RE: Government blamed for increase in road deaths
Discussion
Taking one statistic and doing a year on year is always dangerous. We could do all sorts of interesting analysis using stats and breakdowns, but sometimes a simple plot of the fuller data series gives us a little more context.
Below I plot the total deaths 2001-2009 and a trend, and then 2010 and 2011 that the report is banging on about. Data from the source in the report, Reported road casualties Great Britain: main results 2011.
As you can see the last 2 years have been well below the falling trendline.
Below I plot the total deaths 2001-2009 and a trend, and then 2010 and 2011 that the report is banging on about. Data from the source in the report, Reported road casualties Great Britain: main results 2011.
As you can see the last 2 years have been well below the falling trendline.
dingocooke said:
moanthebairns said:
ROAD DEATHS IN 2010-11
Car occupants: 883 (up 6%)
Pedestrians: 453 (up 12%)
Motorcyclists: 362 (down 10%)
Cyclists: 107 (down 4%)
"We are very concerned that 2011 saw the first increase in road fatalities since 2003, with 1901 people killed on the roads," said Louise Ellman, chair of the Transport Committee. "It is shocking that road accidents are the main cause of death amongst young adults aged 16-24 and that so many cyclists continue to be killed or injured."Car occupants: 883 (up 6%)
Pedestrians: 453 (up 12%)
Motorcyclists: 362 (down 10%)
Cyclists: 107 (down 4%)
The chair is clearly not even reading her own stats; cycling deaths down, mortocycle deaths down; pedestrain deaths up...
....hey why not just ban mobile phones (completely) probaly halve the pedstrian deaths, and cut all accidents as well!!! only kidding..but boy is it temping!!!
I blame the state of our poorly maintained roads, sunken tarmac around drain covers, utility companies digging up areas of road then not bothering to fill them in to the correct standard, worn out white line painting, overgrown hedgerows covering many street signs, then when the councils do decide to do a surface dressing on the roads they do not bother to even out the subsided bumps but spray a bit of tar on the road and then throw stones all over it 
then they leave the loose stones on the road for a couple of weeks making it lethal if you ride a Motorcycle. and If your a car driver the stones smash your paint to bits. Then there's the usual Bollards and Keep left signs on the traffic islands, normally filthy dirty or not lit or smashed to bits.
Then there's the wonderful speed bumps, they stick a bit of paint on them when their new but after a few months the paint wears off and as soon as it rains you have a serious road hazard! Try riding a motorcycle with a wet visor at night or in the evening and hitting one of these f
king death traps. Then there's the pretty different coloured stones and surface dressings the councils like to waste their monies on. You know you will see a different coloured patch near crossings or junctions now and again, it lasts about 3 or 4 months then looks really st. 
Street lighting, ha ha, there's another scam, one crew come along and dig a hole leaving earth and crap piled up by the side of the road, then its all coned off for a few weeks then another crew come along and install a new lamp post, then another lot connect it up and finally someone might take the old lamp post away. Yet more of our monies wasted in a so called recession.
So as usual they will blame everything on speed, the Councils should be held responsible for all of the above problems. But they have no monies they say.....Well if they had not invested OUR, yes OUR monies in some Icelandic bank, they would have rather a lot Finally if you ever bother to watch any of those Police camera action programs, the fines some of these offenders get is a piss take on the whole of society. The criminal justice system really needs a shake up in dealing with the low life scum that think Nicking someones car is fun and then smashing it up in a joy ride, only to get a caution of community service.
rant over ......for now.
then they leave the loose stones on the road for a couple of weeks making it lethal if you ride a Motorcycle. and If your a car driver the stones smash your paint to bits. Then there's the usual Bollards and Keep left signs on the traffic islands, normally filthy dirty or not lit or smashed to bits.Then there's the wonderful speed bumps, they stick a bit of paint on them when their new but after a few months the paint wears off and as soon as it rains you have a serious road hazard! Try riding a motorcycle with a wet visor at night or in the evening and hitting one of these f
king death traps. Then there's the pretty different coloured stones and surface dressings the councils like to waste their monies on. You know you will see a different coloured patch near crossings or junctions now and again, it lasts about 3 or 4 months then looks really st. Street lighting, ha ha, there's another scam, one crew come along and dig a hole leaving earth and crap piled up by the side of the road, then its all coned off for a few weeks then another crew come along and install a new lamp post, then another lot connect it up and finally someone might take the old lamp post away. Yet more of our monies wasted in a so called recession.So as usual they will blame everything on speed, the Councils should be held responsible for all of the above problems. But they have no monies they say.....Well if they had not invested OUR, yes OUR monies in some Icelandic bank, they would have rather a lot
Finally if you ever bother to watch any of those Police camera action programs, the fines some of these offenders get is a piss take on the whole of society. The criminal justice system really needs a shake up in dealing with the low life scum that think Nicking someones car is fun and then smashing it up in a joy ride, only to get a caution of community service.rant over ......for now.
