Corroded chassis members repair questions
Discussion
OK so.....a big day in the life of my Cerb!! 
With more help than I can ever thank them for, Tanguero and UKKID35 battled, pushed, pulled, cut, persuaded (with crow bars) and even swore (at least twice!!) during today's body off.
I can only admire how much these guys know and put into practice, but I hope I can learn half as much.
After getting the car into the state where I thought there was "one or two" minor jobs to finish off before separation, it turned into a 3-4 hour battle to get around the idiosyncrasies of Blackpool's finest car makers......but with persistence, an angle grinder and a hack saw or two, things eventually went from a whole car.....to two halves next to each other.
One of the most disconcerting sounds is the crunching of fibreglass as a breaker bar is being "gently" used to persuade the chassis to stop defying gravity and drop away from the car, however gently its being done, that crunch isnt nice!!
So a quick look over the chassis didn't show any significant further issues to the original chassis corrosion as per the main thrust of the thread....BUT....for those of you thinking a partial lift or body on outrigger replacement is possible, please take a note of the following pics, which were hidden from view by the body, and then make your own minds up.
rear wheel arch mating point to main outrigger,
same joint after silicon "bung" removed,
opposite side joint, same issue,
Maybe this sleeved rear member could do with a bit of welding,
Is it really that difficult to get all of the new sections lined up with the box section lower rail?? Seems so, if sliding a 5mm screwdriver into the gap is anything to go by...oh but only to one side...so thats ok right?
So that's all of today's work and new issues. Outriggers, although only 18 months or so old, will be coming off to be done properly. :-/
More to come Im sure, but thank you once again to Peter and Paul, you guys are superb
With more help than I can ever thank them for, Tanguero and UKKID35 battled, pushed, pulled, cut, persuaded (with crow bars) and even swore (at least twice!!) during today's body off.
I can only admire how much these guys know and put into practice, but I hope I can learn half as much.
After getting the car into the state where I thought there was "one or two" minor jobs to finish off before separation, it turned into a 3-4 hour battle to get around the idiosyncrasies of Blackpool's finest car makers......but with persistence, an angle grinder and a hack saw or two, things eventually went from a whole car.....to two halves next to each other.
One of the most disconcerting sounds is the crunching of fibreglass as a breaker bar is being "gently" used to persuade the chassis to stop defying gravity and drop away from the car, however gently its being done, that crunch isnt nice!!
So a quick look over the chassis didn't show any significant further issues to the original chassis corrosion as per the main thrust of the thread....BUT....for those of you thinking a partial lift or body on outrigger replacement is possible, please take a note of the following pics, which were hidden from view by the body, and then make your own minds up.
rear wheel arch mating point to main outrigger,
same joint after silicon "bung" removed,
opposite side joint, same issue,
Maybe this sleeved rear member could do with a bit of welding,
Is it really that difficult to get all of the new sections lined up with the box section lower rail?? Seems so, if sliding a 5mm screwdriver into the gap is anything to go by...oh but only to one side...so thats ok right?
So that's all of today's work and new issues. Outriggers, although only 18 months or so old, will be coming off to be done properly. :-/
More to come Im sure, but thank you once again to Peter and Paul, you guys are superb
Edited by djstevec on Sunday 2nd September 00:36
Demondad said:
I have to admire the wooden four poster and the vast garage space you have!! You should hire both out knowing how many of us will require this job in future.
Well the space is pretty good, on the down side theres no power close by, lighting sucks, no storage and the body/chassis has to be kept out in the open :-/Not sure how the happy the management company are going to be either!!
Gazzab said:
So the garage actually went to the effort of bodging the car rather than explaining it wasn't repairable. Sounds to me like the standard poor mgmt approach by said garage happened ie wasted time by a mechanic whilst garage owner off away, garage owner returns and decides he can't tell the customer that they can't fix it as they have wasted time (money) on it. So he gets his unskilled mechanic to carry on, bodge it right and proper and then stand in front of the owner and say what a great job theyve done. probably even saying we won't charge you the time it took us only the time we quoted etc ie we are doing you a favour. No wonder the garage closed down and is now pretty much dead! W@nkers.
Facebook don't have a name and shame policy, so I did mention who "repaired" the outriggers on the TVR fan page there.gerradiuk said:
I don't disagree with you there but why then is it that people rave about the service history at a Indie? WHEN, in "Most" case's where a enthusiast owner has serviced the car himself you can be pretty sure its been serviced to a higher standard ?
I know the "stamp" looks good in the book but after these numerous & mounting horror stories of incompetence & neglect that some are suffering ,not to mention paying for, I would rather buy from someone who serviced it himself with the receipts of parts etc , in some case's (in the past) the owners have kept the old parts . I have only ever bought 3 car's such as these & in each case have turned out to be the best one's !
It does raise many concerns regarding this indie, as they had pretty much sole maintenance of the car for a few years. One of my threads before this one, concerned cracks to the pax front suspension top mount and the amount that the whole front mount had been pushed forward somehow. They also missed the smaller, but clearly visible crack, right where the bush/bolts go through, even though that bush had been replaced not long before I bought the car.I know the "stamp" looks good in the book but after these numerous & mounting horror stories of incompetence & neglect that some are suffering ,not to mention paying for, I would rather buy from someone who serviced it himself with the receipts of parts etc , in some case's (in the past) the owners have kept the old parts . I have only ever bought 3 car's such as these & in each case have turned out to be the best one's !
DuncanM said:
ukkid35 said:
You're right, I should have said: "What was on offer was probably an MOT pass", that was careless of me.
Nevertheless my point remains: there's a lot of ingenuous nonsense here, if you pay for an in-situ repair then that's what you get. If you want something more then fess up.
Don't get me wrong, this was a really bad job, but not for the reasons suggested.
Peter's post suggests that what was offered to him (and likely BCA too?) was more than just a quick MOT pass bit of work, and with a price to match.Nevertheless my point remains: there's a lot of ingenuous nonsense here, if you pay for an in-situ repair then that's what you get. If you want something more then fess up.
Don't get me wrong, this was a really bad job, but not for the reasons suggested.
I find your posts bizarrely defensive of what, by your own admission is a really bad job?
there's a lot of ingenuous nonsense here
And insulting.
Edited by DuncanM on Wednesday 12th September 00:41
The only people that should be really upset by this are BCA and myself. For those with a history of issues of work from this indie, it just confirms or adds to their opinions.
Paul you have seen the poor job first hand, and without pre-empting anything BCA says, knowing how they ran the car (competitive hill-climbs, sprints, many track days etc) AND the garage in question also knowing how that car was used and driven, yet still undertook the replacement as they did....to me is just as bad as the work itself.
The time taken to smear the joints and sleeve fits in sicaflex, when they could have spent that time actually welding, especially the rear main chassis mating point, an area where the had pretty much 360 degree access in the wheel arches, does strongly suggest the garage knew exactly what hadn't been done but could be well hidden.
Whilst I agree that the repair got the car through at least two MOT's, one by the previous owner and one via APM, so the cover up was done well enough to get by two different testers, which may have been the aim of the garage, but I doubt it was the aim of the previous owner. I also have the receipt for how much BCA paid for it (a lot!), so I very much doubt this was sold as anything but a proper job.
From my perspective only, Im looking at this as pragmatically as I can, I've not had an incident in the car, I've not "real world" tested the structural strength of what they did bother to weld, (thank God!!), but its all coming off to be done properly.
C'est la vie!
Well a busy and weekend stripping the chassis down. Just the diff to go, but am thinking of leaving that to the experts at the garage when I ship it all off.
Cant for the life of me get the darned brake hoses off though....buggers almost seem welded in
and a few pics of how the front steering and suspension all goes together just in case I forget....
And finally....I f
kING HATE WAXOYL!
Cant for the life of me get the darned brake hoses off though....buggers almost seem welded in
and a few pics of how the front steering and suspension all goes together just in case I forget....
And finally....I f
kING HATE WAXOYL!tur8o said:
once the everything is stripped etc. what sort of cost is having the chassis shot blasted and re-powder coated and what do new outriggers normally cost? looking at doing mine over this winter.
I guess it all depends on the chassis treatment prior to the powder coating, then how many layers of pwder coating and if you choose a non-spec colour.....but I'm using the same company as another poster to his thread, who had his chassis done for under £600. And knowing this guys level of attention to detail (read that as OCD!!), I trust his judgement.Outriggers again vary, and mine are being done with other chassis repairs, so not sure of the cost individually, but I'd guess around £1k.
Edited by djstevec on Tuesday 18th September 08:54
Pics to come when iPhone charged.....but 3 more holes in 3 diff chassis members today are really making me wonder if the chassis is economically salvageable.
Another hole in an upright forward of the previously fully corroded upright, and holes to both o/s and n/s lower box sections around the outrigger mating points have come to light. All three new issues were covered in years worth of waxoyl so no surprise they haven't been seen before.
And this is just me tapping around with a screwdriver, let alone what else come to light after grit blasting.
With new outriggers needed to replace the bodge job, I'll have to seriously consider alternatives in the next few days.
Another hole in an upright forward of the previously fully corroded upright, and holes to both o/s and n/s lower box sections around the outrigger mating points have come to light. All three new issues were covered in years worth of waxoyl so no surprise they haven't been seen before.
And this is just me tapping around with a screwdriver, let alone what else come to light after grit blasting.
With new outriggers needed to replace the bodge job, I'll have to seriously consider alternatives in the next few days.
djstevec said:
Pics to come when iPhone charged.....but 3 more holes in 3 diff chassis members today are really making me wonder if the chassis is economically salvageable.
Another hole in an upright forward of the previously fully corroded upright, and holes to both o/s and n/s lower box sections around the outrigger mating points have come to light. All three new issues were covered in years worth of waxoyl so no surprise they haven't been seen before.
And this is just me tapping around with a screwdriver, let alone what else come to light after grit blasting.
With new outriggers needed to replace the bodge job, I'll have to seriously consider alternatives in the next few days.
Ok so this is where we're at right now.Another hole in an upright forward of the previously fully corroded upright, and holes to both o/s and n/s lower box sections around the outrigger mating points have come to light. All three new issues were covered in years worth of waxoyl so no surprise they haven't been seen before.
And this is just me tapping around with a screwdriver, let alone what else come to light after grit blasting.
With new outriggers needed to replace the bodge job, I'll have to seriously consider alternatives in the next few days.
Pic below shows the location of the all the engine bay area chassis issues I've found so far.
Starting at top left (11 o'clock) there a small horizontal angle strengthening plate at the base of the very front-most suspension upright plate. Small hole - no pic - simple fix. Also found that the base of that driver side suspension upright has previously been repaired with additional plates.
At the 12 o'clock position with the arrow and the circle are todays find, pic below;
the upright hole from the other side;
next circled area is the upright that was the opening post on the thread;
at the 3 o'clock position is the other pic on the OP, the pin hole to the top chasis tube on the passenger side;
next one in the 4 o'clock position is another new hole on the outboard side of the box section where the outrigger plate is welded to the box section;
and finally (so far) are the 2 cracks to the front passenger side suspension mount - with the plate adjacent to the rad out of line by about 10mm;
Thanks for the info on the RP chassis Gary, and Andy will call you at some point Monday. I had been speaking to Dan Taylor about repairing this, so will also call him.....
Anyone have any thoughts or suggested avenues of repairs otherwise?
scotty_d said:
I would have it blasted first and see what else crops up first and take it from there.
I see the logic there, but that will only find more issues (and increase the repair costs) and ATM I'm a little reluctant to throw good money at a bad chassis, unless the alternative options don't stack up financially either. I think I got a little ahead of myself ordering Nitrons last week! 
Going to be heading up to to RT Racing on Saturday have a chat through things with Richard. From an initial phone call he's certainly of the opinion its an "average" job for them and perfectly repairable, with an eye to future proofing by taking out more than required just for the repair.
Buying a salvage chassis with potential unknown issues isn't a route/risk I really want to take.
Buying a salvage chassis with potential unknown issues isn't a route/risk I really want to take.
Edited by djstevec on Wednesday 26th September 09:04
ukkid35 said:
I'm in the same position as you (although this side of la Manche), my thoughts are that I need car with a blown engine that could benefit from an engine swap. Sadly I don't have the funds to entertain that idea in reality.
It's quite amusing to think that what I perceived to be the weakest part of my car (the 4.5 AJP) is actually its only strength...
You might want to take a look here Paul, although I guess its too soon for you in reality.It's quite amusing to think that what I perceived to be the weakest part of my car (the 4.5 AJP) is actually its only strength...
Chassis is available for around £1500 according to the seller and will come with all suspension components and steering rack. History on it though is almost non-existent, so risk of it being a banana.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-CERBERA-AJP-Breaking...
Well its been a while since I updated the thread.
Chassis is with RT Racing and has now been blasted to reveal the full glory/gory details.
I took the chassis up there in early Oct, when pretty much the whole workforce had a good chuckle (or shake of the head) at the welding on the outriggers.
Following today's call, during which Richard could hardly stop laughing at further comedy "repairs" coming to light, I'm actually really glad I took the decision to body off and refurb.
At the end of this I wont be far off spending as much to correct the issues, as I would have spent to commission a one off chassis. :-/
Pics to follow when sent.
Chassis is with RT Racing and has now been blasted to reveal the full glory/gory details.
I took the chassis up there in early Oct, when pretty much the whole workforce had a good chuckle (or shake of the head) at the welding on the outriggers.
Following today's call, during which Richard could hardly stop laughing at further comedy "repairs" coming to light, I'm actually really glad I took the decision to body off and refurb.
At the end of this I wont be far off spending as much to correct the issues, as I would have spent to commission a one off chassis. :-/
Pics to follow when sent.
Yeah Richard has been great, glad I took the time to go up there and spend an entire morning talking through the problems, solutions, tour of the garage and various stages and states of each chassis they had. I like that approach.
So.......
Ive got the first batch of photos after grit blasting and by the looks of the corrosion, I had identified all the areas during the clean-up and am told that its all repairable.
And the 2 year old body on/partial lift replacement outriggers (glad I didnt pay for this)
And God knows what happened here...
To paraphrase Richard, "This is the worst outrigger replacement I have ever seen", happily its all coming off to be done correctly and judging from the 1st outrigger pic, in the right place!
So.......
Ive got the first batch of photos after grit blasting and by the looks of the corrosion, I had identified all the areas during the clean-up and am told that its all repairable.
And the 2 year old body on/partial lift replacement outriggers (glad I didnt pay for this)
And God knows what happened here...
To paraphrase Richard, "This is the worst outrigger replacement I have ever seen", happily its all coming off to be done correctly and judging from the 1st outrigger pic, in the right place!
Edited by djstevec on Wednesday 14th November 11:50
Tanguero said:
It makes me feel sick that I had a quote (£1800+VAT) from the cowboys that did this outrigger job and was actually considering using them before I decided to do the body off myself. 
I hope any other owners who had a similar service are checking the structural integrity of their chassis' too.Gassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff