VW Cheating Emissions tests in the US?

VW Cheating Emissions tests in the US?

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Discussion

Jam12321

Original Poster:

164 posts

109 months

Monday 21st September 2015
quotequote all
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-21/...

Pretty grim reading and if proved true an outrageous cover-up.

Thoughts?

GTEYE

2,092 posts

209 months

Monday 21st September 2015
quotequote all
The fines apparently could be in the order of $18 billion...

And who knows, perhaps welcome back Ferdinand Piech?



Edited by GTEYE on Friday 25th September 14:45

e635815

379 posts

187 months

Monday 21st September 2015
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It is apparently real. Martin Winterkorn has pleaded guilty and will cooperate with the US government.
The Koreans are no requesting the same checks to be performed in their country.
The German government asked the same from VW.
Their stock has lost 20% today in Frankfort.
Martin's days are numbered it seems.

Cotic

469 posts

151 months

Monday 21st September 2015
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This was all over the international news this weekend, but not very well published in the UK motoring press until today (Monday). There are a number of points to be made here, and I'll be keen to watch the fall-out from this unfold.

1) VW have now admitted that they've deceived the pubic and legislators on this, so it was clearly an effort to achieve the emissions test figures without either using urea injection (as Mercedes and others), or a detriment to performance (everyone else). This was a big gamble on VW's part to save costs, and build US market sector. It appears to have massively backfired.
2) The vehicles are being recalled to remove the 'defeat device', which will presumably ensure that the low emission measures will be active at all times. I would expect this to have a detrimental affect on the vehicle's performance and/or economy - those customers will not be happy bunnies when they get their cars back...
3) It's highly unlikely that the fine will be $18bn - I would expect 'only' $2bn in order to keep the politicians out of the discussions; however the goodwill which will need to be paid to customers (buy-back, litigation, etc), and the costs of the recall itself will be massive.
4) This will of course heavily damage VW's reputation in the US, but unfortunately may also damage the fledgling diesel market in the US for all manufacturers. There are many in the US who would love a European diesel wagon; but if the overall sales are hit it may deter manufacturers from developing diesels for the states.

I imagine there's an engine software development manager in Germany who's soon to be looking for employment, or even a very good lawyer.

Iamnotkloot

1,395 posts

146 months

Tuesday 22nd September 2015
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Questions will be asked about other manufacturers doing the same. If that holds true then it could be the end of diesel - I don't believe that's hyperbole, it was already under pressure from LPT petrol's and nascent electric/hybrid.

For sure, Apple and Google will be watching with interest - if they get serious they could dominate the market pretty quickly and VW will have led the decay of traditional car manufacturers.

zebra

4,555 posts

213 months

Tuesday 22nd September 2015
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Massive thread already running here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

WJNB

2,637 posts

160 months

Tuesday 22nd September 2015
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Serves VW right & I hope this will destroy the company.
Germany as a nation may well wince with embarrassment given it's reputation for dictatorial attitudes especially more recently when accusing the likes of Greece for corruption.
World domination even in the form of the market share of a car manufacturer sits very uncomfortably in the minds of many.

3304hl

31 posts

146 months

Tuesday 22nd September 2015
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I have to say I think this is going to cost them waaay more than $18B.


1 - maybe not the statutory $37K per car, but it will be significant.
2- they’re going to have to make the cars compliant. $1000+ per car?
3 - can’t be made compliant? forced buy back. - $????
4 - this is the U.S. we’re talking about here. There will be a class action law suit. Can you say punitive damages?
5 - I’d be willing to bet that with the share price down 40%, there might be a few investors considering legal action about now. See #4
6 - the state of Lower Saxony still owns 20% of VW. It's just a guess, but I bet there will be a few charges, suits, & fines coming from the “Fatherland” as well.
7 - So they pay the fines, settle the suits, fix/replace the cars; think the U.S.Feds are done with them at that point? Criminal charges are a ‘coming round the bend....

This whole year would make a terrific tragic opera. From the beginning of the year and the board fight between Winterkorn and mentor Ferdinand Piëch being decided in Winterkorn's favor, through falling oil prices, this cheating scandal, and ending with him being fired just 4 days before he was to receive his shiny new contract.
Icarus, your table's ready...


dang2407

496 posts

107 months

Tuesday 22nd September 2015
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Firstly all manufacturers do it. Secondly it includes petrol cars.
It's all been going on since the early 90s if not earlier.
I bet Mr VW p_ssed off somebody in the US and they decided to blow the whistle in retaliation. Wakeup Mr EPA Dude, all you home-brew manufacturers are also cheating!

