make a car feel exciting to drive compared to it's competitors (Astra VXR) and a Haldex-equipped car that's able to oversteer (Insignia VXR) on demand and drive with a nice neutral balance and excellent ride quality the rest of the time, whereas all the VW / Audi Haldex stuff is so one-dimensional and uninvolving that it's not worth having over FWD.+1 have owned a mk 5 astra 2 door also it was faultless had to sell because mrs needed a hatch with five doors so I picked up a mk5 golf 4motion that was going cheap locally. Talk about understeer, tried to hustle it quickly round a couple of roundabouts on the A5 it wouldn't turn just carried straight on- scary. Haldex is a waste of time on it. Currently driving a haldex equipped insignia as my daily motorway hack, nicely balanced, not nose heavy like a previous V6 audi A6 quattro I owned, and doesn't mind being hustled in sport mode. Interior is up there with any German box saloon. Seriously underated cars and great value.
Nothing wrong with modern Vauxhalls. I had an Insignia SRi CDTi for a while last year and once accustomed to the poor vision and sharp clutch, found it a very competent car with very good dynamics. The current Astra is also a fine car and a lot prettier than the dismal looking Kia Focus (do Ford really make it?).
Vauxhall is not a great name and it has council / chav connotations - they need to radically overhaul the dealerships and rebrand to Opel for the UK. Vauxhalls are simply rebadged Opels and pushing the fact that they're German cars will not hurt. I do hope Ellesmere Port stays open though.
Having said that, the Insignia is comfortably outselling the Mondeo at the moment, a car which after a moment of glory seems to have gone a bit stale.
Vauxhall is not a great name and it has council / chav connotations - they need to radically overhaul the dealerships and rebrand to Opel for the UK. Vauxhalls are simply rebadged Opels and pushing the fact that they're German cars will not hurt. I do hope Ellesmere Port stays open though.
Having said that, the Insignia is comfortably outselling the Mondeo at the moment, a car which after a moment of glory seems to have gone a bit stale.
iSore said:
Nothing wrong with modern Vauxhalls. I had an Insignia SRi CDTi for a while last year and once accustomed to the poor vision and sharp clutch, found it a very competent car with very good dynamics. The current Astra is also a fine car and a lot prettier than the dismal looking Kia Focus (do Ford really make it?).
Vauxhall is not a great name and it has council / chav connotations - they need to radically overhaul the dealerships and rebrand to Opel for the UK. Vauxhalls are simply rebadged Opels and pushing the fact that they're German cars will not hurt. I do hope Ellesmere Port stays open though.
Having said that, the Insignia is comfortably outselling the Mondeo at the moment, a car which after a moment of glory seems to have gone a bit stale.
See, I don't get the Vauxhall-chav connection. Maybe because I was brought up on a diet of large Vauxhall Saloons (Senator, Carlton, Omega) and my Dad having a succession of Vauxhalls as company cars.Vauxhall is not a great name and it has council / chav connotations - they need to radically overhaul the dealerships and rebrand to Opel for the UK. Vauxhalls are simply rebadged Opels and pushing the fact that they're German cars will not hurt. I do hope Ellesmere Port stays open though.
Having said that, the Insignia is comfortably outselling the Mondeo at the moment, a car which after a moment of glory seems to have gone a bit stale.
Looking at the products themselves, I fail to see how these:
are seen as chav-mobiles, whereas this:
Complete with fairly lights and a dozen S-line (on a 1.9TDi
) badges is seen as tasteful. 
I've only ever owned 1 Vauxhall in 25yrs of driving, a Cavalier Gsi in the 90's,probably had over 40 cars in 25yrs.
My works transit van had to go in for repair the other week and my hire car was a 6 month old Astra diesel (basic spec), i couldn't wait to give it back everything about it was horrible. Seats were very uncomfortable,cheap dash,gutless i could go on, what a pile of crap.
Simon.
My works transit van had to go in for repair the other week and my hire car was a 6 month old Astra diesel (basic spec), i couldn't wait to give it back everything about it was horrible. Seats were very uncomfortable,cheap dash,gutless i could go on, what a pile of crap.
Simon.
cosworth330 said:
I've only ever owned 1 Vauxhall in 25yrs of driving, a Cavalier Gsi in the 90's,probably had over 40 cars in 25yrs.
My works transit van had to go in for repair the other week and my hire car was a 6 month old Astra diesel (basic spec), i couldn't wait to give it back everything about it was horrible. Seats were very uncomfortable,cheap dash,gutless i could go on, what a pile of crap.
Simon.
But then you wouldn't pick the basic spec diesel of any car in that class if you wanted performance, just as you wouldn't buy a Golf R / Astra VXR to save fuel (unless you're trading down from a V8!).My works transit van had to go in for repair the other week and my hire car was a 6 month old Astra diesel (basic spec), i couldn't wait to give it back everything about it was horrible. Seats were very uncomfortable,cheap dash,gutless i could go on, what a pile of crap.
Simon.
Could you honestly say though that the equivalent car (trim level, engine & price) from another manufacturer was massively better in any area? The equivalent Focus / Golf is certainly nothing special and as for the Astra's dash / interior: I can't understand how you view it as "cheap". - The finish in the new Vauxhalls is at least as good in that area as my BMW (or indeed a Golf).
When I chose between small diesel hatchbacks (for an urban commuting car) about 5 years ago, I actually opted for a Citroen C4 because it was at least different (I also considered the Volvo C30). The equivalent Astra was quite plain, but there was certainly nothing wrong with it.
iSore said:
Nothing wrong with modern Vauxhalls
I'm afraid that the respondents to this year's JD Power survey would disagree with you there. In terms of ownership satisfaction (which mainly relates to quality, running costs and the dealership experience) they came bottom, or near to it, in just about every category. Blackpuddin said:
I'm afraid that the respondents to this year's JD Power survey would disagree with you there. In terms of ownership satisfaction (which mainly relates to quality, running costs and the dealership experience) they came bottom, or near to it, in just about every category.
That's interesting and at odds with the Auto Express Driver Power 2012 Survey where Vauxhall were the most improved brand up 16 places to 13th.I had an Insignia hire car to go to the GFoS last year (I'm in Aberdeen) after my mates old Corsa expired 30 miles into the journey and it was a cracking drive, Vauxhall have improved no end, not that it might be enough to save them, bin Vauxhall and sell the range as Opels and use the German badge to rebuild their sales.
Agem said:
Toast!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/mar/01/vin...
There is a parts factory in Kirby that feeds Ellesmere-port, they said yeaterday they closing in April.
Mike
Would that be Delphi ? They've been closing for years. I worked with 2 guys at Garret (Now closed) in Skelmersdale who had been made redundant from there in 1997. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/mar/01/vin...
There is a parts factory in Kirby that feeds Ellesmere-port, they said yeaterday they closing in April.
Mike
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