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VinceFox

14,099 posts

41 months

[news] 
Saturday 18th August 2012 quote quote all
Mr Cerbera said:
900T-R said:
Guys (and gals) - it's a car, not some sort of bewitched inanimate object that does as it pleases. There's two ways to run a (any) car - drive from one breakdown/repair to another, or go through everything with a fine tooth comb after you've got it, and repair/replace things before they send you to the hard shoulder at the worst possible moment.

After 15 years, you can't really blame the factory for the way it was built anymore - if something goes awry, blame the PO, or yourself. tongue outwinkbiggrin
Just as human brothers can grow up to be so completely different so are these two siblings from Blackpool. None intended Eric but Cerbs do, in fact, have souls.
They react differently to every owner's own personality and can either feel right at home or pervade their lives with automotive horrors the like of which an owner would never have seen before.
To enter, willingly, into the foreboding temple of Cerb ownership takes enormous courage, a little stupidity and a deep "Sod the outcome, lets have fun" attitude that perhaps only the owners of GT40s and Miuras have felt.

{ As you can tell, am writing the script to the film 'Cerberathon 21st Century!" )
wink


ETA
Cheers VinceFox for your original comments coz this has ignited a powder keg of amusing opinion.
Good on yer thumbup

Edited by Mr Cerbera on Saturday 18th August 11:40
Cheers Mr C, despite what it might read like i am a huge fan of the cerbera!

djstevec

2,032 posts

43 months

[news] 
Saturday 18th August 2012 quote quote all
Don't worry OP, she's just testing if you're worthy of being a Cerb owner. (Excalibur/sword/stone and all that!!)

Mine split a fuel hose and blew a coilpack in the first days/week of ownership. They just test you to make sure they know they're going to be looked after properly!!
:-)

S

Mr Tank

4,725 posts

144 months

[news] 
Saturday 18th August 2012 quote quote all
Mr Cerbera said:
Mr Tank said:
.....As an original car, will always hold or increase it's value in time!

Andy
Hi Andy,

Frankly I think that broadstroke statement is naive.

I would be prepared give more for a Cerb which had its shocks replaced for Nitrons, its headlights replaced for HIDs, its Clutch Slave replaced for an RP, its rubber hoses replaced for silicon and any number of other improvable parts rather than an original car which had spent most of its life sitting in a garage.

None intended wink

( Loved your article in April Sprint by the way thumbup )
I am sorry just look at any Collectors car, Classic car or vintage car! In original condition they will get the best price against a modified non-original car!

The early cars are now 16 years old and will sone be come a collectors car! So yes if you want to mod your car by changing the lights, the engine, interiors etc, in the collectors market and then the classic market a original car will always get the best price!

Yes a Cerbera is for driving and so are things like a e-type etc! But if people want to keep the as a collector's item they can! They will be the people who will benfit when it comes to asking top price when or if they ever sell!

My cars all get used but there milage is keeped low because of that! So to keep them in original condition is not hard and I will be the winner should I wish to sell!

Andy

good40

158 posts

13 months

[news] 
Saturday 18th August 2012 quote quote all
As you say Andy everyone's enjoyment is different. I can see where he is coming from as these "mods" are improvements & IMO that TVR were striving to be an innovative company ,so what Mr Cerb is saying sort of follows the company ethos ?
I am in the camp of improvements myself & as far a winner ,well I prefer to enjoy it while I have it rather than contemplate the residuals . Having said that I often go to classic events & look in awe at the amazing standards of these guys cars knowing that its beyond my capabilities.

Mr Tank

4,725 posts

144 months

[news] 
Sunday 19th August 2012 quote quote all
good40 said:
As you say Andy everyone's enjoyment is different. I can see where he is coming from as these "mods" are improvements & IMO that TVR were striving to be an innovative company ,so what Mr Cerb is saying sort of follows the company ethos ?
I am in the camp of improvements myself & as far a winner ,well I prefer to enjoy it while I have it rather than contemplate the residuals . Having said that I often go to classic events & look in awe at the amazing standards of these guys cars knowing that its beyond my capabilities.
Hi
As I said every one to there own preference!

But when somebody says I am naive about what I prefere does get to me, especialy when the facts speak for them selves!

The thing is Cerbies are getting rare, and the rate that they and all TVR's are getting written off any original car keeped that way will allways be a sort after car! (I don't have any intentetions of selling any of my collection)

I love to use all my cars (Just can't at present) and when I can use them again they will be keeped on the road (Not trailer queens) and shown to other car enthusiasts, so they can see how special TVR's are!

In fact I intend to take my whole collection (8 TVR's) with the help of good friends and faimly to the Bishop Stortford Motor Show, on Sunday the 16th of September!
If any fellow Cerbie owner wants to come to a good show and see some great cars of all ages and types then come along!

Andy

P.S. The best bit was I was basically agreeing with some of his original statement! confusedhehe

Edited by Mr Tank on Sunday 19th August 09:03

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Gazzab

15,108 posts

151 months

[news] 
Sunday 19th August 2012 quote quote all
Is there a premium originality market for tvr's?
I prefer standard Tvrs but with a few subtle mods to make them a 'better' car to use and enjoy. Crap Tvr suspension being a sensible thing to replace. I can't see such mods impacting the value of a car even to a pureist. Compare that scenario to the knackered speed 6 with overspray....

DonkeyApple

11,989 posts

38 months

[news] 
Sunday 19th August 2012 quote quote all
Gazzab said:
Is there a premium originality market for tvr's?
I prefer standard Tvrs but with a few subtle mods to make them a 'better' car to use and enjoy. Crap Tvr suspension being a sensible thing to replace. I can't see such mods impacting the value of a car even to a pureist. Compare that scenario to the knackered speed 6 with overspray....
I think there are mods and then there are mods.

I don't think anyone would baulk at a car which had been fitted with better pieces of kit like suspension etc.

However, as these cars get into a certain age territory buyers will be more keen for cars which have a continuous history of maintenance by a specialist than being home maintained as it gives a peace of mind, whether actually correct or not.

Or they will look to buy a shed and have it restored.

Many future buyers will be looking to pay for the peace of mind that something hidden hasn't been botched or key parts neglected.

That's really the standard next part of the cycle that occurs after the period of prices hitting rock bottom and bad episodes of cheap maintenance etc.

At a certain level, buyers just won't pay for someone's private fettling/maintenance. And it is this cost elevation that starts to be factored into prices and triggering the eventual rise in values.

At a final stage you get the anal buyers who demand total originality and will bore people witless with their immensely dull conversations but in reality I can never see Tivs reaching this area.

Mr Cerbera

2,934 posts

99 months

[news] 
Sunday 19th August 2012 quote quote all
Mr Tank said:
Mr Cerbera said:
Mr Tank said:
.....As an original car, will always hold or increase it's value in time!

Andy
Hi Andy,

Frankly I think that broadstroke statement is naive.

I would be prepared give more for a Cerb which had its shocks replaced for Nitrons, its headlights replaced for HIDs, its Clutch Slave replaced for an RP, its rubber hoses replaced for silicon and any number of other improvable parts rather than an original car which had spent most of its life sitting in a garage.

None intended wink

( Loved your article in April Sprint by the way thumbup )
I am sorry just look at any Collectors car, Classic car or vintage car! In original condition they will get the best price against a modified non-original car!

The early cars are now 16 years old and will sone be come a collectors car! So yes if you want to mod your car by changing the lights, the engine, interiors etc, in the collectors market and then the classic market a original car will always get the best price!

Yes a Cerbera is for driving and so are things like a e-type etc! But if people want to keep the as a collector's item they can! They will be the people who will benfit when it comes to asking top price when or if they ever sell!

My cars all get used but there milage is keeped low because of that! So to keep them in original condition is not hard and I will be the winner should I wish to sell!

Andy
Hi Andy,

my sincere and unreserved apologies for upsetting you. It was certainly not my intention.

Looking back I realsie that 'naive' was the wrong word as you are obviosly an expert in the classic automotive and residuals markets. I, on the other hand, have never made a penny on any car that I've sold.

Perhaps I should have used the phrase 'sibgle-minded' in an effort to explain that I believe that Cerbs exist in a world where not only can you keep them in absolutely mint condition for their future values but one can also improve on the, frankly, limited budget under which they were constructed and enjoy the car at the limits that I think Mr. Wheeler originally conceived for the car.

As I said in my original answer, which you sadly chose to ignore, I enjoyed your article in the TVRCC mag Sprint where eyou described your history with each model.
I also much appreciated your support for my original post and I apologise for not thanking you then.

So Thanks !

( Sorry, bit I always took my Corgis out of their boxes and played with 'em. wink )

Jhonno

709 posts

10 months

[news] 
Sunday 9th September 2012 quote quote all
Hows this relationship blooming..? I just saw the ad in Classifeds.. Reminded me.

900T-R

18,559 posts

126 months

[news] 
Sunday 9th September 2012 quote quote all
Sorry folks, but these are TVRs we're talking about. A 'totally original, unmodified' one simply won't go the distance needed to become a valuable classic unless it was mothballed at an early stage (in which case, what are you going to do with it after you bought it? To use it means extensive recomissioning and compromising its originality, then adding mileage and compromising its 'collector value' further; not using it - what's the pleasure derived from that?).

All the rest would have either burnt out, broke their crank, lost most of their chassis and electrics or have exit stage left backwards were it not for people keen on making improvements so the cars can be enjoyed long-term. smile

ajp70

495 posts

55 months

[news] 
Sunday 9th September 2012 quote quote all
Mr Tank said:
I am sorry just look at any Collectors car, Classic car or vintage car! In original condition they will get the best price against a modified non-original car!

The early cars are now 16 years old and will sone be come a collectors car! So yes if you want to mod your car by changing the lights, the engine, interiors etc, in the collectors market and then the classic market a original car will always get the best price!

Yes a Cerbera is for driving and so are things like a e-type etc! But if people want to keep the as a collector's item they can! They will be the people who will benfit when it comes to asking top price when or if they ever sell!

My cars all get used but there milage is keeped low because of that! So to keep them in original condition is not hard and I will be the winner should I wish to sell!

Andy
I don't think Cerberas are old enough yet to have originality as more desirable but, in time, people will seek those cars out and have to pay a little more for them because demand will be greater than what's available. Original spec. doesn't mean that it's a better car to drive or live with but for the owner, they have something in period condition as intended when it rolled off the production line.

The extent of originality and what is deamed acceptable is a bit of a grey area. A couple of odd examples are: 1930s Riley straight six engines which are absolutely impossible to get so a remanufactured one is OK because there is no other choice. Also, a change by choice, for a Daimler SP250 is to put rack and pinion steering in, which is OK. Then there is updating a cars cooling rads and fans so it doesn't overheat in todays traffic jams, and what about swapping a Ford 4 speed for a Ford 5 speed for todays faster roads.

In future some mods for the Cerb will be perfectly OK and then will come the grey area until the modification will be too extreme, beyond original. Like running a Chevy LSx engine, Ahem!, like mine. My car has spent most of it's life not being original before I owned it so when the engine needed a re-build I opted to go LSx. I still have the original engine and g/box which I will keep with the car so it will still be possible to return it, with not toooo much effort.

I have said before that it is in the nature of the TVR owner to 'modify' and upgrade the car but this is often a result of the temperamental nature of the car itself.






What was the original post? We seem to have modified that a bit! Oh yes. Well done OP with your Cerbera and the way you jumped right in with the right attitude. You'll do well, even if shouting cupid stunt WORK! or STOP IT! at the car happens with frequent regularity. However, we all forgive our Trouble Very Regular when it decides to reward us for our understanding and patience. Enjoy the pain and pleasure/pleasure and pain.

It's a kinky relationship.

900T-R

18,559 posts

126 months

[news] 
Sunday 9th September 2012 quote quote all
ajp70 said:
I have said before that it is in the nature of the TVR owner to 'modify' and upgrade the car but this is often a result of the temperamental nature of the car itself.

Exactly my point! There's a great many things on my TVR that could have been engineered a lot better, but don't give me trouble or detract from the experience and as long as this is the case I happily leave these aspects alone.
Some other things however, will rear their head and require action from the owner at some point, and in such cases I don't see the point of not doing it properly just because the factory didn't, either.

Jimbolian

Original Poster:

165 posts

9 months

[news] 
Sunday 9th September 2012 quote quote all
Don't worry, she's doing very well indeed! Off to TVR Central end of October for a full respray ( paints destroyed ) and some other bits.

More detail to follow when the time comes.

For the record, i'm going down the original route unless the original part was crap... for instance MK1 headlights but with HID's as i like being able to see where i'm going!

ajp70

495 posts

55 months

[news] 
Sunday 9th September 2012 quote quote all
Jimbolian said:
Don't worry, she's doing very well indeed! Off to TVR Central end of October for a full respray ( paints destroyed ) and some other bits.

More detail to follow when the time comes.

For the record, i'm going down the original route unless the original part was crap... for instance MK1 headlights but with HID's as i like being able to see where i'm going!
In case this sounds sarcastic, it's meant genuinely. I admire your intention to keep it original. Although, it could be intersting if I quoted this post in 18 months time. wink

Jhonno

709 posts

10 months

[news] 
Sunday 9th September 2012 quote quote all
Jimbolian said:
Don't worry, she's doing very well indeed! Off to TVR Central end of October for a full respray ( paints destroyed ) and some other bits.

More detail to follow when the time comes.

For the record, i'm going down the original route unless the original part was crap... for instance MK1 headlights but with HID's as i like being able to see where i'm going!
Out of interest and crass-ness.. 'Ow much gov'nor?

Jimbolian

Original Poster:

165 posts

9 months

[news] 
Sunday 9th September 2012 quote quote all
4k for respray in Grigio Avalon and another 1k for some used but mint spiders, hid conversion, new front lights ( rusted ) new back light lenses and various seals. Oh and a windscreen.

Jimbolian

Original Poster:

165 posts

9 months

[news] 
Sunday 9th September 2012 quote quote all
And yes original unless the replacement offers better function. Blended in lights look amazing, but i'd rather have a later Cerb with those from the factory.. etc.
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