RE: 720bhp Avro Ford GT
Discussion
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
aeropilot said:
I'd rather have a proper 'bespoke' Ford GT......you can have a 'brand new' Ford GT MkII built from scratch by Holman&Moody complete down to correct detail '66 spec including a proper NASCAR 427 side-oiler.......oh yes please 
Drive both for a couple of hours and then say that. Oh and that's GT40 you mean obviously.And no, I don't mean GT40.....
aeropilot said:
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
aeropilot said:
I'd rather have a proper 'bespoke' Ford GT......you can have a 'brand new' Ford GT MkII built from scratch by Holman&Moody complete down to correct detail '66 spec including a proper NASCAR 427 side-oiler.......oh yes please
Drive both for a couple of hours and then say that. Oh and that's GT40 you mean obviously.ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
And no, I don't mean GT40.....
Even Ford can't agree if the original cars are called GT40's or not, yet most of their serial numbers start GT40....ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
aeropilot said:
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
aeropilot said:
I'd rather have a proper 'bespoke' Ford GT......you can have a 'brand new' Ford GT MkII built from scratch by Holman&Moody complete down to correct detail '66 spec including a proper NASCAR 427 side-oiler.......oh yes please
Drive both for a couple of hours and then say that. Oh and that's GT40 you mean obviously.The current Ford GT is a superb bit of Ford history recreation and I applaud them for making it, and yes I'd prefer one to most of the so-called supercar opposition, but, these things are not shopping cars your going to use to drive to Tesco in, so if in terms of a toy.....yup, I'd rather have as close to the 'real' thing as I could get.....
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
And no, I don't mean GT40.....
Even Ford can't agree if the original cars are called GT40's or not, yet most of their serial numbers start GT40.... Incidently, 20 odd years ago, I knew a guy who had worked at Ford AVO, Slough building them, and he said everyone from the Ford top brass downwards always called them GT40's.
aeropilot said:
Incidently, 20 odd years ago, I knew a guy who had worked at Ford AVO, Slough building them, and he said everyone from the Ford top brass downwards always called them GT40's.
Interesting. All internal literature I saw in a shade under 10 years always stated "Ford GT"It was the press that dubbed it the "GT40" due to it's height...
Podie said:
aeropilot said:
Incidently, 20 odd years ago, I knew a guy who had worked at Ford AVO, Slough building them, and he said everyone from the Ford top brass downwards always called them GT40's.
Interesting. All internal literature I saw in a shade under 10 years always stated "Ford GT"It was the press that dubbed it the "GT40" due to it's height...
to ask any anal questions, was just happy to listen at the time, but one of the other guys did know more and brought up the GT or GT40 subject, and I remember him just saying, "well everyone called it a GT40 from the top brass downwards".......Wasn't it the first pre-production cars that were offically Ford GT with a GT prefixed chassis No. and then all the subsequent 'production' cars had the GT40P-**** chassis number....??
aeropilot said:
Podie said:
aeropilot said:
Incidently, 20 odd years ago, I knew a guy who had worked at Ford AVO, Slough building them, and he said everyone from the Ford top brass downwards always called them GT40's.
Interesting. All internal literature I saw in a shade under 10 years always stated "Ford GT"It was the press that dubbed it the "GT40" due to it's height...
to ask any anal questions, was just happy to listen at the time, but one of the other guys did know more and brought up the GT or GT40 subject, and I remember him just saying, "well everyone called it a GT40 from the top brass downwards".......Wasn't it the first pre-production cars that were offically Ford GT with a GT prefixed chassis No. and then all the subsequent 'production' cars had the GT40P-**** chassis number....??
I can only comment on my own experiences. Still, it was really a Lola (Mk VI) anyway 
vino 187 said:
and that ultima? really who needs all those guages? no-one and not EVEN race cars.
Guess you must have missed the bit where an owner explained you can have whatever interior you liked. If you want to go all "fast n furious", thats possible. If you want to go all minimalist, thats also possible. The interior is exactly what you want it to be.
And at 0-100 mph in 5.5 seconds, I doubt too many people would get a look at it under ANY circumstances.
Still, if people want to buy this overpriced GT40 with less performance, I guess they're welcomed to it.
Edited by big_rob_sydney on Monday 7th April 15:17
big_rob_sydney said:
vino 187 said:
and that ultima? really who needs all those guages? no-one and not EVEN race cars.
Guess you must have missed the bit where an owner explained you can have whatever interior you liked. If you want to go all "fast n furious", thats possible. If you want to go all minimalist, thats also possible. The interior is exactly what you want it to be.
And at 0-100 mph in 5.5 seconds, I doubt too many people would get a look at it under ANY circumstances.
Still, if people want to buy this overpriced GT40 with less performance, I guess they're welcomed to it.
Edited by big_rob_sydney on Monday 7th April 15:17
Anyway, isn't the Ultima just a lesser McLaren F1? (Stirs the pot, takes out the popcorn...)
Thats cool. A lesser Maclaren isnt exactly a bad thing to aspire to. Consider that Macca costs about £30k to service. You seem to know about the LS series of motors. What does it cost to service one?
For my money, the Ultima is pretty much the best thats out there for the money, and punches well above its weight. They have many world records to their name. What does AVRO have? What does the modern Ford GT have?
I wouldnt buy the Ford GT. Especially after Clarksons experience - 17 times back to the dealer! Why does it take so many attempts to get the electrics sorted on a brand new car, and especially on a car from a company as big as Ford? Its just disgraceful that they can come out and be so crap.
For my money, the Ultima is pretty much the best thats out there for the money, and punches well above its weight. They have many world records to their name. What does AVRO have? What does the modern Ford GT have?
I wouldnt buy the Ford GT. Especially after Clarksons experience - 17 times back to the dealer! Why does it take so many attempts to get the electrics sorted on a brand new car, and especially on a car from a company as big as Ford? Its just disgraceful that they can come out and be so crap.
big_rob_sydney said:
I wouldnt buy the Ford GT. Especially after Clarksons experience - 17 times back to the dealer! Why does it take so many attempts to get the electrics sorted on a brand new car, and especially on a car from a company as big as Ford? Its just disgraceful that they can come out and be so crap.
Do not believe all you read or see on TV... big_rob_sydney said:
Thats cool. A lesser Maclaren isnt exactly a bad thing to aspire to. Consider that Macca costs about £30k to service. You seem to know about the LS series of motors. What does it cost to service one?
Oil and a filter.big_rob_sydney said:
For my money, the Ultima is pretty much the best thats out there for the money, and punches well above its weight. They have many world records to their name.
Very true. But I'd argue the Z06 is better value in terms of what you get for your money and the fact you don't have to build it yourself. It's damned near as fast as the Ford GT. just very much uglier which is where it loses for me.big_rob_sydney said:
What does AVRO have? What does the modern Ford GT have?
Stunning looks, perfect proportions, a retro inspired design from one of the greatest cars of all time, not looking like a kit car, not smelling like a canoe. As Lightning McQueen would say "Kerpow! Kerchow!".big_rob_sydney said:
I wouldnt buy the Ford GT. Especially after Clarksons experience - 17 times back to the dealer! Why does it take so many attempts to get the electrics sorted on a brand new car, and especially on a car from a company as big as Ford? Its just disgraceful that they can come out and be so crap.
It was the alarm, not the car and that was fitted by Roush. The fault was with the alarm, possibly the installation, not the car. They had no problems at all in the US. Top Gear is an entertainment programme not based on anything factual. The only reason I would not buy one is the door arrangement but then parking in tight spaces isn't something I'd be doing. Still, a Lambo style door would have preserved the door cutting into the roof and allowed better access.LuS1fer said:
It was the alarm, not the car and that was fitted by Roush. The fault was with the alarm, possibly the installation, not the car. They had no problems at all in the US. Top Gear is an entertainment programme not based on anything factual....
I'm not even sure it was Roush who fitted all the alarms. Anyway, I've had the car for a year now and nothing has gone wrong with it, and I've done more miles than Jeremy did. It's still the same alarm. Maybe he just ironed out all the bugs, or maybe it was just a good story.The alarm is quite complex, and I know that JC isn't the technology master of the world. He left all the favorite destinations in the satnav, even though James May told him to delete them all!
LuS1fer said:
Very true. But I'd argue the Z06 is better value in terms of what you get for your money and the fact you don't have to build it yourself.
big_rob_sydney said:
What does AVRO have? What does the modern Ford GT have?
LuS1fer said:
Stunning looks, perfect proportions, a retro inspired design from one of the greatest cars of all time, not looking like a kit car, not smelling like a canoe. As Lightning McQueen would say "Kerpow! Kerchow!".
Yes, you get more with the Z06. About 500 kilograms more. Great for the performance... Check out the ultima website, where they have a Covette as the chase car. It gets left behind pretty badly 
Oh, and you actually get less power with the Z06.
You can buy the Ultima ready to roll, just like any other car, from the factory, and it doesnt smell like a canoe. The self build option is just there for people who want to try it.
As for retro design, one could say that Ford are creatively bankrupt. Just keep churning the old stuff, because they cant come up with anything fresh. A copy of a car from the 60's, eh? Well, if that floats your slow boat, go for it.
Edited by big_rob_sydney on Friday 18th April 16:20
Both the GT and Mustang DO float my boat. The 2005 Mustang is very much a design it's own right. Park it next to an original and whilst it may cause the more slow amongst the populace to think "Duh, gee, dat's du same car", the fact is that they are almost completely different and only the careful use of design cues tricks the brain into thinking they look anything like each other when they plainly don't.
As for bankrupt in design, it doesn't take a to work out that it's the design that caused this car to sell like hot cakes. Modern designs like the Probe and Cougar flopped, the last camaro didn't sell too well and the Mustang comfortably outsells everything in it's class. So making what vthe public want is hardly a dull thing to do. IT's actually very clever design that allows Ford to make a car that recalls a 60's car so well given all the safety measures it has to comply with. And who is to say "modern" design is better vthan 60's design because I've not really met anyone who thinks that is automatically true. I still prefer the 240Z to the 350Z and the new GTR is er..well, not attractive.
The Porsche 911 hardly signifies design bankruptcy either - all attempts to ditch the design ahve resulted in a return to what the public wants.
I don't even think the Ultima is in the same league as these production cars. It looks like the mastocephalic offspring of a 60's Can-Am racer so retro is an subjective tag. It also doesn't exactly look comfortable in there:
Blindingly fast it may be but I'd still take the new Corvette ZR1 over it on any day of the week with a Y in it. Pure speed is all very well but comfort, speed humps and I'm pretty sure far less depreciation have to be taken into account.
I also read somewhere, maybe here, that the Ultima price list is one where you can make a car very expensive very quickly indeed.
Maybe these cars are 500kg more but by the time you add all the kit on these cars to an Ultima, do you know what it weighs? You can always buy a Z06 and strip it down by throwing away the air con and leather seats and carpets.
As for bankrupt in design, it doesn't take a to work out that it's the design that caused this car to sell like hot cakes. Modern designs like the Probe and Cougar flopped, the last camaro didn't sell too well and the Mustang comfortably outsells everything in it's class. So making what vthe public want is hardly a dull thing to do. IT's actually very clever design that allows Ford to make a car that recalls a 60's car so well given all the safety measures it has to comply with. And who is to say "modern" design is better vthan 60's design because I've not really met anyone who thinks that is automatically true. I still prefer the 240Z to the 350Z and the new GTR is er..well, not attractive.
The Porsche 911 hardly signifies design bankruptcy either - all attempts to ditch the design ahve resulted in a return to what the public wants.
I don't even think the Ultima is in the same league as these production cars. It looks like the mastocephalic offspring of a 60's Can-Am racer so retro is an subjective tag. It also doesn't exactly look comfortable in there:
Blindingly fast it may be but I'd still take the new Corvette ZR1 over it on any day of the week with a Y in it. Pure speed is all very well but comfort, speed humps and I'm pretty sure far less depreciation have to be taken into account.
I also read somewhere, maybe here, that the Ultima price list is one where you can make a car very expensive very quickly indeed.
Maybe these cars are 500kg more but by the time you add all the kit on these cars to an Ultima, do you know what it weighs? You can always buy a Z06 and strip it down by throwing away the air con and leather seats and carpets.
As I said, if it floats your slow boat, go for it.
The Ultimas production weight is 950 kg's, as tested down the Santa Pod dragstrip, with numerous 9.9 second passes.
But when comparing “performance” cars, there is no comparison between the Ultima, the Gin, or the corvette. The world records are on the board for all to see, in black and white.
While the corvette is slower, I’ll grant you that its cheaper than the factory built Ultima, in the UK. As such, it competes on a value for money basis. But if we’re talking about absolute pace, the Corvette loses every single performance discipline you would care to measure.
Why you feel the need to take out carpets, etc, is beyond me. The corvette is simply a slower car. It weighs more, and is less powerful. There really isnt much more to the discussion. And at the DIY price, the Ultima is also cheaper than a corvette bought through a dealer.
And before you go getting all excited about retro products, you may want to think about the longevity of these companies. The way things are going, both Ford and GM are staring down the barrel of bankruptcy. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for them as a car company.
The Ultimas production weight is 950 kg's, as tested down the Santa Pod dragstrip, with numerous 9.9 second passes.
But when comparing “performance” cars, there is no comparison between the Ultima, the Gin, or the corvette. The world records are on the board for all to see, in black and white.
While the corvette is slower, I’ll grant you that its cheaper than the factory built Ultima, in the UK. As such, it competes on a value for money basis. But if we’re talking about absolute pace, the Corvette loses every single performance discipline you would care to measure.
Why you feel the need to take out carpets, etc, is beyond me. The corvette is simply a slower car. It weighs more, and is less powerful. There really isnt much more to the discussion. And at the DIY price, the Ultima is also cheaper than a corvette bought through a dealer.
And before you go getting all excited about retro products, you may want to think about the longevity of these companies. The way things are going, both Ford and GM are staring down the barrel of bankruptcy. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for them as a car company.
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