Armageddon for modified car owners
Discussion
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Podie said:
The aftermarket parts industry is worth billions - are the EU really going to wipe this out in one go?
Yeah and car makers want those billions!!Choices will be:-
- Manufacturer applied modifications only (£2000 for a remap instead of £500)
- If you insist on owning a modified car, SVA test. Cash for the goverment.
Either way, someone makes money out of this.
I suspect they will introduce a new 'catch all' CO2 tax bracket, so big V8s fitted to older cars will be taxed off the road. But how they will test so many individual vehicles, I don't know. The cost will be crazy.
But if all this removes the dubious chassis modifications I see on the roads, such as wheels poking 4" past the arches, cars so low they can't get over speed humps and massive spoilers held on with self-tappers, then I'm all for it!
Yes - it has been corroborated, our MEP is commenting that we should make a lot of noise as members of the kit car industry, VOSA have said the same. This "safe for now" line is simply rubbish. Everyone with a vague interest in the subject should sign the e-petition against it. (100,000 signatures needed before a discussion is held in parliament) http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/37784
clum said:
Yes - it has been corroborated, our MEP is commenting that we should make a lot of noise as members of the kit car industry, VOSA have said the same. This "safe for now" line is simply rubbish. Everyone with a vague interest in the subject should sign the e-petition against it. (100,000 signatures needed before a discussion is held in parliament) http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/37784
so how many PH'ers have signed? still only 5362 signatures. come on folks get signing.hman said:
- or it may push those who want to modify their cars into proper motorsport ?
And how would you define 'proper motorsport'. I assume you basically mean circuit racing, Formula Libre & the like classes in hillclimbs & sprints and similar in drag racing. Because this stupid legislation will instantly kill off one of the most popular forms of motorsport - ie rallying. It would also mean the end of road going modified car classes in hillclimbing & sprinting (which I would suggest make up most of the entries in most events) & much of drag racing including most of the 'run what you brung' classes. As well as sports such as off road 4x4's etc. I would suggest that rallying, speed events & properly organised drag racing all count as 'proper motorsport' - & all would be wiped out overnight if this nonsense becomes law. Or should we go back to rallying standard cars as in the fifties - with no cages or harnesses, crossply tyres, drum brakes & driver/navigators wearing a pudding bowl helmet & collar & tie!! No thanks...OK, when are we going to blockade the M4? My son, myself & our fully rally prepared & heavily modified Mini will be there.
Keith
PS somebody asked would they get a refund from Adrian Flux if this becomes law. I venture to suggest not, as they will probably have gone bankrupt as I would think premiums from modified car owners will make up a significant proportion of their business. As it does the local broker we are insured with, & presumably a number of other companies that invest heavily in advertising in magazines that tend to specialise in features on modified cars. And there's another two industry sectors that need to get their ar*es in gear & fight this nonsense.
At last, some press recognition on this subject. As posted earlier, as of 10.53 this morning there are only 7006 signatures on the Govt' epetition.
How many modified cars and bikes are there in the UK? There are at least 165,000 classic cars with the classic owners very actively pushing to stop this proposal in any way possible. So, I urge all PH'ers to take only 5mins and complete the following...and that means you too...the quiet chap sat at the rear of the class; yes you!
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/37784
How many modified cars and bikes are there in the UK? There are at least 165,000 classic cars with the classic owners very actively pushing to stop this proposal in any way possible. So, I urge all PH'ers to take only 5mins and complete the following...and that means you too...the quiet chap sat at the rear of the class; yes you!
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/37784
pls note that a certain Mr Roger Mellie has today put forward the following to he Commission:
Roger Mellie says:
September 12, 2012 at 12:24 pm
Thank you very much for the posting.
Could you please answer the following so that we have proper clarification?
What is meant by ‘day to day’ use? Does this mean commercial use, or simply a historic vehicle used as daily transport? And how will it be enforced?
Can you please respond to the other press/internet hype concerning:
Harmonisation of EU transport rules
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/armageddon/
Rules on vehicle modifications to Historic Vehicles
Trailer registration and testing
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uk.admin says:
September 12, 2012 at 3:23 pm
several questions here…we’ll look into it and respond
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http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/press-reports-...
Roger Mellie says:
September 12, 2012 at 12:24 pm
Thank you very much for the posting.
Could you please answer the following so that we have proper clarification?
What is meant by ‘day to day’ use? Does this mean commercial use, or simply a historic vehicle used as daily transport? And how will it be enforced?
Can you please respond to the other press/internet hype concerning:
Harmonisation of EU transport rules
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/armageddon/
Rules on vehicle modifications to Historic Vehicles
Trailer registration and testing
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uk.admin says:
September 12, 2012 at 3:23 pm
several questions here…we’ll look into it and respond
Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/press-reports-...
iv not read through all these posts but i have read through this:
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/doc/roadworthiness-p...
The only mention of modified cars is:
4. Notwithstanding the date of its last roadworthiness test, the competent authority may
require that a vehicle be subject to a roadworthiness test or additional testing before
the date referred to in paragraphs 1 and 2, in the following cases:
– after an accident with serious damage to the main safety related components of
the vehicle such as wheels, suspension, deformation zones, steering or brakes,
– when the safety and environmental systems and components of the vehicle
have been altered or modified,
– in case of a change of the holder of the registration certificate of a vehicle.
in the uk the roadworthiness test being an MOT. doesn't this just mean that any modifications to a cars safety or environmental systems would require a new MOT to ensure they have been installed correctly and safely and also make sure they haven't effect emissions too detrimentally.
i could be wrong but is this not a case of Chinese whispers. yes all your cars will be illegal till they have had an MOT to prove road worthiness and environmental friendliness
iv signed the petition anyways as i think the government should keep there mits off my car.
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/doc/roadworthiness-p...
The only mention of modified cars is:
4. Notwithstanding the date of its last roadworthiness test, the competent authority may
require that a vehicle be subject to a roadworthiness test or additional testing before
the date referred to in paragraphs 1 and 2, in the following cases:
– after an accident with serious damage to the main safety related components of
the vehicle such as wheels, suspension, deformation zones, steering or brakes,
– when the safety and environmental systems and components of the vehicle
have been altered or modified,
– in case of a change of the holder of the registration certificate of a vehicle.
in the uk the roadworthiness test being an MOT. doesn't this just mean that any modifications to a cars safety or environmental systems would require a new MOT to ensure they have been installed correctly and safely and also make sure they haven't effect emissions too detrimentally.
i could be wrong but is this not a case of Chinese whispers. yes all your cars will be illegal till they have had an MOT to prove road worthiness and environmental friendliness
iv signed the petition anyways as i think the government should keep there mits off my car.
BAS231187 said:
The only mention of modified cars is:
– in case of a change of the holder of the registration certificate of a vehicle.
So the car has to have a new MOT to be sold.....or just a current one? Must say I prefer to buy cars with 12 months MOT anyway.– in case of a change of the holder of the registration certificate of a vehicle.
Other issues spring to mind though:
Scenario 1.: I have just changed the rear shocks on my TVR for adjustable Gaz Nickels, partly because I want to adjust them to track settings for track days, and partly because they were cheaper than OEM Bilsteins. Is this a problem, or will an MOT or IVA test deal with it? I agree with being safe, I have a duty to other road users and pedestrians to make sure my car is safe.
Scenario 2.: TVR replacement windscreens are getting to be unobtainable, so we are ganging together to get spares made. Will this be a problem?
Scenario 3.: I use non standard wheels in summer so that I can have non-standard tyres on the car for better dry weather handling......but the wet handling is compromised. So I don't go out if it is raining. Are the wheels a problem? Are any tyres other then those specified by the manufacturer a problem?
Quietlybonkers said:
So the car has to have a new MOT to be sold.....or just a current one? Must say I prefer to buy cars with 12 months MOT anyway.
Other issues spring to mind though:
Scenario 1.: I have just changed the rear shocks on my TVR for adjustable Gaz Nickels, partly because I want to adjust them to track settings for track days, and partly because they were cheaper than OEM Bilsteins. Is this a problem, or will an MOT or IVA test deal with it? I agree with being safe, I have a duty to other road users and pedestrians to make sure my car is safe.
Scenario 2.: TVR replacement windscreens are getting to be unobtainable, so we are ganging together to get spares made. Will this be a problem?
Scenario 3.: I use non standard wheels in summer so that I can have non-standard tyres on the car for better dry weather handling......but the wet handling is compromised. So I don't go out if it is raining. Are the wheels a problem? Are any tyres other then those specified by the manufacturer a problem?
More importantly, with a defunct factory and parts supply, any part replaced will effectively be a modification as it will enevitably not be an oem part.Other issues spring to mind though:
Scenario 1.: I have just changed the rear shocks on my TVR for adjustable Gaz Nickels, partly because I want to adjust them to track settings for track days, and partly because they were cheaper than OEM Bilsteins. Is this a problem, or will an MOT or IVA test deal with it? I agree with being safe, I have a duty to other road users and pedestrians to make sure my car is safe.
Scenario 2.: TVR replacement windscreens are getting to be unobtainable, so we are ganging together to get spares made. Will this be a problem?
Scenario 3.: I use non standard wheels in summer so that I can have non-standard tyres on the car for better dry weather handling......but the wet handling is compromised. So I don't go out if it is raining. Are the wheels a problem? Are any tyres other then those specified by the manufacturer a problem?
Frankly, as said above, any part that is not OEM on any car will be questionable if the discussion above is anything to go by, for example any third party suspension rubbers or CV gaiters or brake pads on a Ford Fiesta will be just as big a problem as a 600 bhp mod on a Toyota Supra.....or am I missing the point somewhere along the line?
Goaty Bill said:
Wrong. 
There is at least one.
Really? No third party brake pads, no changes of shocks, no rubber bits that aren't OEM? I'd be surprised. My TVR repairer gets his CV gaiters, for example, wherever he can find parts of suitable quality that fit, rather than sourcing everything from a major player. And I am told that windscreens are getting very hard to find now.There is at least one.
My biggest concern is both this and the insurance position - we all get asked if we have modified the car in any way when we renew the insurance, but nobody says "It came on Michelins, but I have changed to Toyos" or whatever, do they? Mine has spent the summer on non-standard 17 inch wheels and Yokohamas that frankly were a nightmare on standing water, but I didn't tell the insurers. Instead I only took it out in the dry. The braking and cornering were much, much better. But the time I got caught out by a sudden downpour I did lose the back end for half a second on a huge puddle......at 20 mph. What if I had hit something/someone? Insurance up the spout? Police on my case? Driving an illegal vehicle?
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