News letter from FBHVC
Discussion
News letter from the FBHVC
Although it is from the FBHVC read down as it concerns 'modern' vehicles as well.
Its a bit on the long side but, worth reading right through.
NEWSLETTER
No 1, 2014
President: Lord Montagu of Beaulieu
Chairman: David Whale
Secretary: Rosy Pugh
All correspondence to the secretary at the registered office
Registered office: Stonewold, Berrick Salome
Wallingford, Oxfordshire. OX10 6JR
Telephone & Fax: 01865 400845
Email: secretary@fbhvc.co.uk.
About FBHVC
The Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs exists to uphold the freedom to use old vehicles on the road. It does this by
representing the interests of owners of such vehicles to politicians, government officials, and legislators both in UK and
(through membership of Fédération Internationale des Véhicules Anciens) in Europe.
FBHVC is a company limited by guarantee, registered number 3842316, and was founded in 1988.
There are over 500 subscriber organisations representing a total membership of over 250,000 in addition to individual and
trade supporters. Details can be found at www.fbhvc.co.uk or sent on application to the secretary.
Editorial
Geoff Lancaster
With something over 255,000 members of affiliated clubs it probably wouldn’t surprise you, and it certainly doesn’t
surprise us, that we have our critics and detractors. It’s part of life that these are the inevitably verbose members of the
community. Constructive criticism is valuable feedback and we take it on board and use it to improve the services we
provide. However occasionally, just occasionally, we are reminded that the vast majority of members who are at least aware
of the Federation, recognise the value of the voluntary work we do and particularly in preserving the rights of highway
access to historic vehicle owners. It was therefore enormously encouraging for me to witness several club officials who
independently took the time to visit us at the Classic Motor Show to personally thank us for our work. It was also
encouraging to see such an excellent turnout at Gaydon for Club Expo. We were honoured to be asked to deliver the
keynote address at the symposium and Karl Carter, our trade and skills director spoke to a packed room on the excellent
progress he has made in establishing a nationally accredited modern apprenticeship in historic vehicle restoration. With the
importance of promoting the apprenticeship taking on an ever sharper focus, we have decided to attend the Practical
Classics Restoration Show at the NEC on 12-13 April. Karl will be interviewed on the live stage each day with the latest
news on this exciting initiative.
If you can’t attend the show itself, you can always keep up to date with all the FBHVC news through the website
(www.fbhvc.com) and now thanks to the persistence and vision of communication committee member, Alan Colman, we are
talking directly to social media fans through our own Facebook page. (https://www.facebook.com/messages/fedbhvc). Alan
is a serving officer of the West Midlands Police Motorway Patrol Group, with considerable experience of using social
media. He does however stand absolutely no chance of ever working undercover as his face is familiar to millions as one of
the stars of the TV reality show, Motorway Cops! We’re delighted to have such a media savvy volunteer to lead our foray
into the social media jungle.
And finally, if we really needed convincing that we must be doing something right, Rosy Pugh, our secretary has reported
that we have broken all records for the number of clubs affiliated. Surely good news for the clubs and the Federation.
UK Legislation
Bob Owen
There are a few points of interest this month.
Firstly, the promised exemption Vehicle Excise Duty extension from the end of 1972 to the end of 1973 came into force on
1 April. But it will not be as simple as we might have expected. DVLA appear to have decided that, unlike when the VED
exemption was first introduced, keepers will have to apply for a change of taxation class to ‘historic’ to gain the exemption.
Keepers with unexpired VED on that date will then be able to claim a rebate from the date of notification of the change,
using Form V14.
There is another VED related matter where DVLA have decided to introduce a bit of process just to keep us on our toes. On
1 October, DVLA will cease to issue tax discs, which is of course a good thing.
However, for reasons of avoiding fraud, DVLA have decided that it is now necessary that on any sale of a vehicle with an
unexpired tax disc, the VED registration expires and a new one has to be sought.
DVLA advise that only one third of vehicles sold second-hand actually have unexpired tax discs. But given that a very
significant proportion of the overall sales will be by commercial organisations, such as hire companies and fleet owners,
who tend to sell at the end of a given year of ownership, it seems evident that a much greater proportion of private vehicle
sales, especially of cars, will have an unexpired tax disc. The need for the new keeper to apply at the outset for a new disc
will increase the effort involved in a second-hand vehicle purchase. It is likely that a significant proportion of sales of
historic vehicles will be affected by this change.
You will note I have referred to the tax disc, because DVLA currently say that all vehicles are covered by this need, even if
they are exempt, and no VED is in fact payable. The purpose of the need for the renewal process is not currently clear, as
DVLA will gain knowledge of the new keeper through the V5C transfer process, continuous insurance will be in force and
DVLA has direct knowledge of the existence of an MoT Certificate where one is required for the vehicle. The Federation
has questioned the justification for the proposed process, but at the moment members should be aware of the likelihood that
that is what will happen.
There are two more remote issues, both concerning London, of which you should be aware.
The London Councils are proposing to ban lorries over 18 tons from entering their area if they do not have side bars and
additional mirrors, to enhance cycle safety. The Federation has approached the London Councils to seek assurances that
historic vehicles in London will not be excluded, as they will normally be running in controlled environments where their
cultural difference from modern vehicles will be evident.
There are proposals gradually developing towards an Ultra Low Emission Zone. They have a long way to go, but the
Federation is getting in as early as possible to ensure that historic vehicles are not excluded as they are used so infrequently
and then usually for defined historically related purposes.
Two final EU related points should be raised.
The Roadworthiness Testing Directive is now in final form and we do have the text, which we are analysing. We will then
be ready to engage with the Department for Transport after adoption of the Directive which is still expected to occur in
April.
And finally, we are involved, primarily through FIVA, in investigating the possibility that inclusion of certain chromium
products into the EU REACH Regulations (which concern hazardous chemicals) could make chrome plating difficult or
impossible in the future. We will let you know how this develops.
DVLA
Nigel Harrison
Extension of Historic Vehicle Tax class threshold
On 1 April 2014, the threshold for Historic Vehicle taxation class moved from 1 January 1973 to 1 January 1974. This
means that vehicles made in 1973, or registered in 1973, are now entitled to have the tax class of Historic Vehicle.
However, the conversion from the existing tax class, e.g. PLG, to Historic Vehicle is not automatic. The registered keeper
will have to claim it using the documents detailed below.
