RE: Marcos Engineering Appoints Administrator
Discussion
Mustang Baz said:
Very sad and somewhat confusing - Marcos mentioned to me at Goodwood that they had forward order bookes in the years as opposed to the months. Great car and marque and what a rarity the 3 will become on the roads.
Sadly every small sports car company is forced to make statements like this otherwise nobody would buy the cars if they thought they were the first customer or if they thought the business was on shaky ground. 
900T-R said:
Podie said:
Friend of mine picked up a 4.3 needing some minor fettling for peanuts, absolute peanuts.
What exactly constitutes 'peanuts' for a car that's at least 13 years old? I shopped at the lower end of the market last year - but what I paid was still 10x the amount I'd have paid for a tintop of similar value when new, of the same age... Given that I've yet to see one which I'd describe as 'mint/not needing anything' I'd say it's been unrealistic of folks to expect these would always continue to fetch ~£10K at least (that's a whopping 40% of list price when new BTW). As with all older and somewhat desirable cars, we're quickly heading for a situation where condition is reflected in the price, and being a 'later/newer' car doesn't add a premium anymore simply becasue all of them are old cars by now and conversely, the price level at which one can buy clean(ish), useable examples won't drop much if at all anymore. Prices of cars with problems/work needed will fall through the floor no doubt - it's not like labour rates or parts prices will drop within the next years...
Edited by 900T-R on Thursday 11th October 12:32
I think condition has always set the price with TVRs – it was the same when I bought (and sold) my S. 12 months ago a late (eg 99) Chimaera would have gone for the 15k mark – looking through them quickly now, there are plenty for a shade over 10k. Good cars have always commanded the money, but my point is that the money for a good car has dropped quite alarmingly in the last 12 months. 12 months prior to that those cars were 17/18k, so the drop is happening faster. I see no point in comparing it to a tintop, it’s not that sort of car. Go and have a look at 13 year old Porsche prices and see how little they’ve moved in the same timeframe.
Another bad day for British motoring, but indicative of what happens when you take too long to bring a product to market when there is so much competition.
I wonder how long before either someone on here:
1 - Comes up with a "great idea" to buy the company and produce a £15k, 500bhp Marcogriff that he's designed in the back of one of his schoolbooks
2 - Suggests Peter Wheeler should buy the company
3 - Alan Melling comes up wth a rescue plan
... Not that cynicism is setting in at all
I wonder how long before either someone on here:
1 - Comes up with a "great idea" to buy the company and produce a £15k, 500bhp Marcogriff that he's designed in the back of one of his schoolbooks
2 - Suggests Peter Wheeler should buy the company
3 - Alan Melling comes up wth a rescue plan
... Not that cynicism is setting in at all
wedgie said:
1 - Comes up with a "great idea" to buy the company and produce a £15k, 500bhp Marcogriff that he's designed in the back of one of his schoolbooks
2 - Suggests Peter Wheeler should buy the company
3 - Alan Melling comes up wth a rescue plan
... Not that cynicism is setting in at all
Happend on one of the threads "we should buy it"... shame was, another 6 posts and I've have won the sweep we're having 2 - Suggests Peter Wheeler should buy the company
3 - Alan Melling comes up wth a rescue plan
... Not that cynicism is setting in at all
Oh for goodness sake Horse_Apple, stop blaming the Government. I did not vote for them, but even I can see the truth.
Ring round a Porsche dealer, ask for a delivery date on a 911 Turbo or a GT3. Do the same with a 430 at a Ferrari dealer. Try it on a Gallardo. Ring an Audi dealer, see if they will even bother to take your call about an R8.
In fact, have a look around and you will find, for example that an 07 F430 spider used and an 07 R8 used, are both trading well over list price.
There are plenty of buyers for high performance cars. The simple fact is that the mainstream manufacturers have taken the market over with cars that are nearly as fast as the TVR/Marcos offerings, if not faster, cost the same or less to buy, are reliable, come with a 3 year guarantee from a manufacturer that is likely to be around for 3 years and one that has plenty of dealers. For sure they cost less to run too.
There are simply not enough people who are prepared to overlook a Cayman S or an SLK AMG 55 and buy something like a TVR/Marcos type car.
Yes it might be a bit more individual than the Porsche/Mercedes. Occasionally, it might be a little bit faster (dry straight road with a driver with big balls), but other than that point, the ownership experience is much better with the German cars.
No doubt someone will reply and say that they like a car with handling to give them brown underpants, no safety aids, crash protection from another era, flimsy build quality and questionable reliability.
The trouble is, in Marcos' case there seem only to have been 3 such people and in TVR's much the same.
