RE: Lotus Terminates European Dealer Network
Discussion
bertie said:
Lotus business plan is to have 5 models and sell 10,000 cars, more than Aston, Ferrari and Bentley.
How realistic does that sound to you?
Well it isn't even remotely realistic unless of course they move downmarket and produce much cheaper vehicles for the masses. In that case then they will lose their niche appeal. How realistic does that sound to you?
But the upside is of course that if this new strategy causes them to go phut then it might become a UK company again.
bertie said:
Lotus business plan is to have 5 models and sell 10,000 cars, more than Aston, Ferrari and Bentley.
How realistic does that sound to you?
They've got the platform that can be used for most of the range without compromising the Lotus pedigree. I'm guessing we'll see something like a Lotus city car and re-vamped Elise sell a good chunk of those numbers into a part of the market Aston, Ferrari and Bentley can't touch. How realistic does that sound to you?
That has to be a part of the Lotus strategy as they can only dodge the EU emissions fines (which are astronomic) if their average CO2 across all cars that they sell is low enough. So selling that many cars is not only desirable, it's almost unavoidable unless you are part of a larger group or have a premium brand that can absorb the costs (which work out at something like £5K+ a car).
Edited by Tuna on Friday 9th July 11:21
cathalm said:
Same responses as the last article on this subject. I despair of PH.
Why do you think that you are getting the same responses from a different bunch of people? Doesn't it strike you that there may be a grain of truth in the opinions of many successful people who operate in all areas of the economy?Open your eyes! if anything, we are the people that should be supporting lotus, and we aren't. I realise that they are in trouble and their existing business model isn't working any more, but the brand will not support a suicidal lunge upmarket.
RIP Lotus, you will be missed
Greg
A Scotsman said:
bertie said:
Lotus business plan is to have 5 models and sell 10,000 cars, more than Aston, Ferrari and Bentley.
How realistic does that sound to you?
Well it isn't even remotely realistic unless of course they move downmarket and produce much cheaper vehicles for the masses. In that case then they will lose their niche appeal. How realistic does that sound to you?
But the upside is of course that if this new strategy causes them to go phut then it might become a UK company again.
bertie said:
A Scotsman said:
bertie said:
Lotus business plan is to have 5 models and sell 10,000 cars, more than Aston, Ferrari and Bentley.
How realistic does that sound to you?
Well it isn't even remotely realistic unless of course they move downmarket and produce much cheaper vehicles for the masses. In that case then they will lose their niche appeal. How realistic does that sound to you?
But the upside is of course that if this new strategy causes them to go phut then it might become a UK company again.
Greg_D said:
cathalm said:
Same responses as the last article on this subject. I despair of PH.
Why do you think that you are getting the same responses from a different bunch of people? Doesn't it strike you that there may be a grain of truth in the opinions of many successful people who operate in all areas of the economy?You can be as successful as you like - if you don't know what a company is planning, what it's current business is like and how the market and regulations are changing, then why should your opinion count for anything? Yes, you want a nice sports car for two pounds fifty - great, I'll write that up as a business strategy, why the
didn't I think of that before? Seriously, me, look at the replies to this thread and tell me you don't sniff just a whiff of cretinous armchair criticism? ... and breathe..
It's not that I could claim to know any more, but at least I'm trying to understand what they're up to rather than pronouncing the company dead with every news headline.
In this case, it's helpful to know that the dealers are currently contracted with a two year notice period. So for Lotus to change the terms of those contracts, they have to start negotiations a long time in advance. Existing dealers are free to re-apply for a contract, but the terms are likely to be different. Lotus have done this before to sort out problems with the dealership network and interestingly the 'big name' dealers don't seem to be up in arms right now. As it is, they currently have a number of underperforming dealers, and particularly in Europe are not served very well. If you believe that the Elise will sell well when tucked in amongst Vauxhall vans, then you probably won't see that as a problem.
Tuna said:
Greg_D said:
cathalm said:
Same responses as the last article on this subject. I despair of PH.
Why do you think that you are getting the same responses from a different bunch of people? Doesn't it strike you that there may be a grain of truth in the opinions of many successful people who operate in all areas of the economy?You can be as successful as you like - if you don't know what a company is planning, what it's current business is like and how the market and regulations are changing, then why should your opinion count for anything? Yes, you want a nice sports car for two pounds fifty - great, I'll write that up as a business strategy, why the
didn't I think of that before? Seriously, me, look at the replies to this thread and tell me you don't sniff just a whiff of cretinous armchair criticism? ... and breathe..
It's not that I could claim to know any more, but at least I'm trying to understand what they're up to rather than pronouncing the company dead with every news headline.
In this case, it's helpful to know that the dealers are currently contracted with a two year notice period. So for Lotus to change the terms of those contracts, they have to start negotiations a long time in advance. Existing dealers are free to re-apply for a contract, but the terms are likely to be different. Lotus have done this before to sort out problems with the dealership network and interestingly the 'big name' dealers don't seem to be up in arms right now. As it is, they currently have a number of underperforming dealers, and particularly in Europe are not served very well. If you believe that the Elise will sell well when tucked in amongst Vauxhall vans, then you probably won't see that as a problem.
I applaud your enthusiasm and trust, but i don't share it
Call it armchair punditry if you like, but i suppose only in the fullness of time will we see who is right
Greg
Tuna said:
I'm with cathalm on this one - the same responses are all to the shock headlines, and virtually all ignore the details of the stories. It's pretty clear that most commentators on PH haven't a clue what Lotus are doing and have no idea what the model range is going to be.
We do know the bones of the plan, 5 models, all £50k plus, target volume 10,000 cars.I ask again, does that sound viable ?
We have seen this before, an British established brand being repositioned, MG, TVR, all ended in tears but those in positions of power often end up being quite well off thank you.
Now is not the time for dealing in dreams, most of the range is too old, the new one is a great car but not worth what they want to sell it for.
The money they are wasting on this daydreaming should be put into products, and then and sales through what you already have as a network - then you can start dreaming, not before.
Now is not the time for dealing in dreams, most of the range is too old, the new one is a great car but not worth what they want to sell it for.
The money they are wasting on this daydreaming should be put into products, and then and sales through what you already have as a network - then you can start dreaming, not before.
Greg_D said:
And you think that a company that EVER allows it's 'premium' product to be sold alongside vans is going to come out with a strategy to out-porsche porsche!
So... they can't compete with Porsche because their dealer network needs shaking up? Maybe they should do something about that?....Greg_D said:
I applaud your enthusiasm and trust, but i don't share it
Call it armchair punditry if you like, but i suppose only in the fullness of time will we see who is right
Greg
Don't get me wrong, I'm not predicting a rosy future for Lotus and have no idea whether I'm going to like their new car line up. However, there is some logic in what they're up to and none of the recent announcements are particularly surprising if you've been watching them for any time. Call it armchair punditry if you like, but i suppose only in the fullness of time will we see who is right
Greg
What annoys me is that a lot of people talk the company down with every single announcement they make. You'd think the company was enemy number one the way that their cars get denigrated on these forums. The Evora, Elise, 2-11, Exige and even the Europa all get consistently good reviews, but all you get on here is some pretty dense commentary about them being unreliable, hard to get into and expensive.
Tuna said:
What annoys me is that a lot of people talk the company down with every single announcement they make. You'd think the company was enemy number one the way that their cars get denigrated on these forums. The Evora, Elise, 2-11, Exige and even the Europa all get consistently good reviews, but all you get on here is some pretty dense commentary about them being unreliable, hard to get into and expensive.
I honestly don't think that's the case, I've not seen one reply on this thread that criticises the actual product at all.I think we all agree they are great drivers cars, good looking and fun, but trying to compete with Aston / Porsche / Ferrari / Lamborghini not to mention Audi R8, AMG Mercedes or BMW M division is, even in the most charitable view, a big stretch and a bold move!
But believe me, I'd be very very happy to be proved wrong!
We only comment because we care about Lotus.
No one wants to by a track car for the road! Get over it, im glad Lotus have finally seen the light and are going to make the cars they should be making!!
If the cars are good then why wouldn't someone buy one over a porche or bentley? People who buy these types of cars dont care about the price, a car is cheap compared to other toys like helicopters, boats and planes....
If the cars are good then why wouldn't someone buy one over a porche or bentley? People who buy these types of cars dont care about the price, a car is cheap compared to other toys like helicopters, boats and planes....
Tuna said:
Greg_D said:
And you think that a company that EVER allows it's 'premium' product to be sold alongside vans is going to come out with a strategy to out-porsche porsche!
So... they can't compete with Porsche because their dealer network needs shaking up? Maybe they should do something about that?....Greg_D said:
I applaud your enthusiasm and trust, but i don't share it
Call it armchair punditry if you like, but i suppose only in the fullness of time will we see who is right
Greg
Don't get me wrong, I'm not predicting a rosy future for Lotus and have no idea whether I'm going to like their new car line up. However, there is some logic in what they're up to and none of the recent announcements are particularly surprising if you've been watching them for any time. Call it armchair punditry if you like, but i suppose only in the fullness of time will we see who is right
Greg
What annoys me is that a lot of people talk the company down with every single announcement they make. You'd think the company was enemy number one the way that their cars get denigrated on these forums. The Evora, Elise, 2-11, Exige and even the Europa all get consistently good reviews, but all you get on here is some pretty dense commentary about them being unreliable, hard to get into and expensive.
They are going into a very well established market chock full of premium players who have been investing heavily in their brand and product for decades and you think that just because lotus gets rid of the vans and saabs and puts their cars in a glass palace that they will be successful at treble their historical price point.
I fear it is you who misunderstands buyers true motivation when buying mega-premium cars, it's all about the badge, and a lotus badge doesn't impress anyone at the wine bar when parked next to a ferrari or aston.
I know that they handle well and certain people will see that and buy purely on that basis, but cartainly not anywhere near 10,000 units a year (that much has been proved already with sales of Europa/evora)
Greg
bertie said:
Tuna said:
I'm with cathalm on this one - the same responses are all to the shock headlines, and virtually all ignore the details of the stories. It's pretty clear that most commentators on PH haven't a clue what Lotus are doing and have no idea what the model range is going to be.
We do know the bones of the plan, 5 models, all £50k plus, target volume 10,000 cars.bertie said:
I ask again, does that sound viable ?
Well, as no-one seems to have a clear idea of what their line up is actually going to be, and they have attracted the talents of some industry heavyweights as well as retaining Proton's shilling, I'm willing to guess they have more of a clue than you do. I'm certainly not writing them off on the grounds of a plan that I don't actually know. Nor am I willing to assume they can only sell to one end of the market when their history has shown they have shifted from one end to the other with successive generations.Tuna said:
bertie said:
Tuna said:
I'm with cathalm on this one - the same responses are all to the shock headlines, and virtually all ignore the details of the stories. It's pretty clear that most commentators on PH haven't a clue what Lotus are doing and have no idea what the model range is going to be.
We do know the bones of the plan, 5 models, all £50k plus, target volume 10,000 cars.bertie said:
I ask again, does that sound viable ?
Well, as no-one seems to have a clear idea of what their line up is actually going to be, and they have attracted the talents of some industry heavyweights as well as retaining Proton's shilling, I'm willing to guess they have more of a clue than you do. I'm certainly not writing them off on the grounds of a plan that I don't actually know. Nor am I willing to assume they can only sell to one end of the market when their history has shown they have shifted from one end to the other with successive generations.As you point out, neither of us know what the other might know.
bertie said:
I can't.
It's like Tesco trying to compete with Dolce & Gabana, or Peugeot / Renault trying to compete with BMW / Mercedes, it's just never going to work.
Thats daft.It's like Tesco trying to compete with Dolce & Gabana, or Peugeot / Renault trying to compete with BMW / Mercedes, it's just never going to work.
Lotus were producing cars as direct challengers for Ferrari's at one point in the not too distant past. To many Lotus has a massive heritage and would be very willing to buy an expensive Lotus badged car.
But they need to be quality products and more essentially they need to stick to Colin's original ethos.
Edited by Gary C on Monday 12th July 12:56
bertie said:
Tuna said:
I'm with cathalm on this one - the same responses are all to the shock headlines, and virtually all ignore the details of the stories. It's pretty clear that most commentators on PH haven't a clue what Lotus are doing and have no idea what the model range is going to be.
We do know the bones of the plan, 5 models, all £50k plus, target volume 10,000 cars.I ask again, does that sound viable ?
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