RE: Breaking News: Tesla in Financial Difficulties?
Discussion
den said:
From my limited point of view, I think their eco credentials, which they were relying on hugely, are blown away by the need for 900Kg of batteries !!! which will be dead cells over time.. which will need replacing at huge cost financially and in energy terms.. and burying in the earth..
What makes you think the batteries will be buried? They can all be successfully re-cycled.
SS7
odyssey2200 said:
Seriously though guys
How many of us would have bought a car that costs £60,000 and had a limeted fuel range, could not be topped up in a filling station to continue your journey and had to be connected over night before it could be used again?
For just over half that you could but an Elise and drive around the world, as long as you couyld fund one of the Millions of petrol stations out there.
Seriously though...the very first motor cars cost as much as a decent house, were only owned by the very very rich and had a very limited range, and look how much they cost now. How many of us would have bought a car that costs £60,000 and had a limeted fuel range, could not be topped up in a filling station to continue your journey and had to be connected over night before it could be used again?
For just over half that you could but an Elise and drive around the world, as long as you couyld fund one of the Millions of petrol stations out there.
That pattern is typical of new technologies and Tesla are brave to launch to early adopters. In due course fully electric cars and PIH's will become more affordable and at £15k I imagine will dominate the market. Why buy a 50mpg family hatchback when you can get a 150mpg equivalent for the same money?
SS7
shoestring7 said:
odyssey2200 said:
Seriously though guys
How many of us would have bought a car that costs £60,000 and had a limited fuel range, could not be topped up in a filling station to continue your journey and had to be connected over night before it could be used again?
For just over half that you could but an Elise and drive around the world, as long as you could fund one of the Millions of petrol stations out there.
Seriously though...the very first motor cars cost as much as a decent house, were only owned by the very very rich and had a very limited range, and look how much they cost now. How many of us would have bought a car that costs £60,000 and had a limited fuel range, could not be topped up in a filling station to continue your journey and had to be connected over night before it could be used again?
For just over half that you could but an Elise and drive around the world, as long as you could fund one of the Millions of petrol stations out there.
That pattern is typical of new technologies and Tesla are brave to launch to early adopters. In due course fully electric cars and PIH's will become more affordable and at £15k I imagine will dominate the market. Why buy a 50mpg family hatchback when you can get a 150mpg equivalent for the same money?
SS7
My point was that as a commercial proposition aiming at a minority segment (sports cars)was never going to yield as much success as making a car with broader appeal.
eg SWMBO commutes about 15 miles each way to work in Bath.
IF there had been an equally good looking electric hatch on the market we could have been tempted.
As it is we have 3 kids so a 2 seater is never going to make it on to our real world shopping list.
By the same token how many sports car owners taker their car to Le Mans each year?
The only Tesla owners at Le Mans would be those that live withing half the cars battery range.
How many Elise owners do spontaneous things like tour Scotland, Evo triangle, the "ring", Euro hoon etc.
There will be zero Tesla owners.
IMHO the characteristics and limitations of Battery power are at odds with a sports car.
I completely understand that from a marketing POV there is a lot of interest in an Electric sports car, which would have an "Halo effect" on the companies other products, but the company doesn't have any other products so they seen to have put the cars before the horse.
Edited by odyssey2200 on Thursday 16th October 14:28
shoestring7 said:
odyssey2200 said:
Seriously though guys
How many of us would have bought a car that costs £60,000 and had a limeted fuel range, could not be topped up in a filling station to continue your journey and had to be connected over night before it could be used again?
For just over half that you could but an Elise and drive around the world, as long as you couyld fund one of the Millions of petrol stations out there.
Seriously though...the very first motor cars cost as much as a decent house, were only owned by the very very rich and had a very limited range, and look how much they cost now. How many of us would have bought a car that costs £60,000 and had a limeted fuel range, could not be topped up in a filling station to continue your journey and had to be connected over night before it could be used again?
For just over half that you could but an Elise and drive around the world, as long as you couyld fund one of the Millions of petrol stations out there.
That pattern is typical of new technologies and Tesla are brave to launch to early adopters. In due course fully electric cars and PIH's will become more affordable and at £15k I imagine will dominate the market. Why buy a 50mpg family hatchback when you can get a 150mpg equivalent for the same money?
SS7
). Now the Tesla batteries are good for more then 1000 full charges with the 200 mile range per charge that means 200.000 miles. And at that point they still have about 60-70% of the original capacity. They are not dead and you can still do about 140 miles per charge.
I own a Tuscan and love the noise of my car but the funny thing is that I also love the silence of the Tesla. The price IMHO is not only acceptable but really good, for this early stage.
On the question how they get the 135mpg with no gallons to count. Energy is measured in J (Joule) and it is exactly known what is the energy value of 1 gallon of petrol as it ist for the 1Wh of electricity. So thats how they can compare.
krisles said:
shoestring7 said:
odyssey2200 said:
Seriously though guys
How many of us would have bought a car that costs £60,000 and had a limeted fuel range, could not be topped up in a filling station to continue your journey and had to be connected over night before it could be used again?
For just over half that you could but an Elise and drive around the world, as long as you couyld fund one of the Millions of petrol stations out there.
Seriously though...the very first motor cars cost as much as a decent house, were only owned by the very very rich and had a very limited range, and look how much they cost now. How many of us would have bought a car that costs £60,000 and had a limeted fuel range, could not be topped up in a filling station to continue your journey and had to be connected over night before it could be used again?
For just over half that you could but an Elise and drive around the world, as long as you couyld fund one of the Millions of petrol stations out there.
That pattern is typical of new technologies and Tesla are brave to launch to early adopters. In due course fully electric cars and PIH's will become more affordable and at £15k I imagine will dominate the market. Why buy a 50mpg family hatchback when you can get a 150mpg equivalent for the same money?
SS7
). Now the Tesla batteries are good for more then 1000 full charges with the 200 mile range per charge that means 200.000 miles. And at that point they still have about 60-70% of the original capacity. They are not dead and you can still do about 140 miles per charge.
I own a Tuscan and love the noise of my car but the funny thing is that I also love the silence of the Tesla. The price IMHO is not only acceptable but really good, for this early stage.
On the question how they get the 135mpg with no gallons to count. Energy is measured in J (Joule) and it is exactly known what is the energy value of 1 gallon of petrol as it ist for the 1Wh of electricity. So thats how they can compare.
No one commuted from the M4 corridor into London daily or took driving holidays to the south of France etc.
And if the range is 200 miles the you had better not plan any journey of more that 100 miles if you intend comming home after dark!
Imagine if every time you took you Tuscan out you had to head for home after 100 miles or sooner if it was getting a bit late and then you could not use it for a few hours.
Edited by odyssey2200 on Thursday 16th October 18:40
Edited by odyssey2200 on Thursday 16th October 18:40
odyssey2200 said:
krisles said:
shoestring7 said:
odyssey2200 said:
Seriously though guys
How many of us would have bought a car that costs £60,000 and had a limeted fuel range, could not be topped up in a filling station to continue your journey and had to be connected over night before it could be used again?
For just over half that you could but an Elise and drive around the world, as long as you couyld fund one of the Millions of petrol stations out there.
Seriously though...the very first motor cars cost as much as a decent house, were only owned by the very very rich and had a very limited range, and look how much they cost now. How many of us would have bought a car that costs £60,000 and had a limeted fuel range, could not be topped up in a filling station to continue your journey and had to be connected over night before it could be used again?
For just over half that you could but an Elise and drive around the world, as long as you couyld fund one of the Millions of petrol stations out there.
That pattern is typical of new technologies and Tesla are brave to launch to early adopters. In due course fully electric cars and PIH's will become more affordable and at £15k I imagine will dominate the market. Why buy a 50mpg family hatchback when you can get a 150mpg equivalent for the same money?
SS7
). Now the Tesla batteries are good for more then 1000 full charges with the 200 mile range per charge that means 200.000 miles. And at that point they still have about 60-70% of the original capacity. They are not dead and you can still do about 140 miles per charge.
I own a Tuscan and love the noise of my car but the funny thing is that I also love the silence of the Tesla. The price IMHO is not only acceptable but really good, for this early stage.
On the question how they get the 135mpg with no gallons to count. Energy is measured in J (Joule) and it is exactly known what is the energy value of 1 gallon of petrol as it ist for the 1Wh of electricity. So thats how they can compare.
No one commuted from the M4 corridor into London daily or took driving holidays to the south of France etc.
And if the range is 200 miles the you had better not plan any journey of more that 100 miles if you intend comming home after dark!
Imagine if every time you took you Tuscan out you had to head for home after 100 miles or sooner if it was getting a bit late and then you could not use it for a few hours.
Edited by odyssey2200 on Thursday 16th October 18:40
Edited by odyssey2200 on Thursday 16th October 18:40
odyssey2200 said:
krisles said:
shoestring7 said:
odyssey2200 said:
Seriously though guys
How many of us would have bought a car that costs £60,000 and had a limeted fuel range, could not be topped up in a filling station to continue your journey and had to be connected over night before it could be used again?
For just over half that you could but an Elise and drive around the world, as long as you couyld fund one of the Millions of petrol stations out there.
Seriously though...the very first motor cars cost as much as a decent house, were only owned by the very very rich and had a very limited range, and look how much they cost now. How many of us would have bought a car that costs £60,000 and had a limeted fuel range, could not be topped up in a filling station to continue your journey and had to be connected over night before it could be used again?
For just over half that you could but an Elise and drive around the world, as long as you couyld fund one of the Millions of petrol stations out there.
That pattern is typical of new technologies and Tesla are brave to launch to early adopters. In due course fully electric cars and PIH's will become more affordable and at £15k I imagine will dominate the market. Why buy a 50mpg family hatchback when you can get a 150mpg equivalent for the same money?
SS7
). Now the Tesla batteries are good for more then 1000 full charges with the 200 mile range per charge that means 200.000 miles. And at that point they still have about 60-70% of the original capacity. They are not dead and you can still do about 140 miles per charge.
I own a Tuscan and love the noise of my car but the funny thing is that I also love the silence of the Tesla. The price IMHO is not only acceptable but really good, for this early stage.
On the question how they get the 135mpg with no gallons to count. Energy is measured in J (Joule) and it is exactly known what is the energy value of 1 gallon of petrol as it ist for the 1Wh of electricity. So thats how they can compare.
No one commuted from the M4 corridor into London daily or took driving holidays to the south of France etc.
And if the range is 200 miles the you had better not plan any journey of more that 100 miles if you intend comming home after dark!
Imagine if every time you took you Tuscan out you had to head for home after 100 miles or sooner if it was getting a bit late and then you could not use it for a few hours.
Edited by odyssey2200 on Thursday 16th October 18:40
Edited by odyssey2200 on Thursday 16th October 18:40
SS7
Wilburo said:
This is a real shame - sure it didn't have Pistons, but showed that sexy cars had a future. A far more exciting green prospect than anything Lexus is going to make.
Which other petrol 4x4 can do 30 mpg+ in town ? Gotta say I am quite dissapointed about the all so precious sound of cars . Let me tell you something, most cars sound like a bag of poo, thats if you ever heard one . There are a few exceptions but nothing that mere mortals can afford unless you happen to drive a silly saxo with a magnex exhaust and think thats exotic.
And no , you shouldn't be able to hear any 5+sec car from miles away
Edited by mike_1985 on Saturday 18th October 02:20
Afternoon, no real opinion on electric technology or Tesla, but I was reading in new Scientist this week about new battery technology. The charging problem is that with a lithium-ion battery the charging process has to remove lithium from the cathode to the anode, which takes time.
A new technology involves coating lithium ions in carbon, presumably that stops binding to the cathode, they quoted typical charge times for a mobile phone of 10 seconds and about 10 mins for a car.
So perhaps there is a future in batteries.
A new technology involves coating lithium ions in carbon, presumably that stops binding to the cathode, they quoted typical charge times for a mobile phone of 10 seconds and about 10 mins for a car.
So perhaps there is a future in batteries.
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