The more I look, the more this report boils my piss. Either they're retarded or they deliberately set out to score a political point. Or both, of course.
More detailed breakdowns of the statistics are available in convenient format here; http://www.dft.gov.uk/statistics?series=road-accid...
More detailed breakdowns of the statistics are available in convenient format here; http://www.dft.gov.uk/statistics?series=road-accid...
efini92 said:
It's hardly surprising the number of cyclists killed is high, the amount I see on a daily basis running red lights, dropping off kerbs into traffic, riding the wrong way on the road is ridiculous. These people need educating before its too late. Just thought I'd mention I do also see some adhering to the rules of the road
And on the flip side when I am riding I see many cars passing too close or overtaking where it isn't safe and forcing oncoming traffic to brake and/or swerve and pulling in whilst overtaking despite not being past me and overtaking and then turning left and driving into the side of me.I don't run red lights, don't go on pavements and don't go the wrong way up one way streets, I agree they are stupid things to do, but I suspect there are at least half the deaths down to bad driving in / around cyclists as opposed to bad cycling.
I improve my own chances, knowing what sort of thing happens and learning from close calls, by taking up a strong road position on my bike where appropriate and I agree that education is needed in that regard of riders (but also of car drivers who can assume that by doing so we are being arrogant or simply intent on slowing them down). A bit more respect all round would go a long way to making the roads a lot safer.
ArnieVXR said:
The sad fact is that speed kills...
If we travelled at a steady zero mph (or even kph), the only deaths that would occur would be due to boredom.
Was wondering if the increase was due to us all being wealthy enough to outsource the driving to people from countries with lower driving standards?
Abject nonsense. Dangerous driving kills, whatever the speed. Ask yourself, if 'speed kills' why haven't we got a completely new grid of drivers for each F1 race? If we travelled at a steady zero mph (or even kph), the only deaths that would occur would be due to boredom.
Was wondering if the increase was due to us all being wealthy enough to outsource the driving to people from countries with lower driving standards?
zebedee said:
efini92 said:
It's hardly surprising the number of cyclists killed is high, the amount I see on a daily basis running red lights, dropping off kerbs into traffic, riding the wrong way on the road is ridiculous. These people need educating before its too late. Just thought I'd mention I do also see some adhering to the rules of the road
And on the flip side when I am riding I see many cars passing too close or overtaking where it isn't safe and forcing oncoming traffic to brake and/or swerve and pulling in whilst overtaking despite not being past me and overtaking and then turning left and driving into the side of me.I don't run red lights, don't go on pavements and don't go the wrong way up one way streets, I agree they are stupid things to do, but I suspect there are at least half the deaths down to bad driving in / around cyclists as opposed to bad cycling.
I improve my own chances, knowing what sort of thing happens and learning from close calls, by taking up a strong road position on my bike where appropriate and I agree that education is needed in that regard of riders (but also of car drivers who can assume that by doing so we are being arrogant or simply intent on slowing them down). A bit more respect all round would go a long way to making the roads a lot safer.
My point, apart from being a 'Cool story bro.' is that he celarly wasn't thinking about his own safets as he would seem to think its everyone else's responsibility.
Somewhat akin to the kids in cities who walk into the road with wild abandon as they assume if yoiu hit them its automatically your fault and they can employee some ambulance chaser to sue your arse off for 'compo'. The blood boiler is that they're right!
layo said:
One of the members of this Transport Committee is:
Julie Hilling - A Greater Manchester Labour MP.
Julie took the piss out of the tax payer by claiming £120,000 in expenses for 2 months.
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/p...
When will this gravy train stop?
Nail on head - these screaming banshees are trying to justify their own boondoggles and outrageous poncing of taxpayers' money based upon an insignificant standard deviation.Julie Hilling - A Greater Manchester Labour MP.
Julie took the piss out of the tax payer by claiming £120,000 in expenses for 2 months.
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/p...
When will this gravy train stop?
Tyre Tread said:
At least give me half a chance to see you in advance!
Agreed, I use 2 rear lights and wear high viz, to be avoided, you have to be seen!Agreed also on people walking out - the number of people who walk out between cars (whether parked or queing) without even glancing to see if a motorbike or cycle is still moving is very worrying.
Another load of statistics written to emphasize the worst part of the subject being reported on, so the figures have risen for the first time in nearly 10 yrs and as many contributors have said the actual increase in fatalities is miniscule in comparison to the billions of journeys undertake, by whatever means, every year. What they don't show is what happened in each accident, how many were caused by human error.
How many of the pedestrians were killed because they stepped of the pavement without looking or ran from behind a bus thereby giving the vehicle driver no chance to avoid them or how many were killed by an idiot doing 60 mph in a 30mph limit thus lessening the time the pedestrian had to cross or how many were killed on pelican crossings.
when it comes to cyclists what number were killed by vehicle drivers making a mistake or the invincible cyclist not looking before making a manouver in moving traffic or riding off a pavement straight into the path of a bus, how many were aged 17 to 24 or does't that age group count when you don't have to pay insurance.
And of those aged 17 to 24 yrs who were killed how many were killed by a 50yr old hgv driver not seeing them and causing the accident, or were hit by a 40 yr old drunk driver or an 80yr old driver who has nothing wrong with his eyesight because he can still see the sky, after all how far do you need to see!
Statistics can be valuable when well used, instead they are presented as nothing more than one persons/committees propagander .
It's a pity that these same persons can't use statistics to quantify the sense of loss, the horror, the grief, guilt or the pain, the pain that lasts and lasts for oh so many years, the great hole left in so many lives that never goes away, it may ease slightly with time but it never goes away, this is what lies behind those perverted statistics and the consequences of their actions are what everyone should be taught. A tiny rise in the percentage rate is much more than a number it is a personal tragedy to someone .
How many of the pedestrians were killed because they stepped of the pavement without looking or ran from behind a bus thereby giving the vehicle driver no chance to avoid them or how many were killed by an idiot doing 60 mph in a 30mph limit thus lessening the time the pedestrian had to cross or how many were killed on pelican crossings.
when it comes to cyclists what number were killed by vehicle drivers making a mistake or the invincible cyclist not looking before making a manouver in moving traffic or riding off a pavement straight into the path of a bus, how many were aged 17 to 24 or does't that age group count when you don't have to pay insurance.
And of those aged 17 to 24 yrs who were killed how many were killed by a 50yr old hgv driver not seeing them and causing the accident, or were hit by a 40 yr old drunk driver or an 80yr old driver who has nothing wrong with his eyesight because he can still see the sky, after all how far do you need to see!
Statistics can be valuable when well used, instead they are presented as nothing more than one persons/committees propagander .
It's a pity that these same persons can't use statistics to quantify the sense of loss, the horror, the grief, guilt or the pain, the pain that lasts and lasts for oh so many years, the great hole left in so many lives that never goes away, it may ease slightly with time but it never goes away, this is what lies behind those perverted statistics and the consequences of their actions are what everyone should be taught. A tiny rise in the percentage rate is much more than a number it is a personal tragedy to someone .
Black S2K said:
layo said:
One of the members of this Transport Committee is:
Julie Hilling - A Greater Manchester Labour MP.
Julie took the piss out of the tax payer by claiming £120,000 in expenses for 2 months.
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/p...
When will this gravy train stop?
Nail on head - these screaming banshees are trying to justify their own boondoggles and outrageous poncing of taxpayers' money based upon an insignificant standard deviation.Julie Hilling - A Greater Manchester Labour MP.
Julie took the piss out of the tax payer by claiming £120,000 in expenses for 2 months.
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/p...
When will this gravy train stop?
0a said:
Taking one statistic and doing a year on year is always dangerous. We could do all sorts of interesting analysis using stats and breakdowns, but sometimes a simple plot of the fuller data series gives us a little more context.
Below I plot the total deaths 2001-2009 and a trend, and then 2010 and 2011 that the report is banging on about. Data from the source in the report, Reported road casualties Great Britain: main results 2011.
As you can see the last 2 years have been well below the falling trendline.
Now if you put a line through the points from 2007 the decline would be huge , we could probably get to zero in 10 years or so!Below I plot the total deaths 2001-2009 and a trend, and then 2010 and 2011 that the report is banging on about. Data from the source in the report, Reported road casualties Great Britain: main results 2011.
As you can see the last 2 years have been well below the falling trendline.
The question should be what happened in that period compared to the previous period that meant there were fewer deaths? Has anything changed or is it just variance in a realatively small sample.
redstu said:
Now if you put a line through the points from 2007 the decline would be huge , we could probably get to zero in 10 years or so!
The question should be what happened in that period compared to the previous period that meant there were fewer deaths? Has anything changed or is it just variance in a realatively small sample.
If you look at the longer timescale graph, the downward trend continues all the way back to the mid 60's (stolen from wikipedia);The question should be what happened in that period compared to the previous period that meant there were fewer deaths? Has anything changed or is it just variance in a realatively small sample.
It's fairly worthless though. Without some kind of comparison with, for example, total passenger miles travelled it tells us little. I suspect that it's been going down all the way even as number of journeys and car ownership increases so the decrease in real terms is even more than the graph indicates.
Making a big deal about the change from 2010-2011 is incredibly daft and it annoys me immensely that we collectively pay for these f
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