RE: Government blamed for increase in road deaths

RE: Government blamed for increase in road deaths

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Tyre Tread

10,525 posts

215 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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Further to my ealier post I have been pondering what would happen to the number of road deaths if it was announced that as from midnight tonight any pedestrians that were hit whilst on the road would be held responsible.

I suspect they would reduce significantly by making people who are best able to adapt qucikly to a situation to make reasonable judgements about their own safety instead of relying on another entity with less time/opportunity to adjust to circumstances.

zebedee

4,589 posts

277 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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Tyre Tread said:
Further to my ealier post I have been pondering what would happen to the number of road deaths if it was announced that as from midnight tonight any pedestrians that were hit whilst on the road would be held responsible.

I suspect they would reduce significantly by making people who are best able to adapt qucikly to a situation to make reasonable judgements about their own safety instead of relying on another entity with less time/opportunity to adjust to circumstances.
A driver should always have time/opportunity to adjust to circumstances, otherwise they are driving faster than conditions allow. If you are doing 40 in a 40 zone with a pavement, but see a toddler pull free from its mother's hands, you should see that and you should slow down.

Granted, there are instances where there is nothing you can do, like where someone runs from behind a bus, but again the driver is responsible for slowing and giving some distance at least.

I'm not disagreeing that peds often are the author of their own misfortune, but I think we all have to agree that we do very often drive too fast round blind bends or humpback bridges etc such that we can't react if anything unusual presents itself.

Driving well requires a huge amount of concentration, few drivers drive with much of it all.

LewisR

678 posts

214 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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0a said:
Taking one statistic and doing a year on year is always dangerous. We could do all sorts of interesting analysis using stats and breakdowns, but sometimes a simple plot of the fuller data series gives us a little more context.

Below I plot the total deaths 2001-2009 and a trend, and then 2010 and 2011 that the report is banging on about. Data from the source in the report, Reported road casualties Great Britain: main results 2011.



As you can see the last 2 years have been well below the falling trendline.
Was that a Least Squares Regression Line you used then to get the trend line?

timewatch

881 posts

193 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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51 more deaths!

= Higher road Tax, more speed humps, more Street furniture, more regulation, higher fuel costs, higher insurance, more speed cameras.

Going by past experience, yes all coming to a Town near you soon!

It's not a stronger Government we need, it's just some common sense and that's devoid in all Goverment leadership!

TW>>>

oj121

1,548 posts

171 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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The only thing I believe the government can be held accountable for in this scenario is failing to maintain quality/up to date/usable road network. Surely that will contribute to accidents but at a far smaller percentage than other factors.

Gixer_fan

290 posts

197 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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alex_rsa said:
Am I suprised with the increase of pedestrian casulaties, no.

I am actaully amazed it has stayed so low. I ride into London daily on a motorbike and as you hare normally at the head of the traffic you see some "amazing" things.

The responsibility of crossing the road seems now to be with the road user to guess what the pedestrian will do. We had the Green Cross code drummed into us as a kid and it made it YOUR responsibility to find a same place to cross the road. To cross quickly and check for traffic as you crossed to road.

It is a very regular occurance for a pedastrian to walk straight up to the traffic light and cross (assuming the traffic is not phsically moving). The fact the crossing man is red and they have no idea how long for does not seem to come into the equation. Normally this person will have a mobile to their ear or be updating the "status" as they cross the road.

There is also the diaganol-crosser who will cross a busy double width road after a quick (and once only) glance over their shoulder. Normally seen wearing headphones and will never check the traffic again as they make their way across a 4 lane road oblivious to any noise around them.

I also think the "youth" ( a term I find hard to use as I have only just turned 40) has grown up blase/arragant about road deaths. The figure has been low for most of their lives as cars and driving standards have improved so much over the last 20 years.

I am sure the smart phones will lead to a further increase in deaths and casulaties as those users make their way onto the roads. I already see a staggering amount of people texting and updating their accounts while driving.

Because I overtake 100's of cars every day you can determine what the driver is actually doing by their car position. 99% of the time the car that has a irregular following distance and is unable to stay straight in the lane will be texting (writing or reading). Actaully talking on the phone does not have such a definate pattern.

Get people to take responsibility for their actions and we should be OK.


Rant over
This.
As an occasional (fair weather) biker my blood boils when I see drivers phoning / texting / eating / drinking their coffee to go / smoking / checking the sat nav / adjusting the radio / climate control... Basically most people sit in the driving seat like they're relaxing in their lounge at home. But if they're not over the limit that's fine (well who's policing them?).
The rise in the stats (especially those of pedestrians) wouldn't coincide with the proliferation in smart phones and ipods, would it? I mean can a 14-24yo pass one minute without looking at their mobiles?



Willy Nilly

12,511 posts

166 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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At what point will some one say, "you know what, the roads are safe enough"?

Mike Brown

585 posts

186 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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Its down to lack of police enforcement, speed cameras are simpl not enough we need more traffic police back out there again. years back we had less cars and many more patrols, I see blatant abuse of the rules of the road everyday, people get away scot free knowing they are unlikely to be caught, except by a speed camera. Sadly this trend will continue to escalate .

Ross Parker

516 posts

191 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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I would put road accidents and deaths down to:

. Decrease in road surface quality

. The driving test being a load of rubbish

. People not paying enough attention whilst driving

I mean you dont even need to know how to use a motorway when you pass your test, thats why half the population sit in the middle lane.

