4 Valves per cylinder ?
Discussion
Totally agree that the AJP is a lot of the 'character' etc. I love the engine and have a number of projects in mind for it (though in 16v form). It just feels like this will be a pure 'race' engine. I don't even mean that from the point of tractability or anything like that but the cost of getting an LSx in there is order of 10k, right? The cost of what is effectively a bespoke engine is surely much, much higher...
We're talking the heads, cams to deal with the flat plane crank (possibly, depending on donor engine), pistons and maybe some alterations to cam drive, oil/ water flows etc Then you have the induction, exhaust and what I'd term ancillary equipment. Believe you me, these are some of my favourite threads on PH (I love the BMW bike head on the A-Series engine, as an example) but for 'keeping the car on the road' this is going to be way more money than the equivalent AJP rebuild or LSx transplant and likely even more than forced induction.
With money as no object then I would go for a 32v (maybe even 40v with certain Audi heads, if that is what these are) NA AJP engined car - so it seems awesome but it doesn't mean that it would be generally, commercially viable (I know no one is saying this is a project that will be sold etc) so exciting it is, but more as an oddity etc.
I'm following this with interest and would like to hear more...
We're talking the heads, cams to deal with the flat plane crank (possibly, depending on donor engine), pistons and maybe some alterations to cam drive, oil/ water flows etc Then you have the induction, exhaust and what I'd term ancillary equipment. Believe you me, these are some of my favourite threads on PH (I love the BMW bike head on the A-Series engine, as an example) but for 'keeping the car on the road' this is going to be way more money than the equivalent AJP rebuild or LSx transplant and likely even more than forced induction.
With money as no object then I would go for a 32v (maybe even 40v with certain Audi heads, if that is what these are) NA AJP engined car - so it seems awesome but it doesn't mean that it would be generally, commercially viable (I know no one is saying this is a project that will be sold etc) so exciting it is, but more as an oddity etc.
I'm following this with interest and would like to hear more...
right as promised
the heads are from a production engine and they fit perfectly the head studs line up
and the locator dowls line up perfectly as well
also the bore spacing is the same as the ajp
the reason its being done is of the compacness and the flat plane crankshaft
it will be a small lightweight and very powerfull engine with up to 700bhp @8000rpms and 475ft lbs of tourqe from the 4.8 litres
and the base engine will be around 525bhp @7000rpm and 400ft lbs of torque
the first engine is expected to run in the new year
as for the cost around £11950.00 this will include omex ems for the base engine
chears jim
the heads are from a production engine and they fit perfectly the head studs line up
and the locator dowls line up perfectly as well
also the bore spacing is the same as the ajp
the reason its being done is of the compacness and the flat plane crankshaft
it will be a small lightweight and very powerfull engine with up to 700bhp @8000rpms and 475ft lbs of tourqe from the 4.8 litres
and the base engine will be around 525bhp @7000rpm and 400ft lbs of torque
the first engine is expected to run in the new year
as for the cost around £11950.00 this will include omex ems for the base engine
chears jim
spitfire4v8 said:
If everything lines up then is it another melling design engine that the heads are taken from ? hmm ..
I find this interesting, too. Would love to know what the heads are off - I bet someone would recognise them if you posted this in GG or somewhere.I guess the company doesn't want to say at this stage to stop other people starting to develop the same solution and effectively reduce their market, so making any time/ money spent on development more difficult to make back.
I would be interested to know why the 'donor' engine for the heads is significantly less compact - in other words, wouldn't it be cheaper to fit new engine mounts/ bellhousing than go to all this trouble? Yes, it keeps it AJP and, presumably, the engine is narrower (wheres 90° DOHC V8s may not fit) but I don't see, specifically, why the 'donor' engine block would be a lot heavier/ less compact. The power an engine can produce, in basic terms, is down to ccapacity and top end breathing. The donor engine would have the same ability to breathe but I am guessing not the capacity of the AJP (eg Audi = 4.2l and AJP, in this form, 4.7l).
