RE: Coventry Company Buys Out Spyker
Discussion
Sales figures for SAAB released earlier this year paints a somewhat better picture than some here might think
http://www.spykercars.nl/download/investor/Saab_20...
http://www.spykercars.nl/download/investor/Saab_20...
king arthur said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
That's easy
The leading management of Spyker buy Saab for 2p and then borrow huge amounts of money from the banks and the EU to keep it going.
The leading management of Spyker then pay themselves massive wages out of the money they've got from the banks/EU while actually investing very little in the product, the plant or the marketing.
The leading management of Spyker then sell the only tangible asset they have in order to ring fence any capital for themselves before....
Saab come crashing down, leaving massive debts and hundreds of people out of work, while the EU tax-payers and the banks shareholders pick up the tab. (How many new shape 9-5s have you actually seen on the road?)
Leaving the leading management of Spyker to say "Sorry everyone," before riding off into the sunset secure in the knowledge that they'll never have to work again while everyone else who spent their lives working for a once proud brand is left penniless, unemployed and wondering how they are going to put food on the table.
Its called Doing A Rover.
And now here's Tom with the weather... How's it looking, Tom?
Just about sums it up. I don't know about Spyker, but can anyone really see Saab surviving another year?The leading management of Spyker buy Saab for 2p and then borrow huge amounts of money from the banks and the EU to keep it going.
The leading management of Spyker then pay themselves massive wages out of the money they've got from the banks/EU while actually investing very little in the product, the plant or the marketing.
The leading management of Spyker then sell the only tangible asset they have in order to ring fence any capital for themselves before....
Saab come crashing down, leaving massive debts and hundreds of people out of work, while the EU tax-payers and the banks shareholders pick up the tab. (How many new shape 9-5s have you actually seen on the road?)
Leaving the leading management of Spyker to say "Sorry everyone," before riding off into the sunset secure in the knowledge that they'll never have to work again while everyone else who spent their lives working for a once proud brand is left penniless, unemployed and wondering how they are going to put food on the table.
Its called Doing A Rover.
And now here's Tom with the weather... How's it looking, Tom?
V8 GRF said:
Sales figures for SAAB released earlier this year paints a somewhat better picture than some here might think
http://www.spykercars.nl/download/investor/Saab_20...
Well, they do and they don't.http://www.spykercars.nl/download/investor/Saab_20...
I'm afraid we're into the land of lies, lies & statistics here. But first of all, let me say again on PH I have no grudge at all against Saab. I sold their cars for 8 years and enjoyed every minute until I saw the way the GM wind was blowing but...
Just in the UK last year Saab registered 6000 cars, Lexus registered 6200 and Porsche (in the middle of a recession) registered 6800.
When I was selling Saab, we were always taught that our prinicple opposition was BMW & Audi. They did 99000 & 109000 last year. Jaguar (who now haven't even really got the XType to sell) also managed 16000. So just in case anyone missed that, Audi & BMW did 3 times the amount of sales that Saab achived worldwide last year, in the UK alone..
So far this year both Audi & BMW have registered units between 8000 - 8800, Saab have registered 452. (Lexus managed 469, Jaguar 856.)
Now I know that the UK is one of the biggest target markets for ze Germans but with the great black hole that was GM's accounts department gone, how do those sales figures add up to a level of sustainable business? Let alone manage to fund improvements to the model range and investment in new product, which at the end of the day is why they are in the mess they are in now. The whole Spyker buy out was very good for GM because when it all goes breasts up they will be able to say "Not our fault, Spykers bad management," so the massive job losses won't bounce back on them and the Spyker people will be too busy counting their money on a beach somewhere to worry.
As I said they are Doing A Rover, which as someone who once loved the product, makes me very sad indeed.
& FYI I hope you can appreciate how seriously I take this subject as I let both the mention of Gaydon and Brownhills go by without posting 'that' picture.
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Thursday 24th February 19:04
Debaser said:
Escort Si-130 said:
Manufacturing in the UK is dead.
I don't agree with that. The most productive car plant in Europe is in the UK.Daily Telegraph said:
Manufacturing still accounts for a surprisingly large amount of the economy – about 12pc, a larger share than financial services' 9pc. People find this surprising, because they do not come across many UK-manufactured products in their daily lives. By contrast, they cannot fail to notice the dominance of German and Chinese producers in many fields. The UK has quasi-dominant positions in only two large manufacturing sectors, namely pharmaceuticals and aerospace. But we have many niche producers spread over umpteen sectors. And the UK is still the world's sixth-largest producer of manufactured goods.
