Mercedes 5.4 litre conversion - Thoughts?
Discussion
Looking at it from a resale value if the conversion were to take place, I personally would never even consider looking at a Cerb without a tvr engine, the engine is its soul, without it its just another kit car. Anybody with half a brain knows what they are getting in to with a tvr, especially a cerb.
N7GTX said:
....The cost is around £7,000 ....
Well, that'll put it in the same ball park as APM's 4.7 rebuild and below anLS replacement so your choice is a simple one.
More power and reliability for more cash
or not.
Wake up lads, residuals are meaningless coz no work you do on a car is returned on an equal basis.
If you need it done then you'll either
make a loss selling it without having it done
or
do it and make a loss to the eventual buyer who argues that it's not original.
Do you remember that t
t on Wheeler Dealers who offered a grand less than the small asking price for a totally rebuilt car.When you come to sell it or chop it in for summat else you're not going to make a profit - done !
Enjoy it, keep it in as good a state that your finances will allow( and then enjoy it some more).
IF and When you come to sell it, your return will only partially be gauged on the latter
Personally if it hasn't got a TVR engine in it then I wouldn't be interested and I say that after looking long and hard at an LS conversion when my SP6 required to be rebuilt. The LS ticks a lot of the boxes but it is very expensive to be done correctly circa £20k, but in the end "I" wanted to keep it true to TVR, and original, and I kept the Speed Six and I am glad I did, although I probably should have went for the 4.3L.
Please don't take this as me knocking the LS conversions because this is not my intention and they are some very fine examples out there now. But as far as a Mercedes, BMW or any other engine in a Cerbera other than TVRs nah not for me.
George
Please don't take this as me knocking the LS conversions because this is not my intention and they are some very fine examples out there now. But as far as a Mercedes, BMW or any other engine in a Cerbera other than TVRs nah not for me.
George
Brummmie said:
Tuning options for this engine will be limited and fecking expensive i would imagine, LS you can go from 350-2000hp, and almost unlimited suppliers of any part of the engine. Fairly future proof i would say?
I was thinking that too, tuning potential could be costly, but maybe the who chap built it is happy as is, it still won't be a sloutch that's for sure!I then think of the cerb with the rv8 engine, that with the Tvr turbo kit could be much fun, and very cheap for spare p38 range rover engines parts just now.
a1rak said:
Maybe looking at a Triumph stag as a comparison would be similar. When made the Stag had terrible issues with the engine and many were replaced with either the ford V6 or the Triumph straight 6 or the Rover V8. When a car comes up for sale now all anybody wants now is the original 3ltr V8.
Probably a good analogy this one. Years ago everyone put a Rover V8 in when the original failed and now, as said, its gone back to the start. However, I would still try and find a Rover V8 one.As far as this conversion goes, the complete Merc engine is fitted so no issues with servicing and the original gearbox and clutch are retained which, in my mind, may be the only weak point. I was hoping that a different arrangement would be used to avoid slave seal issues.
While probably the majority on here would not consider the car with this engine, I am fairly confident many others would be happy to have something different and with/without this conversion it is essentially a 'kit' car. The choice of engines in a Westfield for example does not seriously detract from the overall car. But I do understand the feeling that a lot prefer a TVR original engine.
2 years ago I could not sell an old Ford P100 pick up with its original 2 litre Pinto engine. Local scrappy had an XR4i complete so I fitted that engine with its loom (yes, I know, a simple job compared to this or an LS) and sold it within 24 hours parked on the road with a For Sale sign in it. The lad who bought it wanted a pick up that was a bit different. Maybe this is the attraction.
What issue are you trying to fix by installing a cross plane crank german or yank V8. When you buy into a cerbera your not buying into a major mile cruiser. Its a fairly highly strung flat plane crank v8. Thats its USP. i just cant see the attraction (however much bhp it produces of a wobbly sounding american v8 thats used in trucks, cars, boats..(no offence)
Look at how many flat plane crank engines there are out there, avaibale in production cars. A Ferrari V8 from the same era will require similar care and maintenance, and ultimately rebuild if its done a decent mileage.
I dont get it really. If people want to build a track car etc go for it, otherwise just sell the Cerb to someone who'll appreciate it and take on the cost of ownership, and buy yourself kit. You can put just about any engine in it then.
Look at how many flat plane crank engines there are out there, avaibale in production cars. A Ferrari V8 from the same era will require similar care and maintenance, and ultimately rebuild if its done a decent mileage.
I dont get it really. If people want to build a track car etc go for it, otherwise just sell the Cerb to someone who'll appreciate it and take on the cost of ownership, and buy yourself kit. You can put just about any engine in it then.
I can't deny that you may find a buyer for a converted car.
If you had to do it, I think the LS is the far better thing to do as it's a much better understood conversion.
To be brutally honest, and taking a different slant on some of the above posts about TVR engine reliability, it would be someone with cotton wool between his ears who bought a converted Cerbera perceiving that any TVR running costs issues had been ironed out. The engine is the least of your worries running a Cerbera for any length of time. The whole car needs constant care and attention. The TVR engines, which gained huge press and praise when they were released, typically just need a service every 6,000 miles. Your hypothetical buyer, if he did infact thing the AMG engine had "sorted out" a Cerbera running costs wise would mark himself out as a mush-brained t*t who knows nothing about Cerberas for turning up believing that.
Your P100 thing I can't really see the relevance of. The buyer apparently just wanted something a bit different. It's still just a Sierra pickup truck at the end of the day. I drove through Aberdeen yesterday and was sat at a red light and heard a group of young 20-somethings pointing out the Cerb and saying "Hey those things are f***ing rapid..." - my point being that anyone who would even consider a Cerbera at all already knows what it is. Some may believe it's a hard-top Chimaera as I admit I initially did when I first started researching which TVR I wanted, but I don't believe may people get as far as handing over a 5-figure sum of money either from savings or having arranged personal finance (since they're too old to walk on to a forecourt, leave a deposit and set up a 4-year HP agreement with Blackhorse) without having read up on this slightly scary car they're looking in to.
Where all this is leading to is that I perceive that Cerberas can be slow to sell a lot of the time, whilst waiting for the right buyer with deep enough pockets and big enough balls to come along. Your hypothetical customer will either be someone who buys without researching and thus be bitterly disappointed to later find out the AMG engine swap doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the average running costs but he doesn't "get" all the inter-engine banter between AJP8 and Speed Six owners nor indeed know what they're talking about - or it's a one-in-a-billion buyer who really likes everything about Cerberas but would prefer one with a crossplane V8.
I'm sorry, but I just can't see it happening any time soon or for a good price.
If you had to do it, I think the LS is the far better thing to do as it's a much better understood conversion.
To be brutally honest, and taking a different slant on some of the above posts about TVR engine reliability, it would be someone with cotton wool between his ears who bought a converted Cerbera perceiving that any TVR running costs issues had been ironed out. The engine is the least of your worries running a Cerbera for any length of time. The whole car needs constant care and attention. The TVR engines, which gained huge press and praise when they were released, typically just need a service every 6,000 miles. Your hypothetical buyer, if he did infact thing the AMG engine had "sorted out" a Cerbera running costs wise would mark himself out as a mush-brained t*t who knows nothing about Cerberas for turning up believing that.
Your P100 thing I can't really see the relevance of. The buyer apparently just wanted something a bit different. It's still just a Sierra pickup truck at the end of the day. I drove through Aberdeen yesterday and was sat at a red light and heard a group of young 20-somethings pointing out the Cerb and saying "Hey those things are f***ing rapid..." - my point being that anyone who would even consider a Cerbera at all already knows what it is. Some may believe it's a hard-top Chimaera as I admit I initially did when I first started researching which TVR I wanted, but I don't believe may people get as far as handing over a 5-figure sum of money either from savings or having arranged personal finance (since they're too old to walk on to a forecourt, leave a deposit and set up a 4-year HP agreement with Blackhorse) without having read up on this slightly scary car they're looking in to.
Where all this is leading to is that I perceive that Cerberas can be slow to sell a lot of the time, whilst waiting for the right buyer with deep enough pockets and big enough balls to come along. Your hypothetical customer will either be someone who buys without researching and thus be bitterly disappointed to later find out the AMG engine swap doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the average running costs but he doesn't "get" all the inter-engine banter between AJP8 and Speed Six owners nor indeed know what they're talking about - or it's a one-in-a-billion buyer who really likes everything about Cerberas but would prefer one with a crossplane V8.
I'm sorry, but I just can't see it happening any time soon or for a good price.
jamieduff1981 said:
To be brutally honest, and taking a different slant on some of the above posts about TVR engine reliability, it would be someone with cotton wool between his ears who bought a converted Cerbera perceiving that any TVR running costs issues had been ironed out. The engine is the least of your worries running a Cerbera for any length of time.
Spot on, this. Everyone should do whatever makes them happy, but I can't quite get my head around the number of TVR folk trying to fix the one thing that isn't broken...Personally if I woned a Cerbera and wanted to make it more useable/enjoyable I would mainly turn my attention to:
- Electrics/electronics
- Engine bay heat management (& chassis protection/top chassis rails)
- Suspension set up and wheel geometry
Engine? As long as the crank's a good'un and it's been properly maintained...
I love TVR's and mine is my 3rd one, but if you want something REALLY rapid then an AJP/Six is just not big enough, there is no substitute for cubes.
Mines got a huge roucous revvy and torquey engine in, and still frightens me when i find i am alone on the road and let the thing go, and its a challenging drive on track, when we data logged it, it was around 19secs to 190mph.
I can totally understand wanting to make the best of what is in there, and i have been in 4.5 Cerbs, but for me there was something missing...
Just sticking up for the modders!
Mines got a huge roucous revvy and torquey engine in, and still frightens me when i find i am alone on the road and let the thing go, and its a challenging drive on track, when we data logged it, it was around 19secs to 190mph.
I can totally understand wanting to make the best of what is in there, and i have been in 4.5 Cerbs, but for me there was something missing...
Just sticking up for the modders!
spitfire4v8 said:
gruffalo said:
N7GTX said:
....The cost is around £7,000 ....
That is less than the parts bill on my engine alone for the 4.7 conversion.900T-R said:
Engine? As long as the crank's a good'un and it's been properly maintained...
I agree Eric and what do you do when your inlet valve stems are stretched beyond serviceable limits ?The point of this article was everything wears out
and this gives owners another option.
It's not meant as a suggestion.
All the posts that contain "I don't see why...." are personal comments (I hope) on what they would do when the inevitable comes
but
this gives other, more open-minded, peeps a practical and previously unknown option.
Mr. Ignorance-is-not-bliss
leerdam23 said:
spitfire4v8 said:
gruffalo said:
N7GTX said:
....The cost is around £7,000 ....
That is less than the parts bill on my engine alone for the 4.7 conversion.
Brummmie said:
I love TVR's and mine is my 3rd one, but if you want something REALLY rapid then an AJP/Six is just not big enough, there is no substitute for cubes.
Mines got a huge roucous revvy and torquey engine in, and still frightens me when i find i am alone on the road and let the thing go, and its a challenging drive on track, when we data logged it, it was around 19secs to 190mph.
I can totally understand wanting to make the best of what is in there, and i have been in 4.5 Cerbs, but for me there was something missing...
Just sticking up for the modders!
I can understand why you've done your conversion Paul - really I do. If you want a much faster car then yes the engine is a restriction. I'm sure you'll agree it doesn't make a massive difference to the ongoing running costs or reliability of the car though.Mines got a huge roucous revvy and torquey engine in, and still frightens me when i find i am alone on the road and let the thing go, and its a challenging drive on track, when we data logged it, it was around 19secs to 190mph.
I can totally understand wanting to make the best of what is in there, and i have been in 4.5 Cerbs, but for me there was something missing...
Just sticking up for the modders!
You've done your conversion for the right reason. Changing the engine to make it a reliable daily driver is unlikely to make much difference at all to the annual spend nor the car's up-time/down-time over the course of a year. Most of the car's 'features' that add up to what we spend time and money on are still there after the engine (and even gearbox) have been changed. The reliability problem isn't the engine, but everything else.
spitfire4v8 said:
leerdam23 said:
spitfire4v8 said:
gruffalo said:
N7GTX said:
....The cost is around £7,000 ....
That is less than the parts bill on my engine alone for the 4.7 conversion.expensive due to full steel bottom end, I could have just done pistons and liners but went the whole hog.
Crank £2350, Rods £1800 piston and liners £1800, injectors head gaskets new lightened flywheel and that is just the start of the list
It should be fun when finished.
said.../quote
Not APM.
expensive due to full steel bottom end, I could have just done pistons and liners but went the whole hog.
Crank £2350, Rods £1800 piston and liners £1800, injectors head gaskets new lightened flywheel and that is just the start of the list
It should be fun when finished.
[/quote]
So, is it TVR Power?
Not APM.
expensive due to full steel bottom end, I could have just done pistons and liners but went the whole hog.
Crank £2350, Rods £1800 piston and liners £1800, injectors head gaskets new lightened flywheel and that is just the start of the list
It should be fun when finished.
[/quote]
So, is it TVR Power?
Edited by leerdam23 on Thursday 23 January 18:05
Edited by leerdam23 on Thursday 23 January 18:06
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