Paul Bailey's 918 Spyder involved in crash at motor show
Discussion
Schermerhorn said:
If I had raised concerns about the safety but was told to 'press on sir, give the crowd a show, there is plenty of run off and it will be OK' I simply would not have driven the car. Crowd safety is no joke, especially when there is a lack of barriers and lots of people standing in one place. No one can hold a gun to your head and make you do something you do not want to do.
A noble sentiment with hindsight, but unless there's something glaringly obvious in terms of poor safety provision, how do you know to raise it?Nothing in that video safety-facility wise would have stopped me driving the car at the time. It's easy now to say that the crowd are too close and the barriers too poor, but these things don't enter your head before a tragedy like this occurs.
Crowd safety is the domain of the organiser - they should have people with appropriate knowledge to organise it and, as a driver, you trust that.
I'm confused and I cannot find the answer on the internet.
Are there two Paul Baileys? The one that owns the alloy fabrication/ motorsports company and the one in the papers who sold a telecommunications company.
Or, are they the same guy?
I ask because, the motorsports 'Bailey' successfully competed in the 90's Vectra Fast Ford Championship and hence, (I would imagine) have much better car control knowledge and skills than the average PH'er.
Hence, I would expect this to have been a genuine accident and not a lack of talent or training.
Are there two Paul Baileys? The one that owns the alloy fabrication/ motorsports company and the one in the papers who sold a telecommunications company.
Or, are they the same guy?
I ask because, the motorsports 'Bailey' successfully competed in the 90's Vectra Fast Ford Championship and hence, (I would imagine) have much better car control knowledge and skills than the average PH'er.
Hence, I would expect this to have been a genuine accident and not a lack of talent or training.
Edited by Mandalore on Monday 5th October 14:39
cayman-black said:
flemke said:
It appears that you have deleted your previous post. Probably a good idea considering how ill-advised it was.
In my experience with P. Bailey, he is a guy who, unlike many wealthy people, appreciates how lucky he is to be in that position. He is mad-keen on cars, and he tries to share his enthusiasm with others.
If you think that people such as he do charity events to bolster their own egos, think again. Charity events are usually an expensive pain in the neck. In return for the expense and hassle, the only reward that one gets is from sharing one's good luck with others and bringing smiles to the faces of complete strangers with whom one's link is a passion for motor cars.
Paul appears to have made a driving error here, unfortunately at the wrong place and time. I too have made driving errors.
Have you never made a driving error?
I do not know the guy , but have to agree with above i think that its great that he shows and shares these special cars with strangers. Accidents do and will always happen.In my experience with P. Bailey, he is a guy who, unlike many wealthy people, appreciates how lucky he is to be in that position. He is mad-keen on cars, and he tries to share his enthusiasm with others.
If you think that people such as he do charity events to bolster their own egos, think again. Charity events are usually an expensive pain in the neck. In return for the expense and hassle, the only reward that one gets is from sharing one's good luck with others and bringing smiles to the faces of complete strangers with whom one's link is a passion for motor cars.
Paul appears to have made a driving error here, unfortunately at the wrong place and time. I too have made driving errors.
Have you never made a driving error?
These guys are talking a lot of sense.
Ultimately what is done is done. There was no malice, I don't think the driving was reckless (considering they were chiefly there to thrill and impress, for charity) and everyone was doing this in the best interests of charity. If Paul (or anyone) knew this was going to happen, I'm sure it would never have taken place, or the layout of the track would have been different, the barriers would have been stronger etc. Imagine the guilt and embarrassment Paul (and the organisers) are feeling right now. Its easy in hindsight to spot weakpoints + dangers which are now blindingly obvious, but clearly they weren't obvious enough before the accident happened for someone to turn round and go "hang on a minute guys".
Lessons must be learnt and future events can be made safer from these lessons. But scapegoating is not going to achieve anything.
RutlandWebster said:
Stuff
If you wish to discuss this further, may I suggest you take it elsewhere and start a new thread where your drivel can be ignored by those who don't wish to read what inane rubbish happens in your wonderful county.Thanks
As others have said, accidents can and do happen and that is why safety precautions are undertaken - to have nothing but a few metal moveable bars between a huge number of people and cars at speed is ridiculous. All the best to those injured that they recover soon.
There seems to be quite a lot of emotion being thrown around on this thread - some for and some against PB. Given the nature of PH it is not surprising that there is more of the latter.
Unless it was mechanical failure - which is a possibility, albeit remote - the cause of the crash was driver error. PB is most likely 100% to blame. My personal view is that in such a situation (no run off and crowd nearby) then PB should have been driving well below the limit. That doesn't seem to have been the case here. If the lay out of the track was my ideal then he should have gone slower to reflect that.
We all take risks and we all make mistakes. However if other people's safety is at stake (not just your own) I think that risk and the possibility of mistakes should be given more weight.
The organisers of the event are culpable with PB for not having taken steps to either reduce the likelihood of an accident occurring (via layout or agreement with PB about how he would drive) or more specifically through crowd protection measures such as concrete barriers. Ironically the lack of safety measures probably saved PB from worse injury or death as had there been concrete barriers it would likely have turned out worse for him (at least physically - mentally he may suffer more for having been responsible for injury to others).
Best wishes to all involved and hopefully this will lead to better safety at such events without stopping them or allowing health and safety concerns to strangle them completely.
Unless it was mechanical failure - which is a possibility, albeit remote - the cause of the crash was driver error. PB is most likely 100% to blame. My personal view is that in such a situation (no run off and crowd nearby) then PB should have been driving well below the limit. That doesn't seem to have been the case here. If the lay out of the track was my ideal then he should have gone slower to reflect that.
We all take risks and we all make mistakes. However if other people's safety is at stake (not just your own) I think that risk and the possibility of mistakes should be given more weight.
The organisers of the event are culpable with PB for not having taken steps to either reduce the likelihood of an accident occurring (via layout or agreement with PB about how he would drive) or more specifically through crowd protection measures such as concrete barriers. Ironically the lack of safety measures probably saved PB from worse injury or death as had there been concrete barriers it would likely have turned out worse for him (at least physically - mentally he may suffer more for having been responsible for injury to others).
Best wishes to all involved and hopefully this will lead to better safety at such events without stopping them or allowing health and safety concerns to strangle them completely.
Mandalore said:
I'm confused and I cannot find the answer on the internet.
Are there two Paul Baileys? The one that owns the alloy fabrication/ motorsports company and the one in the papers who sold a telecommunications company.
Or, are they the same guy?
I ask because, the motorsports 'Bailey' successfully competed in the 90's Vectra Fast Ford Championship and hence, (I would imagine) have much better car control knowledge and skills than the average PH'er.
Hence, I would expect this to have been a genuine accident and not a lack of talent or training.
Vectra Paul is a different chap. Are there two Paul Baileys? The one that owns the alloy fabrication/ motorsports company and the one in the papers who sold a telecommunications company.
Or, are they the same guy?
I ask because, the motorsports 'Bailey' successfully competed in the 90's Vectra Fast Ford Championship and hence, (I would imagine) have much better car control knowledge and skills than the average PH'er.
Hence, I would expect this to have been a genuine accident and not a lack of talent or training.
2000's Paul Bailey now owns Horsepower Racing which is the company he uses to race but was busy working through the '90's in the telecoms industry.
He has (and unlike others i speak from personal knowledge) used his cars and passion for driving to raise money for charities for any years. He has run many trackdays and auctioned rides in everything he owns to raise money, either as a simple prize or for charities like Sporting Bears.
Paul is, and always has been, a "new money" character. Like many that grew up in the Midlands he wears his gold on his sleeve but he has always done whatever he can to support those in need. His wife is the kindest person and will be devastated by what has happened.
Anyone using this opportunity to take a pop at them needs to take a serious look in the mirror. Accidents happen, sadly this one looks like driver error but as Flemke said, who hasnt made a driver error.
Hopefully all will recover, but I can assure you this will be in Paul and Selenas nightmares long after anyone on here remembers it.
Very sad to read about this for all concerned and I sincerely hope that all the injured people, especially the young child/children, make a full recovery from their injuries.
I know a little about road accident claims but am unsure of the implications here, wondering as I'm inclined to about the insurance implications of this. Is it typical that organisers of such events, of which there are a few, would provide the public liability insurance in a case like this or would Paul Bailey's motor insurers be expected to pick up what I anticipate to be a very expensive liability here? Obviously a normal road-risk insurance policy would not provide cover for the driver/car at such an event and it's not a typical track day type of event.
I know a little about road accident claims but am unsure of the implications here, wondering as I'm inclined to about the insurance implications of this. Is it typical that organisers of such events, of which there are a few, would provide the public liability insurance in a case like this or would Paul Bailey's motor insurers be expected to pick up what I anticipate to be a very expensive liability here? Obviously a normal road-risk insurance policy would not provide cover for the driver/car at such an event and it's not a typical track day type of event.
Mandalore said:
I'm confused and I cannot find the answer on the internet.
Are there two Paul Baileys? The one that owns the alloy fabrication/ motorsports company and the one in the papers who sold a telecommunications company.
Or, are they the same guy?
I ask because, the motorsports 'Bailey' successfully competed in the 90's Vectra Fast Ford Championship and hence, (I would imagine) have much better car control knowledge and skills than the average PH'er.
Hence, I would expect this to have been a genuine accident and not a lack of talent or training.
Vectra Bailey had a monstrously fast cosworth powered mk2 escort if memory serves....Are there two Paul Baileys? The one that owns the alloy fabrication/ motorsports company and the one in the papers who sold a telecommunications company.
Or, are they the same guy?
I ask because, the motorsports 'Bailey' successfully competed in the 90's Vectra Fast Ford Championship and hence, (I would imagine) have much better car control knowledge and skills than the average PH'er.
Hence, I would expect this to have been a genuine accident and not a lack of talent or training.
Edited by Mandalore on Monday 5th October 14:39
anniesdad said:
Very sad to read about this for all concerned and I sincerely hope that all the injured people, especially the young child/children, make a full recovery from their injuries.
I know a little about road accident claims but am unsure of the implications here, wondering as I'm inclined to about the insurance implications of this. Is it typical that organisers of such events, of which there are a few, would provide the public liability insurance in a case like this or would Paul Bailey's motor insurers be expected to pick up what I anticipate to be a very expensive liability here? Obviously a normal road-risk insurance policy would not provide cover for the driver/car at such an event and it's not a typical track day type of event.
Suspect that the event hosts will have public liability insurance for accident related claims. However I suspect that the accident investigation conclusions will define who is liable for the claims by those injured etc I assume Paul Bailey will be insured and that this policy will, at least, cover the costs of car damage. I know a little about road accident claims but am unsure of the implications here, wondering as I'm inclined to about the insurance implications of this. Is it typical that organisers of such events, of which there are a few, would provide the public liability insurance in a case like this or would Paul Bailey's motor insurers be expected to pick up what I anticipate to be a very expensive liability here? Obviously a normal road-risk insurance policy would not provide cover for the driver/car at such an event and it's not a typical track day type of event.
Gazzab said:
Suspect that the event hosts will have public liability insurance for accident related claims. However I suspect that the accident investigation conclusions will define who is liable for the claims by those injured etc I assume Paul Bailey will be insured and that this policy will, at least, cover the costs of car damage.
Moving the subject over to the car itself... is it likely it will be repaired?Surely it takes a LOT to write off a £800,000 car. I appreciate it is a limited edition car filled with ultra high-tech materials and uber expensive bespoke technology, but even if the repair bill was £200-300k, surely the underwriters will deem it viable to repair.
Or perhaps at that level of insurance the policy holder has scope to say "No repairs, even if economical. Pay out please".
Everyone is familiar with how many times Rowan Atkinson's old F1 had been crashed and was economical to repair! And the pictures looked a lot worse than how Paul's 918 looks.
Will be interesting to see.
AOK said:
Moving the subject over to the car itself... is it likely it will be repaired?
Surely it takes a LOT to write off a £800,000 car. I appreciate it is a limited edition car filled with ultra high-tech materials and uber expensive bespoke technology, but even if the repair bill was £200-300k, surely the underwriters will deem it viable to repair.
Or perhaps at that level of insurance the policy holder has scope to say "No repairs, even if economical. Pay out please".
Everyone is familiar with how many times Rowan Atkinson's old F1 had been crashed and was economical to repair! And the pictures looked a lot worse than how Paul's 918 looks.
Will be interesting to see.
I don't wish to speculate about who might cover what at the actual event the subject of this thread, I suspect we may never actually find out, I'm simply interested in what happens in general. I do though hope that any interested insurers don't make it awkward for the claimants and do everything they can to smooth out what may be a long and arduous road for some of the attendees in their recovery. Surely it takes a LOT to write off a £800,000 car. I appreciate it is a limited edition car filled with ultra high-tech materials and uber expensive bespoke technology, but even if the repair bill was £200-300k, surely the underwriters will deem it viable to repair.
Or perhaps at that level of insurance the policy holder has scope to say "No repairs, even if economical. Pay out please".
Everyone is familiar with how many times Rowan Atkinson's old F1 had been crashed and was economical to repair! And the pictures looked a lot worse than how Paul's 918 looks.
Will be interesting to see.
To answer your question above if the repair figure you mention is close to the actual repair costs and Mr Bailey was driving with insurance at the time, then the insurers will pay only for the car to be repaired. They would not therefore pay out as a total loss. Rowan Atkinson's repairs in the latest accident involving the F1 were quantified in the region of c.10% of the cars market value, so there was no question of a write off.
AyBee said:
If you wish to discuss this further, may I suggest you take it elsewhere and start a new thread where your drivel can be ignored by those who don't wish to read what inane rubbish happens in your wonderful county.
Thanks
As others have said, accidents can and do happen and that is why safety precautions are undertaken - to have nothing but a few metal moveable bars between a huge number of people and cars at speed is ridiculous. All the best to those injured that they recover soon.
You're welcome and thanks for the suggestion. Equally it could stay where it and your posts are entitled to be, and you could instead partially follow your own advice and simply ignore it. Thanks
As others have said, accidents can and do happen and that is why safety precautions are undertaken - to have nothing but a few metal moveable bars between a huge number of people and cars at speed is ridiculous. All the best to those injured that they recover soon.
For the record, I agree with the rest of your post. As others have said, it was for the organisers, safety experts and the driver himself to judge whether the event was satisfactorily safe. From the number of spectators the driver was able to hit after losing control of the car, what can be seen in footage and what others who were on the ground have said of the "course" it appears it wasn't, which as has already been speculated, could result in the blame being shared by all involved - I suppose the state of the barriers such as they were, and the apparent lack of requirement for helmets for driver and passenger given the potential speeds involved could be a clue as to the event's safety provisions.
Hopefully it was properly insured at least, so those who are injured don't have to suffer any longer than necessary as a result.
Aside from those who have been injured, the other sad thing is that every time there is an incident such as this, it tends to lead to more tightening of the rules and spectators being moved further and further away from the action as has happened with rallying over the years.
By the way, having reviewed my initial post this morning I agree, could have toned it down a little and some of the content was a little unnecessary - I reckon it's always good to learn something each day and today I've learned:
1. First thing on a Monday morning, never, ever be tempted to commit the written word anywhere it can be seen publicly until after the second cup of coffee...By which time one will be thinking "I have more important stuff to do - What was I thinking?".
2. Never post anything to a thread where the word "Bell-end" has already been used as a noun by others - The bar's already been set and the tone's only travelling in one direction.
mattf93 said:
Clearly you have never met him then as he is not like that at all, he's pure petrol head through and through. He doesnt actually like the limelight he just wants to share his cars with other petrol heads, whether that be his racing team, through drives, through charity events (he doesnt just do super car events I know he does give significantly to charities by cheques...)
Your final comment is completely inappropriate for PH, he himself has sustained head injuries (although now stable) as well as lacerations and other injuries - it was a tragic set of circumstances and he is not wholly responsible for it whichever way you look at it.
I absolutely don't condone some of what has been written on here but I am not sure Paul Bailey can be represented as a person who doesn't like the limelight. Your final comment is completely inappropriate for PH, he himself has sustained head injuries (although now stable) as well as lacerations and other injuries - it was a tragic set of circumstances and he is not wholly responsible for it whichever way you look at it.