If the year of manufacture is not recorded on the V5C, and if the vehicle was registered from 1 January 1974 up to and
including 7 January 1974, DVLA will let you register it as a Historic Vehicle, based on the assumption that the vehicle
would have been made in the previous year.
There is no need to wait until the existing tax has expired, before applying for the Historic Vehicle tax class.
The DVLA information leaflet which explains about the Historic Vehicle tax class is leaflet INF34 that is called Taxing
Historic Vehicles. This will be revised by DVLA to reflect the changes being made. Unfortunately INF34 is not available to
download but can be obtained by ringing 0300 790 6802 or emailing Stores.order@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
Applying for the Historic Vehicle tax class
The following documents will need to be taken to a Motor Tax Post Office:
1. The V5C Registration Certificate. In the change section, put the tax class as Historic Vehicle, and sign and date the V5C.
(Ignore any legacy note relating to DVLA Local Office.)
2. A V10 Application for a Tax Disc. On the form indicate a tax class of Historic Vehicle. (Ignore any note relating to an
insurance certificate requiring to be produced).
Any received V11 Renewal Reminder to Get a Tax Disc form should not be used.
3. MoT Certificate.
The Post Office will retain the V5C and post it onto DVLA in order for them to change the tax class to Historic Vehicle and
issue a new V5C. Subsequent V11 Renewal Reminders should have the tax class of Historic Vehicle.
As with any communication with DVLA or government body, it is suggested that consideration be given to making a
photocopy of all documents that are sent to DVLA.
Refund of Remaining PLG Disc
Once the vehicle has been taxed as a Historic Vehicle, it will be possible to get a refund for each full calendar month left on
the tax disc. A V14 form, which is called Application for a Refund of a Vehicle Tax Disc, should be completed and the PLG
tax disc attached with clear tape to the form, then posted to DVLA. The PLG tax class is used as an example, and the same
will apply to other tax classes.
Missing V5C Registration Certificate Part of the process for claiming the Historic Vehicle tax class is that the V5C needs
to be amended. If the V5C has been lost or mislaid then to get a replacement one it will be necessary to fill in a V62 form.
This form is called Application for a Vehicle Registration Certificate. The current fee for a replacement V5C is £25.
Correction of engine details on a V5C
With the vast majority of tax classes, e.g. PLG, these are dependent on engine size/type. This means that when an engine
change, or correction of the engine details, is notified to DVLA, there needs to be independent verification of the new
engine details before DVLA will accept the change. The Historic Vehicle tax class is one of the few tax classes which is
independent of engine size, so changes in engine size/type are not subject to independent verification by DVLA.
If the engine details on a 1973 vehicle are incorrect, it will be clerically simpler for the owner if the amended details are
notified to DVLA on the new V5C that indicates the tax class of Historic Vehicle, seeing that no independent verification of
engine size/type would then be required.
Incorrectly dated vehicles
There will be a minority of vehicles that were registered in 1974 but were made in 1973 (or earlier), but DVLA does not
have the year of manufacture recorded as 1973 (or earlier). Typically these will be sold off military vehicles, imported
vehicles, vehicles that were slow to sell and hence registered later.
If an owner wants the year of manufacture corrected then there should be contemporary documentary evidence, which
should either be an extract from the manufacturer’s records, which indicates chassis numbers, or an extract from the
appropriate Glass’s Check Book. The Glass’s Check Books come in three versions for cars, commercial vehicles, and
motorcycles. The appropriate specialist vehicle club should be able to assist in providing a copy of the appropriate Glass’s
Check Book, or extract from the manufacturers records, but they could well charge a fee for this service.
Note that a dating letter on its own will not be sufficient to get the year of manufacture corrected. There needs to be
contemporary evidence, which will include a chassis number, or bandwidth of chassis numbers and dating information.
To correct the year of manufacture the documentary evidence and the V5C will need to be sent to DVLA. Only when the
corrected V5C has been issued, will it be possible to go along to the Post Office with the newly issued V5C and claim the
Historic Vehicle tax class.
Historic Vehicles – the small print
The existing usage criterion continues. This is the definition contained in the DVLA leaflet V355/1 called Notes about
Taxation Classes. ‘All vehicles, except buses and goods vehicles used commercially are exempt from vehicle tax if they
were constructed before 1/1/1974. See leaflet INF34.’ If a bus or goods vehicle is used commercially, there is not an
entitlement to apply for the Historic Vehicle tax class.
V765/1 updates
DVLA have asked us to remind clubs listed on the V765/1 that this list is updated every four or five months with
amendments sent in by clubs and is available from www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/old-vehicles. Club contacts do change
and the most recent version should be used.
TYRES
James Fairchild
Over one year into MoT exemption, I thought it might be an opportune moment to mention ‘les chausettes’ as the French
call tyres (translation: socks). For buses and trucks used 'in service', VOSA mandate that the driver does a visual check of
tyres every day. In the case of an historic car that goes out once a month, checking tyres, and various other things, as part of
the prep before pulling off the driveway each time is good practice. The VOSA checks require inspection of tread (to verify
that there is tread, remove any stones etc.) and the visible surfaces (for exposed cords, cracks, etc) as well as checking the
wheel nuts visually.
What are we looking for? Plenty of tread is the obvious thing, but we are also looking for uneven wear patterns and any
cracks, exposed cords or bulges in the side walls as well as things like stones or twigs. It is easy to forget that tyres have two
sidewalls, so get those wheels jacked up and removed so that you can take the tyre off to look at the other sidewall as well
and inspect or clean anything else that is in that area, as well as removing the spare tyre from its cradle.
The other obvious thing is to check the tyre pressure. I find the easiest way to do this is to drive to my local superstore,
which has 'free air' and a machine on which I set the required pressure on a digital display, then connect the airline to the
tyre, and it either blows up or deflates as necessary, giving three beeps when done. Depending on the car, the correct
pressures (which may well be different for front/rear, or for winter/summer, or for empty/full load, or for high speed/lower
speed, or for radial/crossply, or for different tyre sizes, or for different brands of tyre, etc.) should be in your handbook or
manual, or alternatively marque-specific owners clubs may be able to give an opinion of the best pressures for your vehicle.
Remember to blow all five up! If your wheels are inflated with nitrogen, then the pressures still need to be checked, and the
top-up needs to be with nitrogen to maintain the benefits (which I won't go into here). Also recall that tyre pressures are
'cold' pressures.
One other thing to check, which typically gets omitted, is to look at the age of the tyre. Many of us will be familiar with the
tragic case in 2007 of the MGB driver who had bought some 'new old stock' tyres. One of these blew out at speed, and in the
investigations turned out to be over 20 years old. There was also a coach crash in September 2012 where a front tyre on an
Eos coach belonging to the operator MerseyPride blew out and was found to be 19 years old.
All tyres should be stamped on one side or the other with a date code. Tyres manufactured in the 21st century will have four
digits in the format 5212, where the first two digits are the week and the last two the year (so the last week of 2012, in my
example). Tyres manufactured in the 1990s will have three digits and a triangle (where 017 is the first week of 1997) where
tyres manufactured in the 1980s and prior will just have three digits (017 could mean first week of 1987 or first week of
1977). If a tyre doesn't have a code, or it has worn away to the extent it is illegible, then err on the side of common sense
and caution. How old tyres ought to be before replacement will depend on many factors, including a detailed appraisal of
the tyre off the rim, as well as an understanding of the typical use that the vehicle is put to. Clubs may wish to tailor this
advice based on their specific knowledge. On its website Bridgestone says: ‘many tyre companies, including Bridgestone,
warrant their tyres against manufacturing and material defects for five years from the date of manufacture. Based on their
understanding a number of vehicle manufacturers are now advising against the use of tyres that are more than six years old
due to the effects of ageing’. Continental says: ‘Continental recommends that all tyres (including spare tyres) that were
manufactured more than ten (10) years previous be replaced with new tyres, even when tyres appear to be usable from their
external appearance and if the tread depth may have not reached the minimum wear out depth.’ Also bear in mind that
recommendations from manufacturers (whether of tyres or of cars) may apply to current production rather than historic
vehicles.
It is also worth noting that tyres on a vehicle used rarely may actually deteriorate faster, particularly in terms of sidewall
cracks, than those on a car that is daily transport. Naturally, the spare tyre on any car, modern daily transport included, is
also caught by this. The British Tyre Manufacturers Association states ‘Tyres that are used infrequently (e.g. caravans)
and/or in coastal areas will age more quickly’.
In December 2013 VOSA (now DVSA) issued a Recommendation to the bus/coach industry, stating: ‘As a precaution, the
Department for Transport strongly recommends that tyres over 10 years old should not be fitted to the front axles of buses
and coaches. Such tyres should be fitted only to the rear axles of vehicles as part of a twin tyre combination.’ For the benefit
of those not overly familiar with commercial vehicles, ‘twin wheel’ relates to two wheels on each side of the axle (as seen
on the rear axle of virtually all buses, old and new) and ‘single wheel’ relates to one wheel on each side of the axle (as on
virtually all cars).
David Hurley, past chairman of the FBHVC’s legislation committee, suggests that pre-1950 buses/coaches with tubed tyres
have a very low risk of delamination, hence an age limit is disproportionate. Also, vehicles of this age typically have low
maximum speeds.
Vehicles (of all types) that are particularly susceptible to running on old tyres could include those where new tyres of the
correct size/type are no longer available or are prohibitively expensive. Where clubs represent vehicles where this is known
to be a concern, we hope those clubs will go the extra mile to reinforce the points about tyre condition and safety, and
potentially where it is feasible to do so, to have conversations with tyre suppliers about bulk orders or on technical studies to
establish the suitability of alternative sizes on particular models.
It is also worth reminding people that the tyre code contains a letter for the speed rating. Certain tyres may be intended for
plant/machinery, and could have a very low speed rating (example, speed rating B is suitable for a maximum speed of
31mph (the higher the letter the higher the permitted speed). Do bear this in mind when sourcing tyres. If tyres are fitted to a
lower speed rating than the Original Equipment specification for your vehicle, insurance companies may need to be
informed.
Potentially there may be further research into the effects of tyre age (and other factors) in the future. Should the need arise,
we would respond appropriately to any consultation on the issue, seeking that any measure would be proportionate and
appropriate to older vehicles and their owners as well as reminding legislators that solid tyres/cross-ply tyres/tubed tyres are
in regular use within our movement and that different treatment to modern cars doing 70mph (and more) with harsh braking
on a daily basis may be appropriate.
Finally, it is no use in having good condition tyres without considering the rim itself. The Matra Enthusiasts Club report a
known case of a Renault Espace (which has its spare tyre in a cradle below the car, and thus susceptible to salt and muck)
where the spare tyre had literally rusted through. The picture shows your author's Renault Espace series one, which had all
five of its steel wheel rims grit-blasted and powder coated. Whilst wire brushing and painting could be almost as good, the
advantage of grit-blasting is that all of the metal (including crevices) is reached. This cost £13 plus VAT per wheel, then
£10 per wheel to a local tyre fitter for attaching rim to tyre/new valve/balancing, fitting to the car, and removing the next
wheel and splitting it - and yes, I did them all individually due to not being able to find additional spare rims of the correct
profile/pattern/offset. There may be companies around who can offer an inclusive service. Similarly, many companies
advertise alloy wheel refurbishment, but check for precisely what they do first. Again, when inspecting tyres, take off trims,
and remove the wheel itself in order to look at the inner face.
Links:
Bridgestone article http://www.bridgestone.com.au/tyres/passenger/care...
Continental article http://www.tyresforlife.co.uk/www/tyres_for_life_u...
en.html
British Tyre Manufacturers Association http://www.btmauk.com/data/files/Replacing_Car_Tyr...
VOSA Dec 2013 Recommendation https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-...
Although it is from the FBHVC read down as it concerns 'modern' vehicles as well.
Its a bit on the long side but, worth reading right through.
NEWSLETTER
No 1, 2014
President: Lord Montagu of Beaulieu
Chairman: David Whale
Secretary: Rosy Pugh
All correspondence to the secretary at the registered office
Registered office: Stonewold, Berrick Salome
Wallingford, Oxfordshire. OX10 6JR
Telephone & Fax: 01865 400845
Email: secretary@fbhvc.co.uk.
About FBHVC
The Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs exists to uphold the freedom to use old vehicles on the road. It does this by
representing the interests of owners of such vehicles to politicians, government officials, and legislators both in UK and
(through membership of Fédération Internationale des Véhicules Anciens) in Europe.
FBHVC is a company limited by guarantee, registered number 3842316, and was founded in 1988.
There are over 500 subscriber organisations representing a total membership of over 250,000 in addition to individual and
trade supporters. Details can be found at www.fbhvc.co.uk or sent on application to the secretary.
Editorial
Geoff Lancaster
With something over 255,000 members of affiliated clubs it probably wouldn’t surprise you, and it certainly doesn’t
surprise us, that we have our critics and detractors. It’s part of life that these are the inevitably verbose members of the
community. Constructive criticism is valuable feedback and we take it on board and use it to improve the services we
provide. However occasionally, just occasionally, we are reminded that the vast majority of members who are at least aware
of the Federation, recognise the value of the voluntary work we do and particularly in preserving the rights of highway
access to historic vehicle owners. It was therefore enormously encouraging for me to witness several club officials who
independently took the time to visit us at the Classic Motor Show to personally thank us for our work. It was also
encouraging to see such an excellent turnout at Gaydon for Club Expo. We were honoured to be asked to deliver the
keynote address at the symposium and Karl Carter, our trade and skills director spoke to a packed room on the excellent
progress he has made in establishing a nationally accredited modern apprenticeship in historic vehicle restoration. With the
importance of promoting the apprenticeship taking on an ever sharper focus, we have decided to attend the Practical
Classics Restoration Show at the NEC on 12-13 April. Karl will be interviewed on the live stage each day with the latest
news on this exciting initiative.
If you can’t attend the show itself, you can always keep up to date with all the FBHVC news through the website
(www.fbhvc.com) and now thanks to the persistence and vision of communication committee member, Alan Colman, we are
talking directly to social media fans through our own Facebook page. (https://www.facebook.com/messages/fedbhvc). Alan
is a serving officer of the West Midlands Police Motorway Patrol Group, with considerable experience of using social
media. He does however stand absolutely no chance of ever working undercover as his face is familiar to millions as one of
the stars of the TV reality show, Motorway Cops! We’re delighted to have such a media savvy volunteer to lead our foray
into the social media jungle.
And finally, if we really needed convincing that we must be doing something right, Rosy Pugh, our secretary has reported
that we have broken all records for the number of clubs affiliated. Surely good news for the clubs and the Federation.
UK Legislation
Bob Owen
There are a few points of interest this month.
Firstly, the promised exemption Vehicle Excise Duty extension from the end of 1972 to the end of 1973 came into force on
1 April. But it will not be as simple as we might have expected. DVLA appear to have decided that, unlike when the VED
exemption was first introduced, keepers will have to apply for a change of taxation class to ‘historic’ to gain the exemption.
Keepers with unexpired VED on that date will then be able to claim a rebate from the date of notification of the change,
using Form V14.
There is another VED related matter where DVLA have decided to introduce a bit of process just to keep us on our toes. On
1 October, DVLA will cease to issue tax discs, which is of course a good thing.
However, for reasons of avoiding fraud, DVLA have decided that it is now necessary that on any sale of a vehicle with an
unexpired tax disc, the VED registration expires and a new one has to be sought.
DVLA advise that only one third of vehicles sold second-hand actually have unexpired tax discs. But given that a very
significant proportion of the overall sales will be by commercial organisations, such as hire companies and fleet owners,
who tend to sell at the end of a given year of ownership, it seems evident that a much greater proportion of private vehicle
sales, especially of cars, will have an unexpired tax disc. The need for the new keeper to apply at the outset for a new disc
will increase the effort involved in a second-hand vehicle purchase. It is likely that a significant proportion of sales of
historic vehicles will be affected by this change.
You will note I have referred to the tax disc, because DVLA currently say that all vehicles are covered by this need, even if
they are exempt, and no VED is in fact payable. The purpose of the need for the renewal process is not currently clear, as
DVLA will gain knowledge of the new keeper through the V5C transfer process, continuous insurance will be in force and
DVLA has direct knowledge of the existence of an MoT Certificate where one is required for the vehicle. The Federation
has questioned the justification for the proposed process, but at the moment members should be aware of the likelihood that
that is what will happen.
There are two more remote issues, both concerning London, of which you should be aware.
The London Councils are proposing to ban lorries over 18 tons from entering their area if they do not have side bars and
additional mirrors, to enhance cycle safety. The Federation has approached the London Councils to seek assurances that
historic vehicles in London will not be excluded, as they will normally be running in controlled environments where their
cultural difference from modern vehicles will be evident.
There are proposals gradually developing towards an Ultra Low Emission Zone. They have a long way to go, but the
Federation is getting in as early as possible to ensure that historic vehicles are not excluded as they are used so infrequently
and then usually for defined historically related purposes.
Two final EU related points should be raised.
The Roadworthiness Testing Directive is now in final form and we do have the text, which we are analysing. We will then
be ready to engage with the Department for Transport after adoption of the Directive which is still expected to occur in
April.
And finally, we are involved, primarily through FIVA, in investigating the possibility that inclusion of certain chromium
products into the EU REACH Regulations (which concern hazardous chemicals) could make chrome plating difficult or
impossible in the future. We will let you know how this develops.
DVLA
Nigel Harrison
Extension of Historic Vehicle Tax class threshold
On 1 April 2014, the threshold for Historic Vehicle taxation class moved from 1 January 1973 to 1 January 1974. This
means that vehicles made in 1973, or registered in 1973, are now entitled to have the tax class of Historic Vehicle.
However, the conversion from the existing tax class, e.g. PLG, to Historic Vehicle is not automatic. The registered keeper
will have to claim it using the documents detailed below.
If the year of manufacture is not recorded on the V5C, and if the vehicle was registered from 1 January 1974 up to and
including 7 January 1974, DVLA will let you register it as a Historic Vehicle, based on the assumption that the vehicle
would have been made in the previous year.
There is no need to wait until the existing tax has expired, before applying for the Historic Vehicle tax class.
The DVLA information leaflet which explains about the Historic Vehicle tax class is leaflet INF34 that is called Taxing
Historic Vehicles. This will be revised by DVLA to reflect the changes being made. Unfortunately INF34 is not available to
download but can be obtained by ringing 0300 790 6802 or emailing Stores.order@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
Applying for the Historic Vehicle tax class
The following documents will need to be taken to a Motor Tax Post Office:
1. The V5C Registration Certificate. In the change section, put the tax class as Historic Vehicle, and sign and date the V5C.
(Ignore any legacy note relating to DVLA Local Office.)
2. A V10 Application for a Tax Disc. On the form indicate a tax class of Historic Vehicle. (Ignore any note relating to an
insurance certificate requiring to be produced).
Any received V11 Renewal Reminder to Get a Tax Disc form should not be used.
3. MoT Certificate.
The Post Office will retain the V5C and post it onto DVLA in order for them to change the tax class to Historic Vehicle and
issue a new V5C. Subsequent V11 Renewal Reminders should have the tax class of Historic Vehicle.
As with any communication with DVLA or government body, it is suggested that consideration be given to making a
photocopy of all documents that are sent to DVLA.
Refund of Remaining PLG Disc
Once the vehicle has been taxed as a Historic Vehicle, it will be possible to get a refund for each full calendar month left on
the tax disc. A V14 form, which is called Application for a Refund of a Vehicle Tax Disc, should be completed and the PLG
tax disc attached with clear tape to the form, then posted to DVLA. The PLG tax class is used as an example, and the same
will apply to other tax classes.
Missing V5C Registration Certificate Part of the process for claiming the Historic Vehicle tax class is that the V5C needs
to be amended. If the V5C has been lost or mislaid then to get a replacement one it will be necessary to fill in a V62 form.
This form is called Application for a Vehicle Registration Certificate. The current fee for a replacement V5C is £25.
Correction of engine details on a V5C
With the vast majority of tax classes, e.g. PLG, these are dependent on engine size/type. This means that when an engine
change, or correction of the engine details, is notified to DVLA, there needs to be independent verification of the new
engine details before DVLA will accept the change. The Historic Vehicle tax class is one of the few tax classes which is
independent of engine size, so changes in engine size/type are not subject to independent verification by DVLA.
If the engine details on a 1973 vehicle are incorrect, it will be clerically simpler for the owner if the amended details are
notified to DVLA on the new V5C that indicates the tax class of Historic Vehicle, seeing that no independent verification of
engine size/type would then be required.
Incorrectly dated vehicles
There will be a minority of vehicles that were registered in 1974 but were made in 1973 (or earlier), but DVLA does not
have the year of manufacture recorded as 1973 (or earlier). Typically these will be sold off military vehicles, imported
vehicles, vehicles that were slow to sell and hence registered later.
If an owner wants the year of manufacture corrected then there should be contemporary documentary evidence, which
should either be an extract from the manufacturer’s records, which indicates chassis numbers, or an extract from the
appropriate Glass’s Check Book. The Glass’s Check Books come in three versions for cars, commercial vehicles, and
motorcycles. The appropriate specialist vehicle club should be able to assist in providing a copy of the appropriate Glass’s
Check Book, or extract from the manufacturers records, but they could well charge a fee for this service.
Note that a dating letter on its own will not be sufficient to get the year of manufacture corrected. There needs to be
contemporary evidence, which will include a chassis number, or bandwidth of chassis numbers and dating information.
To correct the year of manufacture the documentary evidence and the V5C will need to be sent to DVLA. Only when the
corrected V5C has been issued, will it be possible to go along to the Post Office with the newly issued V5C and claim the
Historic Vehicle tax class.
Historic Vehicles – the small print
The existing usage criterion continues. This is the definition contained in the DVLA leaflet V355/1 called Notes about
Taxation Classes. ‘All vehicles, except buses and goods vehicles used commercially are exempt from vehicle tax if they
were constructed before 1/1/1974. See leaflet INF34.’ If a bus or goods vehicle is used commercially, there is not an
entitlement to apply for the Historic Vehicle tax class.
V765/1 updates
DVLA have asked us to remind clubs listed on the V765/1 that this list is updated every four or five months with
amendments sent in by clubs and is available from www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/old-vehicles. Club contacts do change
and the most recent version should be used.
TYRES
James Fairchild
Over one year into MoT exemption, I thought it might be an opportune moment to mention ‘les chausettes’ as the French
call tyres (translation: socks). For buses and trucks used 'in service', VOSA mandate that the driver does a visual check of
tyres every day. In the case of an historic car that goes out once a month, checking tyres, and various other things, as part of
the prep before pulling off the driveway each time is good practice. The VOSA checks require inspection of tread (to verify
that there is tread, remove any stones etc.) and the visible surfaces (for exposed cords, cracks, etc) as well as checking the
wheel nuts visually.
What are we looking for? Plenty of tread is the obvious thing, but we are also looking for uneven wear patterns and any
cracks, exposed cords or bulges in the side walls as well as things like stones or twigs. It is easy to forget that tyres have two
sidewalls, so get those wheels jacked up and removed so that you can take the tyre off to look at the other sidewall as well
and inspect or clean anything else that is in that area, as well as removing the spare tyre from its cradle.
The other obvious thing is to check the tyre pressure. I find the easiest way to do this is to drive to my local superstore,
which has 'free air' and a machine on which I set the required pressure on a digital display, then connect the airline to the
tyre, and it either blows up or deflates as necessary, giving three beeps when done. Depending on the car, the correct
pressures (which may well be different for front/rear, or for winter/summer, or for empty/full load, or for high speed/lower
speed, or for radial/crossply, or for different tyre sizes, or for different brands of tyre, etc.) should be in your handbook or
manual, or alternatively marque-specific owners clubs may be able to give an opinion of the best pressures for your vehicle.
Remember to blow all five up! If your wheels are inflated with nitrogen, then the pressures still need to be checked, and the
top-up needs to be with nitrogen to maintain the benefits (which I won't go into here). Also recall that tyre pressures are
'cold' pressures.
One other thing to check, which typically gets omitted, is to look at the age of the tyre. Many of us will be familiar with the
tragic case in 2007 of the MGB driver who had bought some 'new old stock' tyres. One of these blew out at speed, and in the
investigations turned out to be over 20 years old. There was also a coach crash in September 2012 where a front tyre on an
Eos coach belonging to the operator MerseyPride blew out and was found to be 19 years old.
All tyres should be stamped on one side or the other with a date code. Tyres manufactured in the 21st century will have four
digits in the format 5212, where the first two digits are the week and the last two the year (so the last week of 2012, in my
example). Tyres manufactured in the 1990s will have three digits and a triangle (where 017 is the first week of 1997) where
tyres manufactured in the 1980s and prior will just have three digits (017 could mean first week of 1987 or first week of
1977). If a tyre doesn't have a code, or it has worn away to the extent it is illegible, then err on the side of common sense
and caution. How old tyres ought to be before replacement will depend on many factors, including a detailed appraisal of
the tyre off the rim, as well as an understanding of the typical use that the vehicle is put to. Clubs may wish to tailor this
advice based on their specific knowledge. On its website Bridgestone says: ‘many tyre companies, including Bridgestone,
warrant their tyres against manufacturing and material defects for five years from the date of manufacture. Based on their
understanding a number of vehicle manufacturers are now advising against the use of tyres that are more than six years old
due to the effects of ageing’. Continental says: ‘Continental recommends that all tyres (including spare tyres) that were
manufactured more than ten (10) years previous be replaced with new tyres, even when tyres appear to be usable from their
external appearance and if the tread depth may have not reached the minimum wear out depth.’ Also bear in mind that
recommendations from manufacturers (whether of tyres or of cars) may apply to current production rather than historic
vehicles.
It is also worth noting that tyres on a vehicle used rarely may actually deteriorate faster, particularly in terms of sidewall
cracks, than those on a car that is daily transport. Naturally, the spare tyre on any car, modern daily transport included, is
also caught by this. The British Tyre Manufacturers Association states ‘Tyres that are used infrequently (e.g. caravans)
and/or in coastal areas will age more quickly’.
In December 2013 VOSA (now DVSA) issued a Recommendation to the bus/coach industry, stating: ‘As a precaution, the
Department for Transport strongly recommends that tyres over 10 years old should not be fitted to the front axles of buses
and coaches. Such tyres should be fitted only to the rear axles of vehicles as part of a twin tyre combination.’ For the benefit
of those not overly familiar with commercial vehicles, ‘twin wheel’ relates to two wheels on each side of the axle (as seen
on the rear axle of virtually all buses, old and new) and ‘single wheel’ relates to one wheel on each side of the axle (as on
virtually all cars).
David Hurley, past chairman of the FBHVC’s legislation committee, suggests that pre-1950 buses/coaches with tubed tyres
have a very low risk of delamination, hence an age limit is disproportionate. Also, vehicles of this age typically have low
maximum speeds.
Vehicles (of all types) that are particularly susceptible to running on old tyres could include those where new tyres of the
correct size/type are no longer available or are prohibitively expensive. Where clubs represent vehicles where this is known
to be a concern, we hope those clubs will go the extra mile to reinforce the points about tyre condition and safety, and
potentially where it is feasible to do so, to have conversations with tyre suppliers about bulk orders or on technical studies to
establish the suitability of alternative sizes on particular models.
It is also worth reminding people that the tyre code contains a letter for the speed rating. Certain tyres may be intended for
plant/machinery, and could have a very low speed rating (example, speed rating B is suitable for a maximum speed of
31mph (the higher the letter the higher the permitted speed). Do bear this in mind when sourcing tyres. If tyres are fitted to a
lower speed rating than the Original Equipment specification for your vehicle, insurance companies may need to be
informed.
Potentially there may be further research into the effects of tyre age (and other factors) in the future. Should the need arise,
we would respond appropriately to any consultation on the issue, seeking that any measure would be proportionate and
appropriate to older vehicles and their owners as well as reminding legislators that solid tyres/cross-ply tyres/tubed tyres are
in regular use within our movement and that different treatment to modern cars doing 70mph (and more) with harsh braking
on a daily basis may be appropriate.
Finally, it is no use in having good condition tyres without considering the rim itself. The Matra Enthusiasts Club report a
known case of a Renault Espace (which has its spare tyre in a cradle below the car, and thus susceptible to salt and muck)
where the spare tyre had literally rusted through. The picture shows your author's Renault Espace series one, which had all
five of its steel wheel rims grit-blasted and powder coated. Whilst wire brushing and painting could be almost as good, the
advantage of grit-blasting is that all of the metal (including crevices) is reached. This cost £13 plus VAT per wheel, then
£10 per wheel to a local tyre fitter for attaching rim to tyre/new valve/balancing, fitting to the car, and removing the next
wheel and splitting it - and yes, I did them all individually due to not being able to find additional spare rims of the correct
profile/pattern/offset. There may be companies around who can offer an inclusive service. Similarly, many companies
advertise alloy wheel refurbishment, but check for precisely what they do first. Again, when inspecting tyres, take off trims,
and remove the wheel itself in order to look at the inner face.
Links:
Bridgestone article http://www.bridgestone.com.au/tyres/passenger/care...
Continental article http://www.tyresforlife.co.uk/www/tyres_for_life_u...
en.html
British Tyre Manufacturers Association http://www.btmauk.com/data/files/Replacing_Car_Tyr...
VOSA Dec 2013 Recommendation https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-...
It would appear that absolutely zero progress has been achieved in the last two years and we are still in a state of severe consternation as to what the future holds for the struggling British Car scene.
Following :- see previous report from 2012,
.Federation British Historic Vintage Clubs,
After attending the Annual General meeting of the FBHVC on Oct19th 2012, I returned home with a feeling of disappointment and the uncomfortable notion that the federation followers of both hobby and industry needed a sharp infusion of new blood with a much more aggressive, enquiring and flexible approach, there was too much of the: - “Sleep walking into oblivion” attitude about the assembly present at the meeting. On a number of occasions I noticed grimaces of disapproval when certain facts were mentioned for example: - up-grade modifications, modernizing technical specifications to take advantage of current conditions and the legislation involving the substitution of obsolete components where replacements were unavailable.
I am aware of situations where components satisfied the expectations and legal requirements of the time but with the march of progress, no longer were capable of meeting the stringent percentage figures laid down under current EU directives (disc hand brakes are a good example) Therefore it is important to monitor these limitations and fight with resolve to maintain the flexibilities allowing owners to operate rather than terminate their vehicles. It is now accepted that politicians and lobbyist will always say:-“We cannot discuss individual cases “, but this is the great stumbling block, this is where we need the technical background more than the administrator/lobbyist to breakdown this “One rule fits all “which is so prevalent in the majority of EU Directives. We need to obtain a specific technical representative with a wide spectrum of hands-on product knowledge to cover this aspect of the Historic and Special Interest vehicles.
There appeared to be a distinct attitude more in keeping with the curator of a museum than a group whose main purpose was to enjoy the ownership of a classic car, . If this organization is to prosper in the future the need to attract new membership is paramount but without broadening the clubs avenue’s of interest and tolerance this will be difficult to achieve .
As the federation is purporting to be the official representative of Great Britain in respect of special interest vehicles, but who will oversee the interest of enthusiasts who are engaged in Custom- cars, Hot-Rods, Cruisers, and kit-car replica’s in fact any non-standard vehicle. We cannot have a mixed assortment of official bodies all vying for attention and claiming their own particular area of expertise is at the top of the importance table ,all of these factions have to be incorporated under one flag.
At one point I felt obliged to offer the suggestion that a JENSON SP Interceptor (440ci V8 mopar) 6 pack (twin 4 barrel carburetor) with manual transmission could be considered a classic or a Hot-Rod depending on your base of operations, the days of the cloth-cap and string backs have given way to the approved crash helmet so we must learn to share each others fight to exist.
The other bone of contention was the question of the federation acceptance of the FIVA :- " Charter of Turin“ which in its present form is far from being acceptable to any skilled intelligent British motor enthusiast, It appears to have been written by someone that has read a few books on DIY car restoration and been employed in the archives of a museums transport department It is so far from reality as to be actually destructive, restrictive and detrimental to the whole motorist movement in the British Isles .
The Federation must ensure that the consultation period is strictly monitored and sufficiently controlled to prevent this charter being prematurely rubber stamped into legislation before it is properly scrutinized by all 27 EU nations.
Following :- see previous report from 2012,
.Federation British Historic Vintage Clubs,
After attending the Annual General meeting of the FBHVC on Oct19th 2012, I returned home with a feeling of disappointment and the uncomfortable notion that the federation followers of both hobby and industry needed a sharp infusion of new blood with a much more aggressive, enquiring and flexible approach, there was too much of the: - “Sleep walking into oblivion” attitude about the assembly present at the meeting. On a number of occasions I noticed grimaces of disapproval when certain facts were mentioned for example: - up-grade modifications, modernizing technical specifications to take advantage of current conditions and the legislation involving the substitution of obsolete components where replacements were unavailable.
I am aware of situations where components satisfied the expectations and legal requirements of the time but with the march of progress, no longer were capable of meeting the stringent percentage figures laid down under current EU directives (disc hand brakes are a good example) Therefore it is important to monitor these limitations and fight with resolve to maintain the flexibilities allowing owners to operate rather than terminate their vehicles. It is now accepted that politicians and lobbyist will always say:-“We cannot discuss individual cases “, but this is the great stumbling block, this is where we need the technical background more than the administrator/lobbyist to breakdown this “One rule fits all “which is so prevalent in the majority of EU Directives. We need to obtain a specific technical representative with a wide spectrum of hands-on product knowledge to cover this aspect of the Historic and Special Interest vehicles.
There appeared to be a distinct attitude more in keeping with the curator of a museum than a group whose main purpose was to enjoy the ownership of a classic car, . If this organization is to prosper in the future the need to attract new membership is paramount but without broadening the clubs avenue’s of interest and tolerance this will be difficult to achieve .
As the federation is purporting to be the official representative of Great Britain in respect of special interest vehicles, but who will oversee the interest of enthusiasts who are engaged in Custom- cars, Hot-Rods, Cruisers, and kit-car replica’s in fact any non-standard vehicle. We cannot have a mixed assortment of official bodies all vying for attention and claiming their own particular area of expertise is at the top of the importance table ,all of these factions have to be incorporated under one flag.
At one point I felt obliged to offer the suggestion that a JENSON SP Interceptor (440ci V8 mopar) 6 pack (twin 4 barrel carburetor) with manual transmission could be considered a classic or a Hot-Rod depending on your base of operations, the days of the cloth-cap and string backs have given way to the approved crash helmet so we must learn to share each others fight to exist.
The other bone of contention was the question of the federation acceptance of the FIVA :- " Charter of Turin“ which in its present form is far from being acceptable to any skilled intelligent British motor enthusiast, It appears to have been written by someone that has read a few books on DIY car restoration and been employed in the archives of a museums transport department It is so far from reality as to be actually destructive, restrictive and detrimental to the whole motorist movement in the British Isles .
The Federation must ensure that the consultation period is strictly monitored and sufficiently controlled to prevent this charter being prematurely rubber stamped into legislation before it is properly scrutinized by all 27 EU nations.
I cannot work out if these are your words or you are quoting another party?
Whatever, it was all going swimmingly until:
Whatever, it was all going swimmingly until:
rolymo said:
Following :- see previous report from 2012,
I felt obliged to offer the suggestion that a JENSON SP Interceptor (440ci V8 mopar) 6 pack (twin 4 barrel carburetor) with manual transmission could be considered a classic or a Hot-Rod depending on your base of operations,
Whoever wrote this has such a lamentable lack of knowledge of the vehicle that he is quoting that of course the rest is probably just as ill-conceived. Jenson? 6 pack (twin 4 barrel carburetor) (the "6" may give you a clue?), and manual transmission?I felt obliged to offer the suggestion that a JENSON SP Interceptor (440ci V8 mopar) 6 pack (twin 4 barrel carburetor) with manual transmission could be considered a classic or a Hot-Rod depending on your base of operations,
Jensen Vs Hot-rod,
I would like to thank you most profusely for making my point far more eloquently than I did . How ? by adopting the typical attitude of :- I am no damn “Hot-rodder”.
Every time one mentions the gentleman’s carriage (Jenson) in the same sentence as Americas favourite ride we get this reaction, which was exactly my point we have to forget this form of discrimination and all join together in this fight for survival against the EU.
My emphasise on mechanical modifications was directed at making the point not being historical accurate and that a concerted overall effort was going to be required to contest/combat this new threat which it appeared was not going to happen due to there being a distinct lack of representation in the room covering large sections of the hobby/sport/industry ? Plus those present appeared to be “clickie” too the extreme.
Having been the proprietor of a leading Rolling Road Diagnostic business from 1964 to 1975 (owner operated) in the era of the thunder-saloons and drag-racing I have probably seen more multi -choke compound type carb set-ups than you have had hot dinners so go easy on the “snidey innuendoes”.
I would like to thank you most profusely for making my point far more eloquently than I did . How ? by adopting the typical attitude of :- I am no damn “Hot-rodder”.
Every time one mentions the gentleman’s carriage (Jenson) in the same sentence as Americas favourite ride we get this reaction, which was exactly my point we have to forget this form of discrimination and all join together in this fight for survival against the EU.
My emphasise on mechanical modifications was directed at making the point not being historical accurate and that a concerted overall effort was going to be required to contest/combat this new threat which it appeared was not going to happen due to there being a distinct lack of representation in the room covering large sections of the hobby/sport/industry ? Plus those present appeared to be “clickie” too the extreme.
Having been the proprietor of a leading Rolling Road Diagnostic business from 1964 to 1975 (owner operated) in the era of the thunder-saloons and drag-racing I have probably seen more multi -choke compound type carb set-ups than you have had hot dinners so go easy on the “snidey innuendoes”.
rolymo said:
Having been the proprietor of a leading Rolling Road Diagnostic business from 1964 to 1975 (owner operated) in the era of the thunder-saloons and drag-racing I have probably seen more multi -choke compound type carb set-ups than you have had hot dinners so go easy on the “snidey innuendoes”.
rolymo said:
SP Interceptor (440ci V8 mopar) 6 pack (twin 4 barrel carburetor)
So, this experience led you to explain that a Jensen SP 6-pack has (in brackets) twin four-barrel carburettors?And not (perhaps) three two-barrel carburettors? (Which is where the 6 in 6-pack come from.)
Maybe.
Now that the mocking has stopped can we get back to protecting ourselves against the EU invasion and other international intrigues such as :- Have you heard that a resent US Gov’t sponsored survey has discovered that Ethanol fuel additive is a total waste of time, both from the cost effective angle or the beneficial effect on clean air /emissions etc. EPA ratings of 7to 9%worse than conventional fossil fuels is not exactly what was intended to meet CARB regulations.
Having now obtained accurate statistics does the EU parliament intend to pursue its current policy and increase additive content from 5 to 10%in the near future ?. Guess we will have to ask the FBHVC the answer {weren’t they doing a survey or something, never did get to hear the outcome ?.) Last I heard they screwed up big time and had to start the tests all over again.
Next ,two of the worlds leading scientists, qualified , accredited and internationally accepted as leaders in their field as advisers on climate change have resigned and stood down with immediate effect as a result of their disenchantment at the revision of their report summited to IPPCC to reflect Gov’t policy rather than real-time facts.
Does this mean we can expect a U-turn by the EU on such things as CO2 emissions, green energy and congestion/pollution ? I doubt they will even know or will choose to ignore the news because it conflicts with the implementation of carbon tax ? Do you want the EU !! Better make your mind up
Photo :- Answer to transport problem ? free on the NHS for none smokers.
Having now obtained accurate statistics does the EU parliament intend to pursue its current policy and increase additive content from 5 to 10%in the near future ?. Guess we will have to ask the FBHVC the answer {weren’t they doing a survey or something, never did get to hear the outcome ?.) Last I heard they screwed up big time and had to start the tests all over again.
Next ,two of the worlds leading scientists, qualified , accredited and internationally accepted as leaders in their field as advisers on climate change have resigned and stood down with immediate effect as a result of their disenchantment at the revision of their report summited to IPPCC to reflect Gov’t policy rather than real-time facts.
Does this mean we can expect a U-turn by the EU on such things as CO2 emissions, green energy and congestion/pollution ? I doubt they will even know or will choose to ignore the news because it conflicts with the implementation of carbon tax ? Do you want the EU !! Better make your mind up
Photo :- Answer to transport problem ? free on the NHS for none smokers.
Have you seen the discussion in the "Guardian" about Nigel Farage telling fibs over the MOT situation yesterday and today, where the transport minister tries to take the credit for " Standing up for Britain" and saving the day for motorists, Some chance ! now who is telling fibs? What about "The Charter of Turin"? (Nearly 1000 comments in 24 hours) 
I seem to remember the COT being the subject of a hugely long thread some time ago. I also seem to remember many sticking their heads in the sand proclaiming "It'll never happen. Relax, take it easy. Just ignore it."
The FBHVC, mention it, who incidentally were 100% behind the proposals in the charter from their EU brethren FIVA, and completely U turned to see the light, and suddenly it's being taken a bit more seriously.
FFS, how bad has the smell of s
t gotta get before you clean the drains.
The FBHVC, mention it, who incidentally were 100% behind the proposals in the charter from their EU brethren FIVA, and completely U turned to see the light, and suddenly it's being taken a bit more seriously.
FFS, how bad has the smell of s
t gotta get before you clean the drains. T0nup said:
I seem to remember the COT being the subject of a hugely long thread some time ago. I also seem to remember many sticking their heads in the sand proclaiming "It'll never happen. Relax, take it easy. Just ignore it."
The FBHVC, mention it, who incidentally were 100% behind the proposals in the charter from their EU brethren FIVA, and completely U turned to see the light, and suddenly it's being taken a bit more seriously.
FFS, how bad has the smell of st gotta get before you clean the drains.
Until fairly recently I've been including items from the FBHVC Newsletter in my club's magazine which I edit. I included my opinion of the CoT and soon afterwards read a comment from the federation that people had got the wrong end of the stick about what the charter entailed and how it would impact of our classic car interest.The FBHVC, mention it, who incidentally were 100% behind the proposals in the charter from their EU brethren FIVA, and completely U turned to see the light, and suddenly it's being taken a bit more seriously.
FFS, how bad has the smell of s
t gotta get before you clean the drains. I suggested to the FBHVC that their website incorporate a forum (I even offered to moderate it) so that such topics could be debated. That idea fell on deaf ears.
I no longer include excerpts from the newsletter in the club's magazine.
The club I belong to actually joined the FBHVC so that we could voice our concerns of the Charter's potential from within the organisation. Some very heated letters were exchanged,(The secretary loved us... Not.) though I guess we should have known we were banging our head against a brick wall... At the time half the FBHVC committee were also hand in glove with FIVA.
Also exchanged emails with one of the FIVA cronies. Can't recall his name now, but he actually offered to come over and explain the Charter to the club. To make it worth his while, I contacted the VBOA so that he could at least explain it to the committees of maybe 30 or more clubs at once. They jumped at the chance... Just a shame that emails to the FIVA chap were ignored from then on... There's a hint at the integrity of that organisation. The FBHVC are no better in my opinion.
Also exchanged emails with one of the FIVA cronies. Can't recall his name now, but he actually offered to come over and explain the Charter to the club. To make it worth his while, I contacted the VBOA so that he could at least explain it to the committees of maybe 30 or more clubs at once. They jumped at the chance... Just a shame that emails to the FIVA chap were ignored from then on... There's a hint at the integrity of that organisation. The FBHVC are no better in my opinion.
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