Paul Bailey's 918 Spyder involved in crash at motor show

[dr_gn]

D

JKDesign80 said:

deltashad said:

dr_gn said:

I'm intrigued by the "charity" aspect of this (it was reported as such and presumably people pay for a ride?). I mean, how much - in the name of charity - would it cost to get that thing to Malta and back in the first place?

Possibly he was in Malta on holiday and decided to take part?

Here's a Interview with him before the accident, which explains why he took part...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2015/oct/05...

That makes no sense to me: transporting four cars from the UK to Malta "for charity"?

[hornetrider]

dr_gn said:

That makes no sense to me: transporting four cars from the UK to Malta "for charity"?

Let me help you out. There is a charity event in Malta. He brings his cars out of the kindness of his heart. Money is then raised from people attending the event, which goes to charity. The end.

Difficult concept to grasp, granted.

[spikeyhead]

I hope that all the injured make a full and swift recovery.

[dr_gn]

UC

hornetrider said:

dr_gn said:

That makes no sense to me: transporting four cars from the UK to Malta "for charity"?

Let me help you out. There is a charity event in Malta. He brings his cars out of the kindness of his heart. Money is then raised from people attending the event, which goes to charity. The end.

Difficult concept to grasp, granted.

Transporting 4 cars worth >£3m about 4000miles, plus flights to arrange it all. Obviously my question was at what point does the additional money raised by featuring these cars exceed those costs?

Edited by dr_gn on Tuesday 6th October 07:28

[Gandahar]

Good to hear that people are recovering, though it's still a bad situation. Everyone wanted a fun day, now everyone didn't, including the driver. No matter what you think of him he will be feeling very bad. I wouldn't like to be in anyone's situation there

People on here have mentioned Goodwood and Bruntingthorpe. Are the safety standards up to scratch there also? I went to Goodwood many moons back and it was just straw bales up the hill. Better now? At Bruntingthorpe spectators seem a long way away, but at the end of the runs cars seem to be travelling very quickly through parked cars. That always seemed to me a bit odd with potentially bad consequences if brakes failed.

The whole safety aspect of these events seems to be non-regulated, or at least flexible. I'd be happy to go to one, but I'd have very little information on what liability is where. I'd probably be standing by the flimsy barrier with my camera. Well, perhaps not now.

F1 seems to be safest for spectators, then varying degrees down to rallying where it is impossible to put full protection in.

Are there any rules or laws for events like these comparable to air shows? Just talking about the UK now. Perhaps the minimum should be space and barrier requirements?

[Rick101]

dr_gn said:

hornetrider said:

dr_gn said:

That makes no sense to me: transporting four cars from the UK to Malta "for charity"?

Let me help you out. There is a charity event in Malta. He brings his cars out of the kindness of his heart. Money is then raised from people attending the event, which goes to charity. The en

Transporting 4 cars worth >£3m about 4000miles, plus flights to arrange it all. Obviously my question was at what point does the additional money raised by featuring these cars exceed those costs?

Just stop, read and think before replying again.

[Magic919]

dr_gn said:

Transporting 4 cars worth >£3m about 4000miles, plus flights to arrange it all. Obviously my question was at what point does the additional money raised by featuring these cars exceed those costs?

Edited by dr_gn on Tuesday 6th October 07:28

Who do you think pays those costs?

[williamp]

dr_gn said:

UC

hornetrider said:

dr_gn said:

That makes no sense to me: transporting four cars from the UK to Malta "for charity"?

Let me help you out. There is a charity event in Malta. He brings his cars out of the kindness of his heart. Money is then raised from people attending the event, which goes to charity. The end.

Difficult concept to grasp, granted.

Transporting 4 cars worth >£3m about 4000miles, plus flights to arrange it all. Obviously my question was at what point does the additional money raised by featuring these cars exceed those costs?

Edited by dr_gn on Tuesday 6th October 07:28

Does it matter? Maybe his donation is to pay for them, plus his time etc

[hornetrider]

dr_gn said:

hornetrider said:

dr_gn said:

That makes no sense to me: transporting four cars from the UK to Malta "for charity"?

Let me help you out. There is a charity event in Malta. He brings his cars out of the kindness of his heart. Money is then raised from people attending the event, which goes to charity. The end.

Difficult concept to grasp, granted.

Transporting 4 cars worth >£3m about 4000miles, plus flights to arrange it all. Obviously my question was at what point does the additional money raised by featuring these cars exceed those costs?

Obviously the concept of giving the gift of time and money in the name of charity is beyond your comprehension. I'll leave you to it.

[red997]

Gandahar said:

Good to hear that people are recovering, though it's still a bad situation. Everyone wanted a fun day, now everyone didn't, including the driver. No matter what you think of him he will be feeling very bad. I wouldn't like to be in anyone's situation there

People on here have mentioned Goodwood and Bruntingthorpe. Are the safety standards up to scratch there also? I went to Goodwood many moons back and it was just straw bales up the hill. Better now? At Bruntingthorpe spectators seem a long way away, but at the end of the runs cars seem to be travelling very quickly through parked cars. That always seemed to me a bit odd with potentially bad consequences if brakes failed.

The whole safety aspect of these events seems to be non-regulated, or at least flexible. I'd be happy to go to one, but I'd have very little information on what liability is where. I'd probably be standing by the flimsy barrier with my camera. Well, perhaps not now.

F1 seems to be safest for spectators, then varying degrees down to rallying where it is impossible to put full protection in.

Are there any rules or laws for events like these comparable to air shows? Just talking about the UK now. Perhaps the minimum should be space and barrier requirements?

