Adaptives thread... again
Discussion
Hi everyone, I recieved my refurb Intakes from TVR power and I'm now trying to set the engine.
I have an airflowmeter, my car is modded with the short induction from Joolz and with the chip.
First I removed the throttle linkage bar and I set the T.Pots at 15.2 each, then I put back the throttle linkage and played with it (for about 10min) to have same t.pots reading and no play.
I set the idle screw in order to have 19% reading in both banks.
Then I started the engine and let it warm. When the engine reach à good 60degres I checked the adaptives and find that they are at the Rich limit (25/28) both bank equal.
I checked with the afm and both banks at about 7 ( except one cylinder, the one with the mastervac hose, at 5 don't know why). What should I do to have them at zero ?
I tried puting the T.pots at 18, and same thing happened, I tried reseting the adaptives maps and that make no difference.
I'm lost, any help would be welcome.
Idle is at about 1000-1100 which is high from my opinion.
Update: I tried with the old unmodded chip on the ECU, the car was totally different, shaking like an old chevy...
Will try tomorrow with another ECU that I have in spare.
I have an airflowmeter, my car is modded with the short induction from Joolz and with the chip.
First I removed the throttle linkage bar and I set the T.Pots at 15.2 each, then I put back the throttle linkage and played with it (for about 10min) to have same t.pots reading and no play.
I set the idle screw in order to have 19% reading in both banks.
Then I started the engine and let it warm. When the engine reach à good 60degres I checked the adaptives and find that they are at the Rich limit (25/28) both bank equal.
I checked with the afm and both banks at about 7 ( except one cylinder, the one with the mastervac hose, at 5 don't know why). What should I do to have them at zero ?
I tried puting the T.pots at 18, and same thing happened, I tried reseting the adaptives maps and that make no difference.
I'm lost, any help would be welcome.
Idle is at about 1000-1100 which is high from my opinion.
Update: I tried with the old unmodded chip on the ECU, the car was totally different, shaking like an old chevy...
Will try tomorrow with another ECU that I have in spare.
Edited by Snake278 on Tuesday 15th April 20:25
This is taken from the manual but some say it may be out of date. However I think it will get you close to where you need to be.
1. Disconnect throttle rod.
2. Ensure butterflies are shut.
3. Adjust throttle pots to 15%(+/- 0.2%).
4. Refit throttle rod without disturbing the throttle pot readings (it took me longer than 10 mins lol)
5. Screw throttle stop screw until the throttle pots read 19%.
6. Start and warm up. Idle speed should be around 950 rpm.
7. Measure air flow on all cylinders. This is where there is a difference as to the correct value. The manual says 5. Some say 5.5.
8. Adjust the link rod to get both banks the same and lock the nuts.
9. Adjust the throttle stop screw until you get 950 rpm.
10. The adaptives should be between 0 and 10%.
11. Adjust each throttle pot to adjust the adaptives.
12. Increasing the the throttle pot % = a decrease in the adaptive.
13. Adaptive values above +/- 15% indicate a fault elsewhere.
If you open up the HELP tab there is a lot of info on what the readings mean.
The lambdas reading 0.01v show the mixture is too lean which I think is being caused by the airflow at 7. If you close them down to 5.5 then recheck you should find they start to switch between 0.001 and 1.5v or you can watch them on the graph.
I found that after getting somewhere close, I stopped the engine (ignition on again) then cleared the adaptives and the fault codes, went for a blast and it was good.
Good luck.
1. Disconnect throttle rod.
2. Ensure butterflies are shut.
3. Adjust throttle pots to 15%(+/- 0.2%).
4. Refit throttle rod without disturbing the throttle pot readings (it took me longer than 10 mins lol)
5. Screw throttle stop screw until the throttle pots read 19%.
6. Start and warm up. Idle speed should be around 950 rpm.
7. Measure air flow on all cylinders. This is where there is a difference as to the correct value. The manual says 5. Some say 5.5.
8. Adjust the link rod to get both banks the same and lock the nuts.
9. Adjust the throttle stop screw until you get 950 rpm.
10. The adaptives should be between 0 and 10%.
11. Adjust each throttle pot to adjust the adaptives.
12. Increasing the the throttle pot % = a decrease in the adaptive.
13. Adaptive values above +/- 15% indicate a fault elsewhere.
If you open up the HELP tab there is a lot of info on what the readings mean.
The lambdas reading 0.01v show the mixture is too lean which I think is being caused by the airflow at 7. If you close them down to 5.5 then recheck you should find they start to switch between 0.001 and 1.5v or you can watch them on the graph.
I found that after getting somewhere close, I stopped the engine (ignition on again) then cleared the adaptives and the fault codes, went for a blast and it was good.
Good luck.
That is the problem I think, no matter what I try the rpm fix itself at 1100, even 1300 with the unmodded ecu chip (I only suceed to acheive a 900rpm once and the car stall about 5sec later)
I don't see another way too lower tickrate other than lowering the T.Pots value, which don't change my adaptatives value.
I will see tomorrow, I really hope my other ECU will fix it but I don't know the risk of running the car with the original chip and short induction.
What exactly do the cooling mod chip ?
I don't see another way too lower tickrate other than lowering the T.Pots value, which don't change my adaptatives value.
I will see tomorrow, I really hope my other ECU will fix it but I don't know the risk of running the car with the original chip and short induction.
What exactly do the cooling mod chip ?
the cooling changes just lower the fan temps, and stop the fans working on a hot re-start so more power goes to the starter motor. makes no change to the idle speed.
Sounds like your throttle bodies are passing too much air, if you cannot get the tickover down any lower than 1100. 7 kg/hour is too high.
Sounds like your throttle bodies are passing too much air, if you cannot get the tickover down any lower than 1100. 7 kg/hour is too high.
Mine runs OK and everything checks out OK (airflow balanced, adaptives all good ) but I have never been able to get the tickover below 1000rpm even with the link rod disconnected so i wouldn't worry too much. I tried measuring the butterfly clearances for each port and I think the variation port to port is enough to keep the tickover up, perhaps my throttle rods are too worn ? Anyway it doesn't worry me as it all seems to run well.
Forget anything about setting up you engine and concentrate on why you can't get your tickover down. There is really no point in going any further than that at the moment. Without the throttle stops you should pretty much be able to stall the engine by closing your butterflies.
The airflow meter was a waste of time for me. I pretty much never used it.
Start possibly by allowng the thottle stop to completely close. Then with your engine idling at 1100 and you intakes off go across your intakes and pretty much block them off with a lump of wood. Ajps will idle with a single cylinder completely blocked, and use this method to find the odd one or odd few out. It was more accurate than an airflow meter for me.
Once you can pretty much stall the engine by closing the butterflies, then you can wind out the thottle stop. If you can't, air is getting in somewhere else
However I suppose everyone has their different methods but the belt and braces seem to work for me.
The airflow meter was a waste of time for me. I pretty much never used it.
Start possibly by allowng the thottle stop to completely close. Then with your engine idling at 1100 and you intakes off go across your intakes and pretty much block them off with a lump of wood. Ajps will idle with a single cylinder completely blocked, and use this method to find the odd one or odd few out. It was more accurate than an airflow meter for me.
Once you can pretty much stall the engine by closing the butterflies, then you can wind out the thottle stop. If you can't, air is getting in somewhere else
However I suppose everyone has their different methods but the belt and braces seem to work for me.
Great! thanks for all these answers, I will try that tomorrow (in a place without neighbours this time)!
After a few hours of try today I'm at the exact same point that yesterday.
I suceed in getting a very good 900rpm and 0/5% adaptives for a few minutes and AFM showing 5~6 on every cylinders, then the engine goes to 1100 and stayed there with adaptives at 20/20 and AFM at 7~7.5.
I strongly suspect my manifolds to be cracked (at least one of them), I guess this can alter my adaptives, but can it mess things with throttle ?
I already tried to start the engine with both butterflies fully closed and link rod off but the engine stall after 5sec.
After a few hours of try today I'm at the exact same point that yesterday.
I suceed in getting a very good 900rpm and 0/5% adaptives for a few minutes and AFM showing 5~6 on every cylinders, then the engine goes to 1100 and stayed there with adaptives at 20/20 and AFM at 7~7.5.
I strongly suspect my manifolds to be cracked (at least one of them), I guess this can alter my adaptives, but can it mess things with throttle ?
I already tried to start the engine with both butterflies fully closed and link rod off but the engine stall after 5sec.
Well after three days of setting, I give up, I found a setting that is good for driving and stayed that way even with at hot engine, 1100rpm and adaptives totally wrong at idle.
Today I discovered that a silent Cerbera exhaust can still give you a headach if you listen to it more than 2 hours! But more importantly I found that setting up an AJP Engine is clearly much more complicated than what I expected, every millimeter in the link rod can make the car going from 1100rpm to stall, every % of difference in the T.pots make a missfire.
Maybe with a really healthy engine its easy, but on one with 80K miles it start to be complicated.
A shame I have to cross a sea to find an AJP specialist.
Thank you all for your help.
Today I discovered that a silent Cerbera exhaust can still give you a headach if you listen to it more than 2 hours! But more importantly I found that setting up an AJP Engine is clearly much more complicated than what I expected, every millimeter in the link rod can make the car going from 1100rpm to stall, every % of difference in the T.pots make a missfire.
Maybe with a really healthy engine its easy, but on one with 80K miles it start to be complicated.
A shame I have to cross a sea to find an AJP specialist.
Thank you all for your help.
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