Manufacturing's share of GDP in the UK is also little different from the share in other advanced economies, with the notable exception of Germany, where it is about 24pc. But in France, manufacturing's share is about the same as in the UK, and in the US it is actually lower.
True, manufacturing used to account for a much larger share of the UK's GDP. In 1970 it was more than 30pc. But the subsequent sharp fall wasn't exceptional either. All advanced countries have experienced the same phenomenon. Nor is this all about losing manufacturing to emerging economies in Asia and elsewhere, where costs are lower. The simple fact is that as people get richer they tend to want to spend a higher proportion of their incomes on services rather than on goods.
This does not mean that the absolute amount of goods that people want to buy falls or, therefore, that the absolute amount of manufactured output in the UK must necessarily fall over time. Indeed, until recently anyway, it didn't. Despite the fall in the sector's share of overall output, in absolute terms, the amount produced by the manufacturing sector has increased decade by decade.
The picture was, however, very different in the 2000s. Even before the financial and economic crisis, manufacturing output had barely increased. After the plunge, during the crisis itself, it finished the decade about 11pc lower than in 1999.
So is it all gloom and doom? I don't think so. For a start, the manufactured goods which the UK has stopped producing have – by and large – been low-value-added manufactured goods. In contrast, the country has continued to increase production in high-tech areas. At the peak in 2007, for example, although output of textiles was about 30pc lower than in 2000, the output of the chemicals industries was about 20pc higher.
Furthermore, given the severity of the drop in manufacturing output seen during the recession, the sector is likely to remain unconstrained by capacity limits for some time to come. Nor will output be held back by a shortage of skilled labour. Since labour was not shed at anything like the rate that output fell, it should be possible to produce more without employing more people.
Since about 45pc of all of UK manufactured goods are exported, the pound is critical. For more than a decade it was much too high. It now looks to be at a competitive level. This means that producing UK goods for export, and to replace imports, is more profitable than it has been since the period after we came out of the ERM in the early 1990s.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that the UK is going to experience a huge manufacturing revival as we move back into many of the areas which we recently left to the Chinese and others. Even after the pound's fall, our costs are simply not low enough – and they never will be. But I would not be surprised to see the manufacturing sector outperform the rest of the economy over the next few years, so that its share of GDP increases somewhat, before resuming the downward path which is normal in advanced economies.
This is also interesting http://tutor2u.net/economics/content/essentials/ma...Manufacturing's share of GDP in the UK is also little different from the share in other advanced economies, with the notable exception of Germany, where it is about 24pc. But in France, manufacturing's share is about the same as in the UK, and in the US it is actually lower.
True, manufacturing used to account for a much larger share of the UK's GDP. In 1970 it was more than 30pc. But the subsequent sharp fall wasn't exceptional either. All advanced countries have experienced the same phenomenon. Nor is this all about losing manufacturing to emerging economies in Asia and elsewhere, where costs are lower. The simple fact is that as people get richer they tend to want to spend a higher proportion of their incomes on services rather than on goods.
This does not mean that the absolute amount of goods that people want to buy falls or, therefore, that the absolute amount of manufactured output in the UK must necessarily fall over time. Indeed, until recently anyway, it didn't. Despite the fall in the sector's share of overall output, in absolute terms, the amount produced by the manufacturing sector has increased decade by decade.
The picture was, however, very different in the 2000s. Even before the financial and economic crisis, manufacturing output had barely increased. After the plunge, during the crisis itself, it finished the decade about 11pc lower than in 1999.
So is it all gloom and doom? I don't think so. For a start, the manufactured goods which the UK has stopped producing have – by and large – been low-value-added manufactured goods. In contrast, the country has continued to increase production in high-tech areas. At the peak in 2007, for example, although output of textiles was about 30pc lower than in 2000, the output of the chemicals industries was about 20pc higher.
Furthermore, given the severity of the drop in manufacturing output seen during the recession, the sector is likely to remain unconstrained by capacity limits for some time to come. Nor will output be held back by a shortage of skilled labour. Since labour was not shed at anything like the rate that output fell, it should be possible to produce more without employing more people.
Since about 45pc of all of UK manufactured goods are exported, the pound is critical. For more than a decade it was much too high. It now looks to be at a competitive level. This means that producing UK goods for export, and to replace imports, is more profitable than it has been since the period after we came out of the ERM in the early 1990s.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that the UK is going to experience a huge manufacturing revival as we move back into many of the areas which we recently left to the Chinese and others. Even after the pound's fall, our costs are simply not low enough – and they never will be. But I would not be surprised to see the manufacturing sector outperform the rest of the economy over the next few years, so that its share of GDP increases somewhat, before resuming the downward path which is normal in advanced economies.
but never let the facts get in the way of a good whinge.
Edited by Pothole on Thursday 24th February 19:31
EFA
Edited by Pothole on Thursday 24th February 20:47
Pothole said:
Debaser said:
Escort Si-130 said:
Manufacturing in the UK is dead.
I don't agree with that. The most productive car plant in Europe is in the UK.Daily Telegraph said:
Manufacturing still accounts for a surprisingly large amount of the economy – about 12pc, a larger share than financial services' 9pc. People find this surprising, because they do not come across many UK-manufactured products in their daily lives. By contrast, they cannot fail to notice the dominance of German and Chinese producers in many fields. The UK has quasi-dominant positions in only two large manufacturing sectors, namely pharmaceuticals and aerospace. But we have many niche producers spread over umpteen sectors. And the UK is still the world's sixth-largest producer of manufactured goods.
Manufacturing's share of GDP in the UK is also little different from the share in other advanced economies, with the notable exception of Germany, where it is about 24pc. But in France, manufacturing's share is about the same as in the UK, and in the US it is actually lower.
True, manufacturing used to account for a much larger share of the UK's GDP. In 1970 it was more than 30pc. But the subsequent sharp fall wasn't exceptional either. All advanced countries have experienced the same phenomenon. Nor is this all about losing manufacturing to emerging economies in Asia and elsewhere, where costs are lower. The simple fact is that as people get richer they tend to want to spend a higher proportion of their incomes on services rather than on goods.
This does not mean that the absolute amount of goods that people want to buy falls or, therefore, that the absolute amount of manufactured output in the UK must necessarily fall over time. Indeed, until recently anyway, it didn't. Despite the fall in the sector's share of overall output, in absolute terms, the amount produced by the manufacturing sector has increased decade by decade.
The picture was, however, very different in the 2000s. Even before the financial and economic crisis, manufacturing output had barely increased. After the plunge, during the crisis itself, it finished the decade about 11pc lower than in 1999.
So is it all gloom and doom? I don't think so. For a start, the manufactured goods which the UK has stopped producing have – by and large – been low-value-added manufactured goods. In contrast, the country has continued to increase production in high-tech areas. At the peak in 2007, for example, although output of textiles was about 30pc lower than in 2000, the output of the chemicals industries was about 20pc higher.
Furthermore, given the severity of the drop in manufacturing output seen during the recession, the sector is likely to remain unconstrained by capacity limits for some time to come. Nor will output be held back by a shortage of skilled labour. Since labour was not shed at anything like the rate that output fell, it should be possible to produce more without employing more people.
Since about 45pc of all of UK manufactured goods are exported, the pound is critical. For more than a decade it was much too high. It now looks to be at a competitive level. This means that producing UK goods for export, and to replace imports, is more profitable than it has been since the period after we came out of the ERM in the early 1990s.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that the UK is going to experience a huge manufacturing revival as we move back into many of the areas which we recently left to the Chinese and others. Even after the pound's fall, our costs are simply not low enough – and they never will be. But I would not be surprised to see the manufacturing sector outperform the rest of the economy over the next few years, so that its share of GDP increases somewhat, before resuming the downward path which is normal in advanced economies.
This is also interesting http://tutor2u.net/economics/content/essentials/ma...Manufacturing's share of GDP in the UK is also little different from the share in other advanced economies, with the notable exception of Germany, where it is about 24pc. But in France, manufacturing's share is about the same as in the UK, and in the US it is actually lower.
True, manufacturing used to account for a much larger share of the UK's GDP. In 1970 it was more than 30pc. But the subsequent sharp fall wasn't exceptional either. All advanced countries have experienced the same phenomenon. Nor is this all about losing manufacturing to emerging economies in Asia and elsewhere, where costs are lower. The simple fact is that as people get richer they tend to want to spend a higher proportion of their incomes on services rather than on goods.
This does not mean that the absolute amount of goods that people want to buy falls or, therefore, that the absolute amount of manufactured output in the UK must necessarily fall over time. Indeed, until recently anyway, it didn't. Despite the fall in the sector's share of overall output, in absolute terms, the amount produced by the manufacturing sector has increased decade by decade.
The picture was, however, very different in the 2000s. Even before the financial and economic crisis, manufacturing output had barely increased. After the plunge, during the crisis itself, it finished the decade about 11pc lower than in 1999.
So is it all gloom and doom? I don't think so. For a start, the manufactured goods which the UK has stopped producing have – by and large – been low-value-added manufactured goods. In contrast, the country has continued to increase production in high-tech areas. At the peak in 2007, for example, although output of textiles was about 30pc lower than in 2000, the output of the chemicals industries was about 20pc higher.
Furthermore, given the severity of the drop in manufacturing output seen during the recession, the sector is likely to remain unconstrained by capacity limits for some time to come. Nor will output be held back by a shortage of skilled labour. Since labour was not shed at anything like the rate that output fell, it should be possible to produce more without employing more people.
Since about 45pc of all of UK manufactured goods are exported, the pound is critical. For more than a decade it was much too high. It now looks to be at a competitive level. This means that producing UK goods for export, and to replace imports, is more profitable than it has been since the period after we came out of the ERM in the early 1990s.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that the UK is going to experience a huge manufacturing revival as we move back into many of the areas which we recently left to the Chinese and others. Even after the pound's fall, our costs are simply not low enough – and they never will be. But I would not be surprised to see the manufacturing sector outperform the rest of the economy over the next few years, so that its share of GDP increases somewhat, before resuming the downward path which is normal in advanced economies.
but never let the facts get in the way of a good whinge.
Edited by Pothole on Thursday 24th February 19:31
Are you saying the only fact in my post is wrong?
I think this (copied from another forum - http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/24/breaking-spyker... is an observation that could be the most likely.....
Ok ..follow me on this one.
Your Muller, your friend Vladimir has billions but couldn't be part of the original GM/Saab buy/sell because of the FBI.
After running the Saab business for 12 months you suddenly discover that 15 minutes of fame can't fund sustained operational losses.. you make a call "hey Vladimir how would you like to "overpay" for Spyker?" (a company that hasn't earned profits since inception).
Now you have access to $32 million euro's to last you till September's EIB financial statements and the FBI can't say a word.
Crafty... very crafty indeed.
The Spyker/Saab debacle has Deloran like potential.
Ok ..follow me on this one.
Your Muller, your friend Vladimir has billions but couldn't be part of the original GM/Saab buy/sell because of the FBI.
After running the Saab business for 12 months you suddenly discover that 15 minutes of fame can't fund sustained operational losses.. you make a call "hey Vladimir how would you like to "overpay" for Spyker?" (a company that hasn't earned profits since inception).
Now you have access to $32 million euro's to last you till September's EIB financial statements and the FBI can't say a word.
Crafty... very crafty indeed.
The Spyker/Saab debacle has Deloran like potential.
JHS said:
ALL YOU LOT STOP JYNXING IT BEFORE THEY EVEN HAVE A CHANCE. GEEZ f
kING IDIOTS
valid point, but footballers aside, you dont think that a very high proportion of the potential spyker customers are self made, successful business people, who might know a thing or two about these type of business restructuring things - thus one might argue that the comments on here might only be reflective of some of the thoughts going through the minds of those people who might be potential customers.... (of course I have been in the past - and will be again ......wrong.....)kING IDIOTSDebaser said:
Pothole said:
bks! misquoted. Apologies Debaser
ETA, original post fixed now
No problem! Thought I'd got it wrong but read your post and realised we were saying the same thing.ks! misquoted. Apologies DebaserETA, original post fixed now
B10 said:
Would you like mummy to kiss it better for you?
Swearing and making crass comments about British industry are a bit juvenile. Perhaps more considered comments would garner a better response.
Quote* Would you like mummy to kiss it better for you? Swearing and making crass comments about British industry are a bit juvenile. Perhaps more considered comments would garner a better response.
Is one referring to our so-called British car industry by this?
Your so rightious!
You lead the way mate the Tory party needs people like you!!!!!
TW>>>
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