I am going to bet that, with the heads needing to be from another, compact V8 they are from an Audi (S4/ RS4) but I suspect all the Audi's have some sort of VVT type system, which may complicate matters. The only other, particularly compact, heads I can think of are the Porsche Cayenne heads but I suspect they also have a load of variable valve gubbins.
Again, I am just thinking out loud as to why/ how this would be done and I presume it is just the narrow V-angle meaning the AJP is the only V8 block that would fit (by width) with 32 valves. It really is a very interesting project and if that 700bhp is a genuine number from just 4.7l, then that is very, very impressive though I suspect the 12k is just for the 'base' spec and it gets more expensive after that. Does that figure include a rebuild of the bottom end? I know you will need new pistons anyway but I assume they rebuild the bottom end as well?
That is certainly LSx conversion ballpark money and sounds like similar power, so it is definitely starting to make sense to me - I really love the fact that someone has done all this research and come up with this solution.
[Later thought] (no point deleting my ramblings) - I guess the BMW M3 V8 was compact and that didn't use direct injection, unlike the Audi RS4s (though I think the 'lower' spec Audi's didn't use DI), so that may be another possibility. Hmmmm... Cool stuff.
Looking at the pictures I would say they are going to have to relocate the air/con unit and there doesn't seem to be enough clearance to remove/replace alternator without removing at least one head, coil packs look like they would be pig too.
Very interesting project good luck to those taking this on.
Look forwards to seeing/hearing one running.
Very interesting project good luck to those taking this on.
Look forwards to seeing/hearing one running.
Edited by zooooom on Wednesday 17th October 17:23
dom9 said:
I find this interesting, too. Would love to know what the heads are off - I bet someone would recognise them if you posted this in GG or somewhere.
I guess the company doesn't want to say at this stage to stop other people starting to develop the same solution and effectively reduce their market, so making any time/ money spent on development more difficult to make back.
I would be interested to know why the 'donor' engine for the heads is significantly less compact - in other words, wouldn't it be cheaper to fit new engine mounts/ bellhousing than go to all this trouble? Yes, it keeps it AJP and, presumably, the engine is narrower (wheres 90° DOHC V8s may not fit) but I don't see, specifically, why the 'donor' engine block would be a lot heavier/ less compact. The power an engine can produce, in basic terms, is down to ccapacity and top end breathing. The donor engine would have the same ability to breathe but I am guessing not the capacity of the AJP (eg Audi = 4.2l and AJP, in this form, 4.7l).
I am going to bet that, with the heads needing to be from another, compact V8 they are from an Audi (S4/ RS4) but I suspect all the Audi's have some sort of VVT type system, which may complicate matters. The only other, particularly compact, heads I can think of are the Porsche Cayenne heads but I suspect they also have a load of variable valve gubbins.
Again, I am just thinking out loud as to why/ how this would be done and I presume it is just the narrow V-angle meaning the AJP is the only V8 block that would fit (by width) with 32 valves. It really is a very interesting project and if that 700bhp is a genuine number from just 4.7l, then that is very, very impressive though I suspect the 12k is just for the 'base' spec and it gets more expensive after that. Does that figure include a rebuild of the bottom end? I know you will need new pistons anyway but I assume they rebuild the bottom end as well?
That is certainly LSx conversion ballpark money and sounds like similar power, so it is definitely starting to make sense to me - I really love the fact that someone has done all this research and come up with this solution.
[Later thought] (no point deleting my ramblings) - I guess the BMW M3 V8 was compact and that didn't use direct injection, unlike the Audi RS4s (though I think the 'lower' spec Audi's didn't use DI), so that may be another possibility. Hmmmm... Cool stuff.
I think it makes sense that the company want to protect their first mover advantage. I guess the company doesn't want to say at this stage to stop other people starting to develop the same solution and effectively reduce their market, so making any time/ money spent on development more difficult to make back.
I would be interested to know why the 'donor' engine for the heads is significantly less compact - in other words, wouldn't it be cheaper to fit new engine mounts/ bellhousing than go to all this trouble? Yes, it keeps it AJP and, presumably, the engine is narrower (wheres 90° DOHC V8s may not fit) but I don't see, specifically, why the 'donor' engine block would be a lot heavier/ less compact. The power an engine can produce, in basic terms, is down to ccapacity and top end breathing. The donor engine would have the same ability to breathe but I am guessing not the capacity of the AJP (eg Audi = 4.2l and AJP, in this form, 4.7l).
I am going to bet that, with the heads needing to be from another, compact V8 they are from an Audi (S4/ RS4) but I suspect all the Audi's have some sort of VVT type system, which may complicate matters. The only other, particularly compact, heads I can think of are the Porsche Cayenne heads but I suspect they also have a load of variable valve gubbins.
Again, I am just thinking out loud as to why/ how this would be done and I presume it is just the narrow V-angle meaning the AJP is the only V8 block that would fit (by width) with 32 valves. It really is a very interesting project and if that 700bhp is a genuine number from just 4.7l, then that is very, very impressive though I suspect the 12k is just for the 'base' spec and it gets more expensive after that. Does that figure include a rebuild of the bottom end? I know you will need new pistons anyway but I assume they rebuild the bottom end as well?
That is certainly LSx conversion ballpark money and sounds like similar power, so it is definitely starting to make sense to me - I really love the fact that someone has done all this research and come up with this solution.
[Later thought] (no point deleting my ramblings) - I guess the BMW M3 V8 was compact and that didn't use direct injection, unlike the Audi RS4s (though I think the 'lower' spec Audi's didn't use DI), so that may be another possibility. Hmmmm... Cool stuff.
Re the heads, quite a few 32v heads about before VVT became the norm. Also, most variable systems are can end actuators controlled by the ECU so can just be taken off.
I assume that the AJP block is more compact than the one the heads came off.
Good point
I've changed an alternator and coil packs and its a s
t job
The info I've been given is that all the oil pump and power steering pumps with be changed to external drive
With the amount of planing and design over many many years
All the problems with the ajp will be gone
And it will be made much simpler to work on
I've changed an alternator and coil packs and its a s
t jobThe info I've been given is that all the oil pump and power steering pumps with be changed to external drive
With the amount of planing and design over many many years
All the problems with the ajp will be gone
And it will be made much simpler to work on
Just had a good read through this thread, amazing someone has found a set of heads that fit, sounds like a great project, will make an LS conversion seem cheap though!!!
But... I'm disappointed there aren't more engine boffs on this forum
Come on boys I expected better.... Ford 32v V8 heads as found in new Mustang or GT Ford, double water outlets give it away
Rich.
But... I'm disappointed there aren't more engine boffs on this forum
Come on boys I expected better.... Ford 32v V8 heads as found in new Mustang or GT Ford, double water outlets give it away
Rich.
Boosted Cerb said:
Come on boys I expected better.... Ford 32v V8 heads as found in new Mustang or GT Ford, double water outlets give it away
Rich.
Interesting... I've been keeping a close eye on those engines (now I live in The States) as crate engines are very cheap and it's a lovely thing...Rich.
Boosted Cerb said:
But... I'm disappointed there aren't more engine boffs on this forum
Come on boys I expected better.... Ford 32v V8 heads as found in new Mustang or GT Ford, double water outlets give it away
Rich.
Come on boys I expected better.... Ford 32v V8 heads as found in new Mustang or GT Ford, double water outlets give it away
Rich.
I did mention this engine well back in this thread. By the way has Peter Wheeler from up above had any influence on the marketing and power claims for this engine? seems like it came Straight out of a TVR sales brochure. 700bhp really? Ferarri need 12 cylinders and god knows how much development time and money to achieve this. I wish all involved the best of luck and watch with interestGassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff