cavallino conspiracy
Discussion
I just so happened to be watching telly early on sunday morning. This is what i saw.
Schumacher did his customary pap getaway and then his customary scythe across p2's (Montoya) bows. Montoya was level going into the first, right-hand bend, and proceeded to go around the outside until schumacher had had enough and punted him straight off, taking off his nosecone in the process. I think goodyear need to look into big spears to stick on their front wheels for just such an eventuality.
Result : Montoya has to drive through the pits (lost 20secs). Schumi : scot free. Also some very dodgy goings on with Sauber : get their engines (and a lot more unspecified..?) from ferrari, and they're in such a hurry to get out of any ferrari's way, even when 'racing for position', that they're practically parking in the layby as the reds sail past.
They need to have a word with Bernoldi: overtaken by Schumi, then took him straight back at the next corner. He's a class act! (remember Coulthard, Monaco?)
The whole thing is corrupt as hell.
It's a shame Mclaren are doing so badly as that will clearly detract from the inevitable and this time righteous whinge by Dennis. They ARE all out to get you, ronnie...
Schumacher did his customary pap getaway and then his customary scythe across p2's (Montoya) bows. Montoya was level going into the first, right-hand bend, and proceeded to go around the outside until schumacher had had enough and punted him straight off, taking off his nosecone in the process. I think goodyear need to look into big spears to stick on their front wheels for just such an eventuality.
Result : Montoya has to drive through the pits (lost 20secs). Schumi : scot free. Also some very dodgy goings on with Sauber : get their engines (and a lot more unspecified..?) from ferrari, and they're in such a hurry to get out of any ferrari's way, even when 'racing for position', that they're practically parking in the layby as the reds sail past.
They need to have a word with Bernoldi: overtaken by Schumi, then took him straight back at the next corner. He's a class act! (remember Coulthard, Monaco?)
The whole thing is corrupt as hell.
It's a shame Mclaren are doing so badly as that will clearly detract from the inevitable and this time righteous whinge by Dennis. They ARE all out to get you, ronnie...
Castex, your conspiracy theories area little wide of the mark. It's worth remembering that we are still dealing with human nature here - even in F1 - and there is usually a very understandable reason for the things you see 'on the box'. Not necessarily virtuous, but certainly understandable!
Unfortunately commentators and journalists have to be careful to report diplomatically - they don't want to end up in court - and as a result the facts cannot be made public, and you end up with a completely distorted picture.
An analysis of the first corner collision shows that Montoya turned in a bit sharpish at the beginning of the corner, squeezing Schumacher onto the rumble strip where he lost front-end grip and generated understeer.
They touched almost immediately and the Ferrari lost its front wing. Complete loss of front-end downforce cost Schumacher the ability to turn in, and that is why he ran so wide through the rest of the corner.
The Steward's decision was based entirely on Montoya forcing Schumacher onto the rumble strip, and I don't think they could avoid imposing the penalty. Something has to be done about these first corner incidents, and you can expect some pretty firm action whenever they arise during the rest of the season.
P.S. Autosport will take a very different view - helps to sell the mag!
Unfortunately commentators and journalists have to be careful to report diplomatically - they don't want to end up in court - and as a result the facts cannot be made public, and you end up with a completely distorted picture.
An analysis of the first corner collision shows that Montoya turned in a bit sharpish at the beginning of the corner, squeezing Schumacher onto the rumble strip where he lost front-end grip and generated understeer.
They touched almost immediately and the Ferrari lost its front wing. Complete loss of front-end downforce cost Schumacher the ability to turn in, and that is why he ran so wide through the rest of the corner.
The Steward's decision was based entirely on Montoya forcing Schumacher onto the rumble strip, and I don't think they could avoid imposing the penalty. Something has to be done about these first corner incidents, and you can expect some pretty firm action whenever they arise during the rest of the season.
P.S. Autosport will take a very different view - helps to sell the mag!
McNab, I agree with most of what you say, but why is Schumaker M never penalised for his start line antics of swerving across in front of the second position car, this has to be very dangerous for all involved. For Montoya to be penalised like that was a bit harsh, I thought he had the position on the track, Schuey was trying to come up the inside and Montoya closed the door, maybe a bit firmly, but not penalisable I'd have thought. I will of course bow to your vastly superior knowledge in these matters if you disagree.
Kevin,
No vastly superior knowledge here!! The first corner problem goes back quite a long way, and despite FIA rules it hasn't been cured. Sadly one of the factors involved has been the improvement in driver safety, and the other is F1's overtaking difficulty.
Put yourself in the driver's seat. You get the thing off the line well, and you know instantly that you have a chance to make up half-a-dozen places. You also know that the penalty for a coming-together is unlikely to be death.
So you have a go and hope the other guy(s) will chicken out. Your team manager will be cross if you bend the thing, but you get more Brownie Points for effort than you do for caution, so you nip across to the inside position for the first corner - an obvious advantage, because the opposition will run wide to give you room.
All this was realised long before Michael Schumacher was invented, and much insane swervery became habitual. Eventually the FIA tried to think up a rule which would leave one or two cars in the race, and they decided that one swerve would be legal.
Michael Schumacher's swerve is therefore within the rules, and he uses it when he can. Other drivers use it when thay can too. It's perfectly legal, so I think we have to forget that bit of the action until the FIA comes up with something better.
Let's move on to the first corner. He who is blessed with the luck to get to the beginning (not the apex) of the first corner, on the inside line and at a speed which allows him to motor round it, is entitled to continue unmolested, and that is the point on which the Stewards made their decision.
Unmolested means the bloke on the outside must give the 'insider' enough room to stay on the road - not force him over the rumble strip or onto the grass. On Sunday JPM cut in too soon, forcing MS well onto the rumbly, with the consequences I mentioned in my earlier post.
I have studied the thing in slo-mo very carefully indeed, knowing there would be a row, and my telly definitely shows both cars arriving at the corner side-by-side, JPM cutting in a shade too sharply, MS going onto the rumbly (front wheel two-thirds across it), and all the silly consequences thereafter.
Whatever opinion you form on these incidents, please remember three things. People are very strung-up at the start. They haven't got very good side visibility. Their decisions are made in a milli-second (and can often be wrong).
If you take all three into account you can understand the term 'racing accident' (or 'incident'), and perhaps give the drivers the benefit of the doubt, whoever they may be. Having stuck my head above the parapet, I hope you will give me the benefit of the doubt too!!!
No vastly superior knowledge here!! The first corner problem goes back quite a long way, and despite FIA rules it hasn't been cured. Sadly one of the factors involved has been the improvement in driver safety, and the other is F1's overtaking difficulty.
Put yourself in the driver's seat. You get the thing off the line well, and you know instantly that you have a chance to make up half-a-dozen places. You also know that the penalty for a coming-together is unlikely to be death.
So you have a go and hope the other guy(s) will chicken out. Your team manager will be cross if you bend the thing, but you get more Brownie Points for effort than you do for caution, so you nip across to the inside position for the first corner - an obvious advantage, because the opposition will run wide to give you room.
All this was realised long before Michael Schumacher was invented, and much insane swervery became habitual. Eventually the FIA tried to think up a rule which would leave one or two cars in the race, and they decided that one swerve would be legal.
Michael Schumacher's swerve is therefore within the rules, and he uses it when he can. Other drivers use it when thay can too. It's perfectly legal, so I think we have to forget that bit of the action until the FIA comes up with something better.
Let's move on to the first corner. He who is blessed with the luck to get to the beginning (not the apex) of the first corner, on the inside line and at a speed which allows him to motor round it, is entitled to continue unmolested, and that is the point on which the Stewards made their decision.
Unmolested means the bloke on the outside must give the 'insider' enough room to stay on the road - not force him over the rumble strip or onto the grass. On Sunday JPM cut in too soon, forcing MS well onto the rumbly, with the consequences I mentioned in my earlier post.
I have studied the thing in slo-mo very carefully indeed, knowing there would be a row, and my telly definitely shows both cars arriving at the corner side-by-side, JPM cutting in a shade too sharply, MS going onto the rumbly (front wheel two-thirds across it), and all the silly consequences thereafter.
Whatever opinion you form on these incidents, please remember three things. People are very strung-up at the start. They haven't got very good side visibility. Their decisions are made in a milli-second (and can often be wrong).
If you take all three into account you can understand the term 'racing accident' (or 'incident'), and perhaps give the drivers the benefit of the doubt, whoever they may be. Having stuck my head above the parapet, I hope you will give me the benefit of the doubt too!!!
quote:
right, Ive missed something! What happened! I saw the first corner, I would put that down to a racing incident! I also so the Jordans
What have/did the stewards say about the first corner?!?!
JPM got a 10 sec stop/go penalty.
McNab, you are being very 'polite' to say 'no superior knowledge here'. To me it is obvious you have a much greater level of knowledge then myself and, probably, most PHers. This is only natural so do not hide your light under a bushel. Following your explanation I understand what you said re JPM.
I was impressed with the maturity of both drivers in their comments after the race. Both said racing incident, both seem ready for a major scrap. Whether or not the cards are stacked in MS's favour, Montoya clearly couldn't give a toss. Very refreshing.
If they can keep it on the track for any time at all, we're all in for a treat, I'd say.
I confess I hadn't studied the first corner very carefully before i opened my big mouth.
I didn't even see the incident live, as a combination of the 8am start and the fact i was watching it in Norwegian 'conspired' to cause me to spend the first two whole laps watching the ferrari pitcrew watching telly. Oh no! I'll get the hang of it for the next one.
If they can keep it on the track for any time at all, we're all in for a treat, I'd say.
I confess I hadn't studied the first corner very carefully before i opened my big mouth.
I didn't even see the incident live, as a combination of the 8am start and the fact i was watching it in Norwegian 'conspired' to cause me to spend the first two whole laps watching the ferrari pitcrew watching telly. Oh no! I'll get the hang of it for the next one.
Kevin, the thing is I tend to see these things from the drivers' point of view. I'm not a supporter of any particular driver in F1 - it hurts too much if your man does badly!
I had two of these first corner dramas - at a time when the penalty could be someone's funeral, which is why they were so rare in those days. One was understandable, and both of us are good friends to this day.
The other was intentional (I think) and had awful consequences. The 'inside line driver' was well-known for being a hard racer, and I should have guessed the scenario in advance. He drifted wide from the inside, and I went wider to avoid contact.
I got off the black bit, went airborne, and ploughed into seven spectators (none killed). It was like a battlefield, and I walked back to the pits helmet in hand, determined that I would never drive again.
The 'supremo' of British racing at the time was a kindly man, and seeing the somewhat hysterical state of yours truly, he marched me off to his car, poured half a bottle of brandy down my throat, and gave me a damn good lecture.
Apparently the spectators had climbed over the fencing and were watching from the ouside of the corner. The marshals just hadn't noticed, and that was that. So it wasn't my 'fault', was it? Maybe not, but I still feel it nearly fifty years later.
It's a bloody hard world, if you'll excuse the French, and I have to admit I find today's on-track behaviour a little hard to swallow. I suppose that's why I look at these things so hard.
By the way, how did everyone see the Coulthard/Bernoldi affair at Monaco last year? I would be interested in your verdict.
I had two of these first corner dramas - at a time when the penalty could be someone's funeral, which is why they were so rare in those days. One was understandable, and both of us are good friends to this day.
The other was intentional (I think) and had awful consequences. The 'inside line driver' was well-known for being a hard racer, and I should have guessed the scenario in advance. He drifted wide from the inside, and I went wider to avoid contact.
I got off the black bit, went airborne, and ploughed into seven spectators (none killed). It was like a battlefield, and I walked back to the pits helmet in hand, determined that I would never drive again.
The 'supremo' of British racing at the time was a kindly man, and seeing the somewhat hysterical state of yours truly, he marched me off to his car, poured half a bottle of brandy down my throat, and gave me a damn good lecture.
Apparently the spectators had climbed over the fencing and were watching from the ouside of the corner. The marshals just hadn't noticed, and that was that. So it wasn't my 'fault', was it? Maybe not, but I still feel it nearly fifty years later.
It's a bloody hard world, if you'll excuse the French, and I have to admit I find today's on-track behaviour a little hard to swallow. I suppose that's why I look at these things so hard.
By the way, how did everyone see the Coulthard/Bernoldi affair at Monaco last year? I would be interested in your verdict.
Coulthard appears at times singularly unable to overtake. The fact that he couldn't get past the orange milk-float, even if at Monaco, would suggest he needs some bank holiday A-road practice.
Bravo to any driver who has the gumption to defend his position in the face of seemingly impossible odds.
Bravo to any driver who has the gumption to defend his position in the face of seemingly impossible odds.
Stuff it. I used to be an avid F1 fan These days, they might as well call it 'WWF1' for all the relation it bears to reality! It's fixed so that it's interesting. Has been for the last five years. Yes, I know it's all 'coincidences' but come on, with the stewards there to balance the books, it's always going to artificial.
My tip. Watch just one World Superbike or bike GP race on TV and see the difference - people swapping positions faster than Benini cards in the playground. Now that's REALLY exciting!
My tip. Watch just one World Superbike or bike GP race on TV and see the difference - people swapping positions faster than Benini cards in the playground. Now that's REALLY exciting!
Not 'fixed' gibboon, but I won't argue!!
Certainly agree about Moto GP. Best racing in the world - sheer bravery with incredible skill - I watch them all.
Re Coulthard/Bernoldi, if you had Walkinshaw on the radio you'd have driven the thing to hell and back, and blocked every corner while you were at it!!
Certainly agree about Moto GP. Best racing in the world - sheer bravery with incredible skill - I watch them all.
Re Coulthard/Bernoldi, if you had Walkinshaw on the radio you'd have driven the thing to hell and back, and blocked every corner while you were at it!!
I did not see Monaco last year, but DC does seem to find it hard to overtake sometimes. My preferred viewing is Tuscans and BTCC but I do not get that on TV here so have to 'make-do' with F1 in Hungarian or German, my Hungarian is poor and my German non-existent. The american zone on Eurosport shows Cart and other boring circular stuff, although we do see GT sometimes, usually only highlights.
McNab, your drivers view is what makes your comments so valuable, keep it up please!
McNab, your drivers view is what makes your comments so valuable, keep it up please!
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