Ring round a Porsche dealer, ask for a delivery date on a 911 Turbo or a GT3. Do the same with a 430 at a Ferrari dealer. Try it on a Gallardo. Ring an Audi dealer, see if they will even bother to take your call about an R8.
In fact, have a look around and you will find, for example that an 07 F430 spider used and an 07 R8 used, are both trading well over list price.
There are plenty of buyers for high performance cars. The simple fact is that the mainstream manufacturers have taken the market over with cars that are nearly as fast as the TVR/Marcos offerings, if not faster, cost the same or less to buy, are reliable, come with a 3 year guarantee from a manufacturer that is likely to be around for 3 years and one that has plenty of dealers. For sure they cost less to run too.
There are simply not enough people who are prepared to overlook a Cayman S or an SLK AMG 55 and buy something like a TVR/Marcos type car.
Yes it might be a bit more individual than the Porsche/Mercedes. Occasionally, it might be a little bit faster (dry straight road with a driver with big balls), but other than that point, the ownership experience is much better with the German cars.
No doubt someone will reply and say that they like a car with handling to give them brown underpants, no safety aids, crash protection from another era, flimsy build quality and questionable reliability.
The trouble is, in Marcos' case there seem only to have been 3 such people and in TVR's much the same.
V800MPH said:
As far as i know Jasper three-one to me one to a guy in cheshire & one to someone in shropshire.Look out for the last one-black with gold fleck looks fantastic!! The other two are with dealers
Red metallic one for sale near me ----- still Jasper Gilder said:
Real shame. How many had they sold 5?
Podie said:
5k for a functioning car that needed some cleaning and a new thermostat. In fact, thinking about it I know someone else who picked up an early car in this price bracket, although his required a little more TLC and an MOT (he’s joined PH and by all accounts has a very nice car).
I paid 5.9K for one in a nice unmolested condition December last year, which I thought was par for the course. I didn't think of it as underpriced, rather that there are lots of overpriced examples out there. (Shame about the leaking radiator and water pump though, which conspired to cause a head gasket failure - but every cloud has its silver lining...).Podie said:
12 months ago a late (eg 99) Chimaera would have gone for the 15k mark – looking through them quickly now, there are plenty for a shade over 10k.
Plenty in the classifieds for around that price when I was looking. I've been observing prices from 2002 or so and I have to say the biggest fall was between say 2003 and 2005 as Tamoras and Tuscans were entering the market at a level that was hitherto unchallenged RV8 territory. Podie said:
Go and have a look at 13 year old Porsche prices and see how little they’ve moved in the same timeframe.
No use comparing with Porsches - they're not that sort of car. We're talking cars that need some serious attention to chassis and mechanicals to preserve them for years to come, or will need it in the near future - which rules out the 'money burning in my pocket and just wanting a blast/pose on a Sunday morning' type of customer.900T-R said:
Podie said:
5k for a functioning car that needed some cleaning and a new thermostat. In fact, thinking about it I know someone else who picked up an early car in this price bracket, although his required a little more TLC and an MOT (he’s joined PH and by all accounts has a very nice car).
I paid 5.9K for one in a nice unmolested condition December last year, which I thought was par for the course. I didn't think of it as underpriced, rather that there are lots of overpriced examples out there. (Shame about the leaking radiator and water pump though, which conspired to cause a head gasket failure - but every cloud has its silver lining...).Purchase price isn’t really a barrier to entry now it seems – it’s the running costs. Given this I am surprised that prices have dropped that much. Interesting that for that sort of month you can have the choice of a Chimaera, S or Wedge…
Podie said:
12 months ago a late (eg 99) Chimaera would have gone for the 15k mark – looking through them quickly now, there are plenty for a shade over 10k.
Plenty in the classifieds for around that price when I was looking. I've been observing prices from 2002 or so and I have to say the biggest fall was between say 2003 and 2005 as Tamoras and Tuscans were entering the market at a level that was hitherto unchallenged RV8 territory. Likewise, I was looking at prices back then as I contemplated a move from the S. New models generally mean a drop in prices for any manufacturer – hence the reason I didn’t comment on this.
Podie said:
Go and have a look at 13 year old Porsche prices and see how little they’ve moved in the same timeframe.
No use comparing with Porsches - they're not that sort of car. We're talking cars that need some serious attention to chassis and mechanicals to preserve them for years to come, or will need it in the near future - which rules out the 'money burning in my pocket and just wanting a blast/pose on a Sunday morning' type of customer.Shame. I hope Lotus is reading this with their v8 obsession.
They should have spent all that money keeping the Elise on top, refining production and safety, and ultra reliability. And fitting a sodding roof that converts.
Lotus has never made money on their v8's, but for a while the elise was selling 1000's.
They should have spent all that money keeping the Elise on top, refining production and safety, and ultra reliability. And fitting a sodding roof that converts.
Lotus has never made money on their v8's, but for a while the elise was selling 1000's.
nicktowe said:
Another sad day
I guess that leaves Ginetta as one of the few sports car makers in the UK. I hope the road going version of their G50 is a success. We need home made light weight powerful sports cars, a product we seem to be good at designing but trrible and making and selling profitably.
Does a Caterham count as a light weight powerful sports car? Last i heard they were selling quite a few Sevens, are British owned and making a profit!I guess that leaves Ginetta as one of the few sports car makers in the UK. I hope the road going version of their G50 is a success. We need home made light weight powerful sports cars, a product we seem to be good at designing but trrible and making and selling profitably.
@Mogulboy
Wiesmanns Headbiz isnt the Roadster or Coupe or better Carmanufacturing.
Wiesmann produces very successful Hardtops for Roadsters and Cabriolets
and another Extra Tuning Equipment for Mass-produced Carmanufacturers
and for Private Customers in the EU.
Hardtops and so on are much cheaper as a complete Sportscars.
These Bizmodel makes Wiesmann so succesful and save the production of the Wiesmann Cars.
But Tvr or Marcos has produced only Sportscars,and these Cars are not Cheap.
Individual and Beautyful,thats sure-but thats not enough in these Times with
bigger Markets.
I would say with Wiesmanns bizmodel where Marcos or TVR still alive and not bankrupt.
But i think the Last Owners of these Companies are Bad Managers. (NS!!)
Whats with Saleen with his very Expensive S7?
No Chance to make money with it.
But it works,and why?
Saleens headbiz is the Tuning of Ford Cars or better Mustangs-a cheap Car with
many Fans in the US.
That brings the Money,only that.
Its Sad for Marcos-i love Marcos Cars,the old and the new ones.
But thats the reality,the market is brutal.
Wiesmanns Headbiz isnt the Roadster or Coupe or better Carmanufacturing.
Wiesmann produces very successful Hardtops for Roadsters and Cabriolets
and another Extra Tuning Equipment for Mass-produced Carmanufacturers
and for Private Customers in the EU.
Hardtops and so on are much cheaper as a complete Sportscars.
These Bizmodel makes Wiesmann so succesful and save the production of the Wiesmann Cars.
But Tvr or Marcos has produced only Sportscars,and these Cars are not Cheap.
Individual and Beautyful,thats sure-but thats not enough in these Times with
bigger Markets.
I would say with Wiesmanns bizmodel where Marcos or TVR still alive and not bankrupt.
But i think the Last Owners of these Companies are Bad Managers. (NS!!)
Whats with Saleen with his very Expensive S7?
No Chance to make money with it.
But it works,and why?
Saleens headbiz is the Tuning of Ford Cars or better Mustangs-a cheap Car with
many Fans in the US.
That brings the Money,only that.
Its Sad for Marcos-i love Marcos Cars,the old and the new ones.
But thats the reality,the market is brutal.
little-red-canam said:
Another foreigner fcuks up our motor industry, mind you, they were over priced.
Thats a little harsh he is no way in the same league as smoloski, he tried to revive an old British Sportscar maker but it didn't work. He didn't go on a PR covered asset stripping campaign.edit: opps must type faster
Edited by Ed. on Thursday 11th October 16:22
It is a sad day, but everyone underestimates how hard it is to enter the car market. Its easy to build 1,2 or even 4 cars for show - putting them into production is another matter. Caterham and Morgan are the only survivors, both with their heads screwed on and making interesting cars. As eveyone has proved, even the big boys, its not an industry to make you rich though.
After reviewing Marcos's business prospects and potential opportunities, the Company came to the conclusion that Administration of the Company would have the highest probability of returning the greatest value to its shareholders and creditors.
... and f**k the workers. Sums-up business these days.
... and f**k the workers. Sums-up business these days.
little-red-canam said:
Another foreigner fcuks up our motor industry, mind you, they were over priced.
Get your facts straight. Smolenski, maybe. I think the real story is that he mis-managed TVRs demise, which may have been inevitable. His incompetence just hurried up a bad situation. As for Marcos, they really tried, but no one was buying. I would have to think that their inability to get a dealership network may have been a contributing factor?
The good part about all of this is that someone actually tried to build a great looking car with some real grunt.
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