Bruntingthorpe is safe from a spectator point of view - it's only drivers and passengers ;
I've never seen anyone driving too fast around the park up area - common sense seems to prevail.
You do have to watch your back whilst walking around the event though, cars reversing out have blind spots

They also have full safety crew (MSS) on hand at various parts of the event to ensure incidents can be responded to very quickly.

I've been to the Malta Paqpaqli event a few years ago, so familiar with the layout. the Maltese are car mad - though the fair, their roads are probably more dangerous than the event...

I suspect Mr Bailey is feeling awful about this now - sympathies to everyone involved

[Gompo]

Not necessarily charity events but am I right in thinking that for some motorsport events the Maltese government pay for transport etc of competing cars from the UK? 'Bloke in the pub' said this regarding some of the RWD Escorts that go over quite often.

[Ollywood]

With another very public porsche crash I wonder if it's going to make the 918 as notorious as the GT. Amazing no one got killed.

[rich12]

I can't believe some of the posts in here.

A Porsche crashed, so Porsche's must all be lethal weapons??? He could've done the exact same thing in a diesel Focus FFS.
It's not like the car took control, started steering towards the crowd on its on accord.

[anniesdad]

williamp said:

Does it matter? Maybe his donation is to pay for them, plus his time etc

If you click the link to the video just posted you will hear Paul Bailey say that a fee was agreed with the organiser to ensure the appearance of his 4 cars that were there on the day. It would perhaps be wrong to say that his cars being there is being done purely out of the goodness of his heart as the cars are used as mobile adverts being adorned with stickers etc. There is a commercial reason for the cars being there but in the circumstances that doesn't matter one iota.

[dr_gn]

Rick101 said:

dr_gn said:

hornetrider said:

dr_gn said:

That makes no sense to me: transporting four cars from the UK to Malta "for charity"?

Let me help you out. There is a charity event in Malta. He brings his cars out of the kindness of his heart. Money is then raised from people attending the event, which goes to charity. The en

Transporting 4 cars worth >£3m about 4000miles, plus flights to arrange it all. Obviously my question was at what point does the additional money raised by featuring these cars exceed those costs?

Just stop, read and think before replying again.

Say it costs him £x of his own money to transport his cars.

Say the charity subsequently gains £x-1 as a result of increased interest in the event etc.

In terms of the charity, what was that the best use of that initial £x - Donating direct to charity, or transporting the cars?

What is the break-even point? How do you even evaluate it?

[CraigVmax]

I preface the following with the comment that I know everyone here only wants the best for everyone who has been affected by this tragedy. However, I purposely haven't commented much thus far as I don't want to get drawn into a debate with a few keyboard warriors that seem to think it's a good time to kick someone when they are down and when others are lying seriously injured in hospital beds.

Paul might not be to everyone's taste but my experience of him has been as a decent guy who feels blessed to have worked hard to raise the funds to buy this incredible car collection. Yes he's been visible in the media at times and some won't like that, but it's all as a petrolhead and driving enthusiast which for me as PH'ers we should all think is a good thing. Yes he tries to monetise his cars but he also does a great deal of seen and unseen charity work of which this was a part. It's an utter tragedy and one none of us really know the answers to so can only speculate. I hope those affected recover swiftly.

For us at Vmax200 and Bruntingthorpe, safety is utterly paramount in our thoughts before and during every single event. We have the best safety team in the business and we conduct a full risk assessment before and during every event, we also of course have full public liability cover in place for each event. In 13 years of doing the event we've learned a lot and we're still learning all the time. We always ensure any spectators are kept well back from the speed areas and all drivers are well briefed before and during the events. I can't comment for other events but this kind of thing is one of the reasons we haven't yet had the public at Vmax200 despite a huge number of requests. Cheers all.

[CraigVmax]

dr_gn said:

Rick101 said:

dr_gn said:

hornetrider said:

dr_gn said:

That makes no sense to me: transporting four cars from the UK to Malta "for charity"?

Let me help you out. There is a charity event in Malta. He brings his cars out of the kindness of his heart. Money is then raised from people attending the event, which goes to charity. The en

Transporting 4 cars worth >£3m about 4000miles, plus flights to arrange it all. Obviously my question was at what point does the additional money raised by featuring these cars exceed those costs?

Just stop, read and think before replying again.

Say it costs him £x of his own money to transport his cars.

Say the charity subsequently gains £x-1 as a result of increased interest in the event etc.

In terms of the charity, what was that the best use of that initial £x - Donating direct to charity, or transporting the cars?

What is the break-even point? How do you even evaluate it?

Pointless equation, all the money went to charity.

[gilbo]

dr_gn said:

Say it costs him £x of his own money to transport his cars.

Say the charity subsequently gains £x-1 as a result of increased interest in the event etc.

In terms of the charity, what was that the best use of that initial £x - Donating direct to charity, or transporting the cars?

What is the break-even point? How do you even evaluate it?

What you're forgetting is without the cars there, there is no event. And no event means no money to the charity. It's run as a business for it to succeed and you have to spend to generate income.

[dr_gn]

gilbo said:

dr_gn said:

Say it costs him £x of his own money to transport his cars.

Say the charity subsequently gains £x-1 as a result of increased interest in the event etc.

In terms of the charity, what was that the best use of that initial £x - Donating direct to charity, or transporting the cars?

What is the break-even point? How do you even evaluate it?

What you're forgetting is without the cars there, there is no event. And no event means no money to the charity. It's run as a business for it to succeed and you have to spend to generate income.

What I said was that if the gain to the charity is less than the 'donated' expenses, direct donation of the expenses would be money better spent. How do you evaluate that until it's too late?

I'm assuming the event was not based only on those 4 cars? It's different from taking them 50 miles down the M1.

[Gazzab]

Not sure what relevance the business case has for this thread. Suggest you start a new thread if you want to analyse and debate the costs and returns for such events.