DeltaEvo2

868 posts

191 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2015
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Das Auto...Das cheating software biggrin

Oh...let me recap:

The German Government knew about it but in the meantime they were happily lecturing the Greeks on honesty, banking, business...

KARMA! wink


Edited by DeltaEvo2 on Wednesday 23 September 10:02

A Scotsman

1,000 posts

198 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2015
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I wonder if this will have an impact on both new and used prices?

thecleverbit

40 posts

141 months

Thursday 24th September 2015
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The thing concerning me as the owner of a Seat Leon FR Diesel is what the remedy will be. If there are remaps required to correct the issue, this is likely to to cripple the cars power output to a certain extent. That would then mean the car wasn't what I had purchased and I had been misled and missold the car. Would that then mean that under UK law I, and others could be able to return the car to the manufacturer and demand a refund? That aside, surely the emissions figures constitute a breach of contract in itself?

I'm 6 months into a 3 year PCP on mine, it's ok to drive, not unhappy with the car in general, but in the light of this, I'm not so sure I want to be driving it! I swapped from an older Boxster to an oil burner to try and do some good for the environment. So what I'm now finding out, is that my old Porker was probably no worse for the environment... I like to think of myself as an ethical person, having already returned a TT this year for a long list of issues, I probably will push to return this one too if I can and go elsewhere.

I do wonder which manufacturer, if any I can trust. I might just go back to bangernomics and buy a shed with a 3 or 4 litre lump and drive it till it drops. Feeling quite frustrated right now!

Chops45

60 posts

204 months

Tuesday 29th September 2015
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If VW where cheating on the emissions then it follows that they where also cheating on the car tax, ie if they say a car is in one band say band D that car driven on the road might have been band E and should have been paying a higher road fund tax.

Escort Si-130

3,269 posts

179 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
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Nope other manufacturers haven't been doing this type. Bosch also said they clearly told VW if they use this software for road going vehicles it would be ILLEGAL and they would not be held responsible.
VW clearly knew what they were doing and deserve the book thrown at them imo.

dang2407 said:
Firstly all manufacturers do it. Secondly it includes petrol cars.
It's all been going on since the early 90s if not earlier.
I bet Mr VW p_ssed off somebody in the US and they decided to blow the whistle in retaliation. Wakeup Mr EPA Dude, all you home-brew manufacturers are also cheating!

Escort Si-130

3,269 posts

179 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
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FORD EMISSIONS COMMITMENT
Given the worldwide attention and news coverage related to diesel emissions tests, we at Ford want to make sure our position on these key issues is clear.
First, our vehicles and engines – including our advanced-technology diesel engines – meet all applicable emissions requirements. Importantly, we do not have any so‑called “defeat devices” in our vehicles.
We also fully support efforts to ensure that test procedures more closely match the real‑world conditions that customers experience under normal driving. That is why we have supported the development of a European Real Driving Emissions initiative that is going into law in Europe.
Ford is committed to offering customers high fuel efficiency and low emissions through what we call the “power of choice.” We offer a variety of choices ranging from our EcoBoost-powered petrol vehicles and advanced technology diesels to hybrids, plug-in hybrids and full electric vehicles.
Visit www.ford.co.uk or your local FordStore or Ford dealer to learn more about Ford’s newest vehicles, technology and our commitment to Go Further.
Jim Farley

Executive Vice President, Europe, Middle East and Africa
Ford Motor Company

Escort Si-130

3,269 posts

179 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
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For the VW fan boys biggrin



Foppo

2,344 posts

123 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
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If that is the case Samuel VW deserves to be punished.Why waste all that engineering talent V.W have on cheating the system.

V.W Could have gone the hybrid way but is this some kind of German arrogance we know best.They didn't and made a rod for their own back to get out of this.The top brass at V.W gave the order and got what they wanted.

Mistrale

195 posts

142 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
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Escort Si-130 said:
Look at this video from last from 1:15 onwards - the badge on the engine suggests it's NOT just VW doing this!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pjUr3RQRERM

Mistrale

195 posts

142 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
quotequote all
Escort Si-130 said:
Look at this video from last from 1:15 onwards - the badge on the engine suggests it's NOT just VW doing this!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pjUr3RQRERM

Mistrale

195 posts

142 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
quotequote all
Escort Si-130 said:
Nope other manufacturers haven't been doing this type. Bosch also said they clearly told VW if they use this software for road going vehicles it would be ILLEGAL and they would not be held responsible.
VW clearly knew what they were doing and deserve the book thrown at them imo.
Look at this video from Newsnight in November last year - from 1:15 onwards. From the cam cover, it looks like VW are NOT the only ones doing this........