This is someone who has professional photo's taken and videos made of him picking his cars up which find there way onto blogs/websites and has had articles written about him and his car collection that have appeared in the national media.
This is not a man who you'd need to ask to do the custard test!
He's clearly very generous from what you say but I'd say he also quite likes the limelight.
Sadly, as with many of these accidents, I suspect this will come down to driver error.
The barriers and crowd position is one thing, but lets not forget this is Malta and we don't know the H and S rules there. In UK, clearly that would not be allowed, to have those plastic barriers I mean, and on many "parades" like this, private property and even closed roads, there are sometimes speed restrictions put in place, although this is not that common unless it is a closed road.
I feel sorry for Paul, but more sorry for the injured. it's not easy to see from the vid, but just seems he took the chicane a little quick, tweaked the grass with the power on, and it swapped ends. if he'd had gone a bit more steady though the chicane and booted it when straight, everyone would have been cheering with glee as he shot past. A tiny mistake and his life and many others may well never be the same again.
Lets be careful out there.
The barriers and crowd position is one thing, but lets not forget this is Malta and we don't know the H and S rules there. In UK, clearly that would not be allowed, to have those plastic barriers I mean, and on many "parades" like this, private property and even closed roads, there are sometimes speed restrictions put in place, although this is not that common unless it is a closed road.
I feel sorry for Paul, but more sorry for the injured. it's not easy to see from the vid, but just seems he took the chicane a little quick, tweaked the grass with the power on, and it swapped ends. if he'd had gone a bit more steady though the chicane and booted it when straight, everyone would have been cheering with glee as he shot past. A tiny mistake and his life and many others may well never be the same again.
Lets be careful out there.
BBC are reporting that the condition of the girl has improved slightly. I couldn't care less about the condition of the car 
Terrible to watch those videos - I sincerely hope that the number of serious head injuries being reported doesn't result in any fatalities/disabilities.
Ultimate responsibility for this is with the driver IMO.
Terrible to watch those videos - I sincerely hope that the number of serious head injuries being reported doesn't result in any fatalities/disabilities.
Ultimate responsibility for this is with the driver IMO.
Cheib said:
mattf93 said:
Clearly you have never met him then as he is not like that at all, he's pure petrol head through and through. He doesnt actually like the limelight he just wants to share his cars with other petrol heads, whether that be his racing team, through drives, through charity events (he doesnt just do super car events I know he does give significantly to charities by cheques...)
Your final comment is completely inappropriate for PH, he himself has sustained head injuries (although now stable) as well as lacerations and other injuries - it was a tragic set of circumstances and he is not wholly responsible for it whichever way you look at it.
I absolutely don't condone some of what has been written on here but I am not sure Paul Bailey can be represented as a person who doesn't like the limelight. Your final comment is completely inappropriate for PH, he himself has sustained head injuries (although now stable) as well as lacerations and other injuries - it was a tragic set of circumstances and he is not wholly responsible for it whichever way you look at it.
This is someone who has professional photo's taken and videos made of him picking his cars up which find there way onto blogs/websites and has had articles written about him and his car collection that have appeared in the national media.
This is not a man who you'd need to ask to do the custard test!
He's clearly very generous from what you say but I'd say he also quite likes the limelight.
Anyone who enjoys being plastered all over the press with his material wealth, and has a penchant for utterly chav illegally spaced number plates, is certainly not trying to avoid the limelight.
That said I hope he and everyone else who was injured makes a speedy and full recovery.
Gazzab said:
Guys I dont care about his car, his business interests, his money, his personality, his like or dislike for publicity, his planning issues etc He and others have sustained injuries, I just hope they can all recover well from them.
I couldn't agree more. I don't think there is a single person in this thread who hasn't expressed similar concern or wouldn't agree with you (regardless what side of the PB fence they sit).AOK said:
Gazzab said:
Guys I dont care about his car, his business interests, his money, his personality, his like or dislike for publicity, his planning issues etc He and others have sustained injuries, I just hope they can all recover well from them.
I couldn't agree more. I don't think there is a single person in this thread who hasn't expressed similar concern or wouldn't agree with you (regardless what side of the PB fence they sit).Gassing Station | Motoring News | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff