PAS woodruff key and flange

[Jimm218]

Hi guys,

So my power steering has failed. I have removed the pump and discovered that the woodruff key is no more. Can anyone tell me what size the woodruff key is? Pretty sure my car is an early 4.2 but the size of both designs would help as I'm not sure which at this stage. Also the round flange plate that is bolted on to the triangular end of the pump has been damaged by the shattered woodruff key. Anyone know where I can get one?

Thanks in advance.

[Jimm218]

Further inspection shows that the shaft is shafted.

So the electric pump from the saxo...

I have seen that both versions of the pump have been used. With and without the external reservoir.

My question is how to plumb it in? Is it done with the standard connections and just bolt the two pipes to the correct outlets?

Those that have done it could you post some pictures?

Thanks

[ukkid35]

Not sure whether you've see this thread

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=22&...

Can you post a photo of the damage on yours?

[Jimm218]

Hi Paul,

I saw that thread and it helped me get the old pump out. I've been searching and have struggled to find out how the electric pumps are plumbed in.

Below are a couple of photos of the shaft. I will get some of the flange on the pump when I'm back in the garage.





I did find a small grub screw in the flange. Not the size of the one in the picture in the other thread. It looks like it is forming a stop rather than bolting into the shaft. I doubt I could do that mod with the engine in place.

[ukkid35]

That looks like a perfect candidate for the Grub Screw Fix, as you've already removed the part you need to modify. The shaft can be left as-is. But give Joolz a call to double check that I haven't misunderstood.

[Jimm218]

Interesting. I have access to a machine shop so fitting a grub screw to the outer flange is easy enough. Although I would expect the shaft would need to have at least a hole put into it and preferably a thread to hold it all together. Not sure how you would get a drill down there to drill the shaft?

Does someone have contact details for Jools?

[jackwibble]

[e-mail]
That will get you to Jools

[Superjuiced]

I bought mine with the PAS installed so can't take credit for the conversion but am replacing the saxo pump. The pump itself sits above the power steering rack just slightly in front of the fluid inlet/outlet, mine is bolted to chassis with a seperate reservoir behind it. Here is a pic of the pump I'm replacing. I wouldn't go back to mechanical as this is way easier to maintain although the only downside is no cooler so it can get a little sticky on heavy use. I'm sure it would be simple to get some cooling to it.

If you would like I can take some pics of the new one and installation.

[Jimm218]

Thanks for Jools' detail and the pic.

Superjuiced could you describe the fluid circuit? The original circuit was High pressure side of the pump to rack, rack to resivoir, res to low pressure side of the pump.

Does yours still have the same circuit with the extra res off of the pump with a single hose. So it works like an expansion tank?

That is how I think it would be done but don't want to end up having to take it all apart again. I'm supposed to be taking the car to the continent at the end of the month.

[FarmyardPants]

Jimm218 said:

Interesting. I have access to a machine shop so fitting a grub screw to the outer flange is easy enough. Although I would expect the shaft would need to have at least a hole put into it and preferably a thread to hold it all together. Not sure how you would get a drill down there to drill the shaft?

Does someone have contact details for Jools?

I was told the shaft is hardened steel and you'd have a hard time drilling a hole in it even if you had it on the bench.

[ukkid35]

FarmyardPants said:

I was told the shaft is hardened steel and you'd have a hard time drilling a hole in it even if you had it on the bench.

Joolz would do the mod without disturbing the shaft, that was the whole point of the in-situ fix.

[FarmyardPants]

ukkid35 said:

FarmyardPants said:

I was told the shaft is hardened steel and you'd have a hard time drilling a hole in it even if you had it on the bench.

Joolz would do the mod without disturbing the shaft, that was the whole point of the in-situ fix.

Fair enough but I was responding to this:

"Although I would expect the shaft would need to have at least a hole put into it and preferably a thread to hold it all together."

[Superjuiced]

Jim, I'm waiting on my new pump and hoses. as soon as they are back I'll send a few pics and details your way.

[ukkid35]

FarmyardPants said:

Fair enough but I was responding to this:

"Although I would expect the shaft would need to have at least a hole put into it and preferably a thread to hold it all together."

Ah - get you now.

[Jimm218]

Thanks everyone.

I had thought that the shaft would be hardened and be a nightmare to drill. I'll try and find out if Joolz would then drive the grub screw into the key way or if it is there to hold the shaft in position better.

My pump flange now has two grub screws fitted and I am going to try this before going electric as it has cost me nothing. Just need to get hold of a woodruff key now.

I will post some pictures and my method as I go through the process.

Oh and I got the pump out without lifting the engine off the mount.

[ukkid35]

I wasn't expecting to have to do this exact repair myself so soon after posting, but this happened on Friday



And after filling the engine bay and undertray with gravel I had no power steering due to this



Fortunately it's all come apart without too much drama



All I need to do is replace the grub screw and all should be well again

[ukkid35]

Did you ever determine the exact size of the Woodruff key?

After several attempts I have managed to repair mine using a new grub screw, but the location where it has been fitted is far from perfect, meaning the dog clutch(?) is not fully closed. The auxiliary shaft is not damaged on mine so I'm intending to fit a new key instead. I'm just hoping the grub screw lasts until I get back from DN10 next week.

[Jimm218]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this. I've been out of the country.

I will finish my write up later but to answer the question about the woodruff key it is 3mm wide but I'm not sure on length. Paul I ordered a set an was sent two sets by mistake. I could post a set to you if that would help.

[ukkid35]

I will be taking mine apart again in a couple of weeks as I will be fitting a new Woodruff key, which I believe to be 3mm x 6.5mm. However I've just managed 1,200 miles to DN10 and back using a temporary Woodruff key that I fashioned out of three 1mm mild steel washers and some superglue. Fortunately the aux shaft in mine is not particularly damaged, so that option was open to me. The small 3/16" grub screw in my car was not sufficient due to it's location, in fact it was probably used to prevent lateral movement. The larger more centrally located grub screw shown in other pictures probably behaves very differently. Hopefully things will be clearer when I post some pics.

[Jimm218]

That makes sense to me Paul. I need to put up some pictures myself.

Would you like me to post you a suitable size woodruff key or are you sorted? I used some Loctite jointing compound when I put mine back together apparently it is very effective.