The government has been extremly lax on road repairs over that past few years, having a poor surface to grip to doesnt help and the fact bugdget tyres are legal even though they have no grip at 20mph let alone braking at 70mph

hairykrishna

13,158 posts

202 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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0a said:
As you can see the last 2 years have been well below the falling trendline.
Plotting it as deaths per motor vehicle mile is even more telling. Deaths per billion vehicle miles;



It looks like last year was lower than the trend rather than there being anything extraordinary about this year.

drpep

1,758 posts

167 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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PSBuckshot said:
I don't blame the government. I blame the complete stupidity of the average motorist in the UK.
Correct.

However you cut it, human behaviour is largely developed through repetition and affirmation. Joe Cockblow drives to work like a in his fast Audi for 4 years. He has no accidents.

One day a car is stuck on the blind crest he usually does 90mph over. Joe dies.

Worst thing is, he's done nothing wrong according to left brain thought. thanks to confirmation bias which has told him that doing this for 4 years without accident equals safe driving.

Plainview23

312 posts

211 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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Bet it was wetter last year than the previous. There's a pretty obvious correlation between weather and road deaths but "the powers that be" generally don't like acknowledging it because it betrays the fact that they are not omnipotent.

carinaman

21,214 posts

171 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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How many died in that pile up on the M5 on Nov. 4?

People driving into fog and hurtling down the outside despite the tailback was due to the coalition?

Hasn't subsequent press coverage cited the failure to commission fog warning lights/signs on that stretch of the M5? Drivers can't tell it's foggy?

Flat earth news and churnalism means many local newspapers rely on a direct feed from the public sector for page filling content and the coverage of court cases and inquests clearly show or indicate why people have died in road accidents.

Remembering the road deaths that have appeared in my local press I can't say the coalition figured in any of them.

Edited by carinaman on Wednesday 18th July 19:57

macdeb

8,492 posts

254 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
quotequote all
Any death is tragic. [imagine brother, sister, mother?] But, as far as I can see there is NO education anymore as far as road safety is concerned. People [especially the young] just walk out in front of cars almost enticing the driver to hit them with their arrogant attitude. Also, people are not taught to drive anymore, they are mearly taught how to pass a test.

carinaman

21,214 posts

171 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
quotequote all
macdeb said:
Any death is tragic. [imagine brother, sister, mother?]
Isn't it slightly distasteful that the relatives of those that lost people on the roads last year probably have some inkling of how they died and know it had nothing to do with what political party was in power? It's a bit like dancing on their graves?

Ghouls. frown

0000

13,812 posts

190 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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ThePlanner said:
Let me ask this question. How many deaths on UK roads would you deem to be acceptable.
All of them.

If the roads are that dangerous I'll stay at home, otherwise I'll consider the risk and act accordingly. If Darwin gets me, good.

ZX10Ben

53 posts

140 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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macdeb said:
Any death is tragic. [imagine brother, sister, mother?] But, as far as I can see there is NO education anymore as far as road safety is concerned. People [especially the young] just walk out in front of cars almost enticing the driver to hit them with their arrogant attitude. Also, people are not taught to drive anymore, they are mearly taught how to pass a test.
Entirely agree on the above.

I've lost count of the times I've seen pedestrians wander out into the roads thinking their invincible. They seem totally oblivious to the fact it’s a road, and I can only assume they think it’s an extension of the pavement?... As mentioned numerous times throughout this thread, what happened to the Green Cross Code? When was it decided that we didn’t need it anymore?

There could be lots of reasons the road deaths have increased. More people learning to drive, more people driving in this country, more people on the roads in general due to an ever growing population, the time of year when those deaths occurred as a result of there being more people in the country….. or maybe, it was just a bad year and we really shouldn’t read too much in to it?! But how un-British of us would that be?....

I’m sure there’ll be a knee-jerk reaction somewhere, and instead of looking at updating the training methods, courses and peoples perception to incorporate modern hazards, situations and scenarios, they’ll talk about speed limits being too high and how we MUST lower them. Funny thing is.… The speed limits only affect the people that obey them. If you’re speeding, then I’m not sure what difference lowering them is going to make?! (Other than generate revenue… of course…)

Edited by ZX10Ben on Wednesday 18th July 20:13

Liquid Knight

15,754 posts

182 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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I knew the collision I witnessed was the governments fault it had nothing to do with either driver involved, a bloody Tory left a banana skin in the road. wink

p4pedro

429 posts

192 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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Half of the problem lies with drivers driving TOO SLOW, 35 - 45mph on B roads where the speed limit is 60mph. huge convoys of traffic stuck behind these people ,then the odd driver will take a risk to overtake , and the second driver is too nervous to overtake. Not too bad when in the TVR I can weave in and out quite easily , but when in my van I have no chance. Then trying to pull out at junctions with a never ending trail of slow moving traffic -again causing drivers to try and speed through a small gap.

peter

Escort Si-130

3,269 posts

179 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
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When many of the cyclists learn to ride properly they would not be killed. Today one riding on the nearside of the carriageway when approaching a junction wants to turn right, but instead of looking behind him or even making a right signal. Just swerved right in front of me to turn right without looking. I had to slam on the brakes, he was shocked. Many of them imo just cant be bothered to look when turning and just love to weave in and out of traffic, they are worst than pizza mopeds now.

Doesnt matter if you have millions of speed humps and cameras, but without any commonsense on the road, more deaths would occur; especially with the crap weather we have been getting.