Lotus in DEEP Trouble?

[Agem]

Andy
Porsche/Audi offer great build Q, far better back up, but did you see Autocar got +35 MPG out of a mannel shift 911 !!!!!!

The Next Cayman is going to KILL everything in its path....& thats before the high tec Flat 4 Twincharged Turbo arrives !!!!

Lotus can only offer yesterdays Tec & Build Q.
Mike

[AndyBrew]

The Evora I looked at had a loose fitting leather dash for god sake, not being funny but I'm sure you could get a dashboard trimmed at any car trimmer without too many problems, that's just plain shoddy workmanship!

It's a shame I think it's a great looking car.

[Steffan]

I do not think Lotus are the company they were years ago when Colin Chapman was literally driving the enterprise.

Nor will they ever be. Badge engineering to a large extent now.

As others have commented VAG and Porsche an Mitsubishi, Toyota and Mazda are just too good for the likes of Lotus to survive.

[DJRC]

Agem said:

Andy
Porsche/Audi offer great build Q, far better back up, but did you see Autocar got +35 MPG out of a mannel shift 911 !!!!!!

The Next Cayman is going to KILL everything in its path....& thats before the high tec Flat 4 Twincharged Turbo arrives !!!!

Lotus can only offer yesterdays Tec & Build Q.
Mike

On quality yes. Lotus wont compete. Same with tech. Superior dynamics has lost the argument about those countering that with consumers. So what could Lotus do? I like the answer in the Exige...make it a rocketship.

Lotus always underpowered the things, using lightweight to make up the performance difference, but then lost all the ground again on the quality side. The Exige still undercuts anything from Porsche by 200KGs, but now packs an engine hitting 30BHP harder than Porsche, so performance is in a different league to the new Boxster or Cayman, esp. as Porsche wont give the Cayman its proper level of performance.

By over killing on the engine, Lotus make back up the quality deficit.


Lotus just have to survive to make the damn thing now!

[900T-R]

DJRC said:

By over killing on the engine, Lotus make back up the quality deficit.

Hm, where did I see this before...

[DJRC]

900T-R said:

DJRC said:

By over killing on the engine, Lotus make back up the quality deficit.

Hm, where did I see this before...

In terms of Lotus? Never! They have never bothered chasing HP before.

[900T-R]

Think laterally.

[Mark.H]

TVR

[DJRC]

But that is the opposite case...the USP of TVR had always been their big power and it always sold well for them. If TVR had kept to their standard gameplan, not put the money into their own engines, then the format would still be going.

[Steffan]

DJRC said:

But that is the opposite case...the USP of TVR had always been their big power and it always sold well for them. If TVR had kept to their standard gameplan, not put the money into their own engines, then the format would still be going.

I would agree one on the primary causes of failure at TVR was the error of chasing their own engines. The company never had the capital base too succeed with such a plan. Failure was inevitable.

To me Lotus as a business is no longer the firm it was in its heyday under Colin Chapman. It has not been since several metamorphosis and changes of ownership.

All the personalities have changed, all the production, and it is as, I dsaid earlier just badge engineering.

The name may attract attention but this is not the old Lotus of years ago.

IMO it will die away rather like Panther and any numbers of other specialist sports car makers.

[sparkey]

Steffan said:

All the personalities have changed, all the production, and it is as, I dsaid earlier just badge engineering.

The name may attract attention but this is not the old Lotus of years ago.

IMO it will die away rather like Panther and any numbers of other specialist sports car makers.

"all the personalities" have changed in all the great companies of the '60s and '70s. That was 40 years ago and if they hadn't been tragically killed they'd be retired long ago so that's hardly relevant. All the production is at Hethel, a facility that Chapman, the company founder,opened - I doubt that can be said of any of the other supposed "great names". As they design and manufacture all thier cars at thier own factory at Hethel I can't see how it's a badge engineering excercise!

And comparing them with Panther...... I'm speechless!

S.

[DJRC]

Steffan said:

DJRC said:

But that is the opposite case...the USP of TVR had always been their big power and it always sold well for them. If TVR had kept to their standard gameplan, not put the money into their own engines, then the format would still be going.

I would agree one on the primary causes of failure at TVR was the error of chasing their own engines. The company never had the capital base too succeed with such a plan. Failure was inevitable.

To me Lotus as a business is no longer the firm it was in its heyday under Colin Chapman. It has not been since several metamorphosis and changes of ownership.

All the personalities have changed, all the production, and it is as, I dsaid earlier just badge engineering.

The name may attract attention but this is not the old Lotus of years ago.

IMO it will die away rather like Panther and any numbers of other specialist sports car makers.

That doesnt make sense.

Kershaw and Becker are still the 2 finest chassis engineers on the planet in my humble, they are still making the things dynamically superior to everything else. The new Exige has *every* attribute needed for it to be a genius motor.

Your badge engineering comment doesnt make sense. You seem hung up on something, but Im not sure what it is.

[Steffan]

Interesting. I think Lotus will sink steadily. Perhaps I am wrong.

But I doubt if Lotus will be around in three years time unless in a different reformed company.

My view is that Lotus is not the same company as it was in its heyday.

[Negative Creep]

The Spruce goose said:

What cash cow does lotus have? they would be classed as a specialist niche car manufacturer. They would make a good mix with Toyota.

I think you're on to something there. They could take a small Toyota, slap their corporate grille on the front an charge double the price.

Oh, hang on a second.......

[Zed Ed]

Lo Toy Baru

There you go

[chris watton]

It's a horrible feeling, watching all of these makers of fantastic cars fall by the economic wayside, one by one.

I always thought that Lotus cars were generally OK, are they unreliable then? (I loved TVR's, I never seen them as unreliable, but just needing more TLC than a standard car)

[Twincam16]

Agem said:

Toyota thought so & were looking at Lotus in the early 80's..........The De-lorry-an thing blew up, Toyota walked & Chapman died !

Lexus......might have been LOTUS
Mike

Not quite - Toyota's interest continued after DeLorean, but GM swept in unexpectedly in 1986.

I can see Nissan-Renault fitting well with Lotus. The Elise could get RenaultSport engines, the Esprit could get Nissan GTR engines and the Evora-class car could be reworked around the 370Z engine.

[Agem]

Why fit a GTR engine in a Lotus to fight for sales against a GTR????

Renualt sales are down 30% this year, buying Lotus is the LAST thing they need to do. They got Alpine & Gor-di-e etc, they going to shutting factory very soon.

I see NO future for Lotus, they failed to make a profit for the last 20 years or so......they need a "Sugar daddy"....but what would the Sugare daddy get in return???

I heard ALL this before with TVR, They DEAD!
Mike

[loose cannon]

Twincam16 said:

Not quite - Toyota's interest continued after DeLorean, but GM swept in unexpectedly in 1986.

I can see Nissan-Renault fitting well with Lotus. The Elise could get
RenaultSport engines, the Esprit could get Nissan GTR engines and the Evora-class car could be reworked
around the 370Z engine.

Exactly my train of thought, ;0)

[sisu]

I think the current TVR Sagaris being made with a vette V8 is a bit like a modern old AC Cobra or Lynx Jag. Punters going all damp eyed and waxing lryically about TVRs they could and should just keep on building them on a drip feed for years.
The idea of putting a stonking V8 into a Lotus with a manual and move into supercar circles with an improved interior build quality - well buy a Noble.
Put an even BIGGER engine and you go all Koenigsegzz.
But those companies are there because punters are buying them and they have a good business model.

As Harris said today "Lotus to enter LMP1, LMP2, WRC, FIA GT, launch 5 new models by 2015, hire Swizz Beatz, work with Mansory, make Exige cab. April fooo.... oh."